HillRider

I currently have two bikes with 2006 Campy Ergopower 10-speed brifters, one Chorus and one Record (AFAIK, identical except for decals and price). These are the older pre-QS brifters that still use the older G-springs, etc. So far they are working well but with 21,000 miles on one set and 25,000 miles on the other, they will have to require rebuilding sometime in the not too distant future.

Apparently, repair parts are still available but Campy no longer lists them in their spare parts catalog so it's only a matter of time before these can't be fixed. So, to maintain my 10-speed drivetrains, I may need new shifters when these finally go south for good and I don't want to spend a fortune upgrading to 11-speed, particularly since i have a triple crank and these are no longer in Campy's lexicon. Also, I don't want to buy one or two sets of the NOS 10-speed "Ultrashift" levers still available as I don't want to stockpile these for who knows how long.

So, my question is about the Centaur "Powershift" 10-speed levers now available. Assuming Campy offers 10-speed brifters in Veloce or above for the forseeable future, despite the one-upshift-at-a-time "feature", are these decent brifters? That one-shift limitation isn't a show stopper to me as I've used STI's for tens of thousands of miles and never found it a problem. The multiple upshifts my current brifters have is nice but certainly not essential. So, other than that, are the Powershift levers OK?

Homebrew01

HillRider asking a question ?


I haven't used Powershift. I have 2010 Centaur that works quite well. Not sure how different they are other than the clicks, but I'm happy with mine.

HillRider

Happens to everyone eventually.

My only experience with Campy stuff so far is the '06 brifters I mentioned above so I'm trying to see what's out there now that won't break the bank.

Steve530

I have 2007 Centaur QS shifters which I think work fine. I think they work much like the new PowerShift shifters.

That said, I think it's unfortunate that Campy seems to be going away from the Ultrashift design that allows multiple shifts. That distinguished Campy from Shimano and SRAM.

Personally, I'm just going to wait to see what Campy comes up with before I replace anything.

DaveSSS 

I'd read-up on how the powershift lever works with a triple FD. It sure won't work like the 2006 model or an ultrashift model that has 6 clicks available to operate a triple FD. I suspect the the trim function would be very limited. It only takes a 1-click dump to shift from the big ring to the middle ring and another to shift to the little ring.

If you buy powershift levers, they must be the triple version, not the double crank model.

https://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/gro...x3_catid_8.jsp

HillRider

I originally bought 2007 Centaur levers to use on my otherwise all-Shimano bike and was dismayed to find the front shifting was not the multiple-click type I had on my '06 chorus brifters so they went back. I did find a set of NOS '06 Record Ergos that i'm now using.

It's too bad the Powershift levers are still so limited for front shifting and I suspect the 10x3 levers DaveSSS linked to are still too coarse in their trim steps. I too am going to wait until I'm compelled to replace my current levers.

ultraman6970

The only big difference w/o taking in consideration functionality (that you dont care) is the lever shape. The new shape is more comfortable than the old one, besides that pretty much power shift should be ok 4'ya!

HillRider

The lever shape is immeterial at this point, the functionality is very much the issue. I'm not particularly concerned about one-at-a-time upshifting in the rear. However, I'm quite concerned about front shifting and if it's compatible with a triple crank and how agnostic it is to crank make and model. The older Ergo brifters I have are very versatile and I don't want to give that up.

The problem with Ultrashift levers that have the desired front shifting is that they are now all 11-speed.

Steve530

I can't figure out why Campy is doing this. It's surely not an upgrade. It appears that the technology is bubling up from the lower cost groups to the higher cost groups, instead of the trickle down that happened in the past. Maybe they just plan to stop developing the mechanical shifters since the electronic shifting is now available. (Note that the electronic shift groups are also called Powershift.) In that case the Ultrashift groups will become Powershift groups soon.

But if they don't sort it out when I need to replace my shifters, I'll probably go with SRAM.

Homebrew01

I bought an extra set of 2010 Centaur shifters to avoid all this nonsense.

Steve530

Good idea. Unfortunately, that is no longer an option. At least, I've not found a set for sale.

Homebrew01

I've heard 2010 Veloce are still available ... from Shinybikes ?

Drew Eckhardt 

To introduced differentiation between groups and steer buyers into more expensive products without being worse than the competition's comparably priced options.

Let me enumerate the non-cosmetic differences between shifters as of late 2009 (following the running change putting bearings on the lower level shifter main pivots and the 10 speed index cam fix). They were identical from Veloce through Super Record except:

- Centaur had a carbon brake blade option which saved 21g
- Athena added the 11 speed index cam but returned the alloy brake lever
- Chorus added back the carbon brake blade
- Super Record had lighter rear ratchets which save 7g for the pair

Even the Veloce and Centaur alloy levers (358g) weighed less than Shimano's 2009 7900 Dura-Ace levers (379 claimed, 368 actual) and ran the same cog count (10).

If you don't want the extra cog (39x25 or 34x23 is enough to get a fit rider over everything in the Colorado Rockies spinning up most of it, many riders don't care about the 17-19 cog gap which goes with 12-25, those that do many are happy with 13-26) you gained almost nothing (carbon brake levers feel better in cool weather) by buying more than Veloce and still beat Shimano's best.

