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Are Cat 1 racers considered pros?

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Are Cat 1 racers considered pros?

Old 08-25-09, 11:10 AM
  #51  
Creakyknees
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I seem to recall racing in the mid 80s with about 25k license holders, so it seems the proportion has increased.
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Old 08-25-09, 11:52 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by ZeCanon View Post
Around here it is notoriously more difficult to get the 1 upgrade than any other. They made me provide a host of extra info on the races (to make sure they met distance and field size requirements) and since I had exactly 30 points they also asks for a coaches recommendation. Not sure if it is the same elsewhere though.

I wonder how many of those 1700 are really active?
The team president of my team back home was a pro back in the 70s and early 80s, then was a directeur for Wheaties. Pretty sure he's still a Cat 1, but the only time I ever see him race is in the local ABR races at the end of the season.
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Old 08-25-09, 12:08 PM
  #53  
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Additional info for you.

Youngest Cat 1- 17 years old (1)
18-23 years old- 190
24-29 364
30-34 300
35-39 425
40-44 297
45-49 149
50-54 39
55-59 13
60-64 3
Oldest Cat 1 - 78 years old (1)
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Old 08-25-09, 12:13 PM
  #54  
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Are those numbers for active licenses? I mean, people who actually registered for a license in 2009?
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Old 08-25-09, 01:37 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by umd View Post
Are those numbers for active licenses? I mean, people who actually registered for a license in 2009?
Correct. (I think it's correct as of last Thursday)
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Old 08-25-09, 02:35 PM
  #56  
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So i'm confused here. seems like we have some cat 1's from earlier years who think current cat 1's aren't legit?

seems to me that regardless of where you are, it's extremely difficult to get the cat 1 upgrade.

whether the proportion has changed or not, i think it's folly to believe that current cat 1 upgrades are less legit because there isn't a forced ranking like the bygone days. Besides, during those bygone days, our currently fringe sport had an even shallower talent pool.

So all cat 1's regardless of era have rightfully earned their status.

And let's not forget, IMHO, given the sports hierarchy in America, the best (non-GC type) bike rider in U.S. history has probably never even contemplated racing bikes. Neither has the best soccer player ever kicked a ball.
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Old 08-25-09, 03:47 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by SteelerHoo View Post
So i'm confused here. seems like we have some cat 1's from earlier years who think current cat 1's aren't legit?


So all cat 1's regardless of era have rightfully earned their status.
Nope, you are wrong. There are a many of cat1's that never earned that status. I will not name anyone in particular, but have at least 10 names right off the top of my head.
No joke.
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Old 07-19-20, 06:31 PM
  #58  
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I know this is an old thread, but I have an interesting take on this. Technically, I was a pro for nearly 5 years. However, when I raced BMX I came in 2nd and Third a lot. I rode with a Cat 1 racer and he dropped me like I was hot.

How could I have possibly been a pro, yet I made a living?
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Old 07-19-20, 10:50 PM
  #59  
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USA Pro is the new Cat 1. You pay money, you get pro (if you are good enough). Was Lance more than a Cat 2?
I'm rather harsh, but if the income from cycling is not the sole means of supporting yourself and family - you are not a pro, regardless of what the license says.
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Old 07-20-20, 09:34 AM
  #60  
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I'm a 1, but sadly the free socks and gels I get for being such a badass have yet to translate into mortgage payments. Cat 1 is not pro. Pro in the US is barely pro depending on your definition.

Most races around here are P/1/2/3. Generally not too many 3's race that category, but a few do. Occasionally just P/1/2, state championships, etc. We have (had, cancelled for 2020) a USA crit here, that one has a 1/2/3 race and a P/1 race with P/1 being the "real" one.
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Old 07-20-20, 12:20 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by RadDog View Post
I know this is an old thread, but I have an interesting take on this. Technically, I was a pro for nearly 5 years. However, when I raced BMX I came in 2nd and Third a lot. I rode with a Cat 1 racer and he dropped me like I was hot.

How could I have possibly been a pro, yet I made a living?
What?
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Old 07-20-20, 01:50 PM
  #62  
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Stay in school children.
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Old 07-20-20, 03:08 PM
  #63  
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Man some good old names in this one. YMCA, ZeCanon, waterrockets...
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Old 07-20-20, 07:14 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
What?
I made a decent living riding a bike.

I was a bike messenger in San Francisco for 5 years....this was during the 80's before email/Internet when businesses needed lightening fast deliveries for projects that were under time pressure.

3 or 4 died each year. Everyone wanted to be a messenger, but few made it. The workload was brutal if you wanted to make good money.

I started working for one of the big bike messenger companies making $50 a day. However, my reputation for speed eventually resulted in me making more than $170 a day, a lot of money at the time.


I was a mediocre BMX and road racer, but I had a unique set of skills that made me one of the fastest messengers in the city. The problem was most messenger companies wanted volume, medium speed for most deliveries and short distances. Also, you only got 40% of the delivery charge (called a tag) and had to pay fees back to the company.

We had a competition every year, and one of them was the fastest messenger to do a delivery from one end of San Francisco to the next. I won in 8 minutes and 43 seconds in heavy traffic. There was an article in the newspaper about it.

One night I was at a party. A guy who owned a typography company was complaining that he could not get his work out and back fast enough, even though he paid for the most expensive rush delivery (and from a company I had worked for, US Messenger). By the time he called it in it would take an hour or more. I asked what he was looking for. He said "I need it there in 30 minutes." I said "how about 9 minutes," and the next day gave him the article.

The following Monday I started working for him making that delivery nearly 20 times a day. The delivery company charged him $12:50 each time, and workers would get 40%. I got the whole tag.
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Old 07-20-20, 07:52 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by RadDog View Post
I made a decent living riding a bike.
Except you did not make a living racing your bike. Thus, in the context of this thread, you were not a pro. At all.

The messenger gig is an interesting one, though.

Last edited by rubiksoval; 07-20-20 at 08:03 PM.
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Old 07-20-20, 10:15 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Except you did not make a living racing your bike. Thus, in the context of this thread, you were not a pro. At all.

The messenger gig is an interesting one, though.
Actually, we did have a race and I won. The race was covered by the local news media. I made the equivalent of $80k a year in todays dollars. I made that money because I was the fastest, you can call it what you want. I knew many cat 1/2 racers and MTB/BMX champs who were washouts as messengers. Do you think you could make it through one week? I admit...Cat 1 racers are animals, but it is just a different sort of thing. The skillset is sort of a combination between different styles except if you crash you are much more likely to die.

There were more than a million people packed in a tiny place. Cars were bumper to bumper. You spent 8-10 hours a day with one car on your left and one on your right each not more than 2 inches from the ends of your handlebars, going as fast as you can. The pressure is constant and one mistake is too many. You could get doored at any time. And of course you worked in any and all elements. The hills of San Francisco are brutal, even NY City messengers can't hang. That is why SF messengers made more. Only about 15% of the messengers got the "rush" tags but those tags paid more than twice what normal tags paid. If you competed in a sport where