Here's the situation in 2013:

- Only Chorus and better are close to the functionality of 1992 ergo levers
- If you're a weight weenie only Chorus and above have carbon brake levers (Centaur has an alloy wrapped in carbon option).

One cog smaller instead of five is a huge deal especially with a compact crank (after running out of larger cogs on the big ring it's a pair of simultaneous lever shoves to arrive at the next gear which is five cogs away with a tight cassettes).

I'd buy Chorus and 11 cogs if that's what it took and am sure plenty of other riders would too. Cassettes would run $105 not $45 (assuming you're not stupid enough to insist on "buying American" when it comes to Italian bicycle components) although it'd be worth it ($100 every four chains and 20,000 miles is not a big deal).

Used Campagnolo parts which aren't crippled like SRAM/Shimano and don't have moving brake levers like Shimano are still available.

HillRider

Sure, a 39 or even a 42x25 or 26 will, and has, get me up the climbs I've done in the Rockies but not those in West Virginia, western Maryland or even a couple of miles from my house. How about 20%+ hills? Lots of them. Then there's the age problem. I'm 70.

That's why I'm insistentant on a triple and want a front shifter that handles one well. My current '06 Ergo brifters do and I'd like to have something current that's accommodatinging as they are.

Drew Eckhardt 

They seem to have sold out.

Total cycling has Veloce Ultrashift levers with their E-bay listing saying "2010"

https://www.totalcycling.com/a-z/shif...VELOCE_09.html

I upgraded to 10 cogs with a set of Centaur levers before the supply ran out and bought a pair of the Total Cycling Veloce levers as spares ($125, about $140 shipped) where the net cost is $25/side plus shipping (they come with a $45 cable set and $30 pair of hoods that you'll be buying eventually as they wear out). Campagnolo sells spares for $90 a side and may or may not still have them when you want one.

Drew Eckhardt 

1. While I like my triple too (middle aged spread, tight gears, and no ADHD shifting like with a compact where I changed rings and moved five cogs any time I dropped below 17 MPH on the big ring or exceeded 19 MPH on the small) we're not most of the market (count the triples in SRAM's lineup).

2. We'd still be fine with a current Campagnolo 3x11 or 3x10 setup where a lack of trim options could be accommodated by an appropriate front derailleur cage shape and ratio exactly matched to the derailleur.

3. Those of us riding the same 1996 frame and who'd still be running the same 1996 shifters and derailleurs if Campagnolo hadn't discontinued the small parts are not the target market.

Personally I'd buy a bunch of G-spring pairs, about the same number of right spring carriers, one or two thumb lever return springs, and one or two front return springs for your existing right lever before the supply dries up (they're no longer listed as spares). A left pair of G-springs and carrier couldn't hurt although I don't think I ever managed to wear either out.

The little spring on my right front lever failed shortly after the big front spring failed due to fatigue, and that was only available as part of the expensive paddle assembly which is no longer available.

I only had to make one front lever and one thumb spring replacement before it was a lost cause; although I got a premature brake return spring failure after a replacement so having an extra of each couldn't hurt anything.

cs1

How come Campy says the standard Power Torque works for a triple or double?

https://www.campagnolo.com/jsp/en/gro...10_catid_2.jsp

DaveSSS 

Can't say if that's accurate or not. It makes no sense to sell a triple-specific shifter, if the standard model can do the same thing. Campy is known for errors in their literature. The only way to know is to buy a pair and find out. To operate a triple, you need about .6 inch or 15mm of cable pull and you need three pulls of at least .2 inch each. Ultrashift levers have 6 clicks and each one pulls about .1 inch. I think I measured a total pull of about .65 inch. The shift from the little ring to the middle ring requires the most cable pull. With pre-2009 shifters that had 12 clicks, it takes 7 to operate a triple. The shift from the little ring to the middle ring requires the maximum 5-click sweep of the left finger lever, to make the shift, followed by one click of the thumb button to move the cage back to the left a bit.

rdtompki

These threads always make me very nervous. I've got Campy Chorus on both tandem and single marked QS Micron. I do have a spare set, but I'd be sunk without the large number of FD clicks, at least 9. My tandem is a quad and the single is getting converted to a triple. It doesn't sound like there is a current production equivalent. Might be time to buy a few more spare internal parts.

Fallback position would be to convert the tandem to a triple. I already have a Campy triple FD on the tandem which works extremely well with the quad chainrings. Truth is we only ride the tandem 3000 miles or so per year so we're not likely to wear anything out, although I did manage to break my LH campy shift lever about a year ago.

DaveSSS 

None of the current left shift levers could operate a quad crankset, if you need 9 clicks of cable pull, or much more than .6 inch. I have found triple crank users who thought that it required a double swing of the left finger lever to make the little ring to middle ring shift on a triple, but that's a setup error, with too little cable tension. The extra clicks are just taking up cable slack.

The QS feature on the shifter is a change to the front rachet that reduces the amount of dead travel on the finger lever. Earlier models had more finger lever travel, that resulted in no cable pull.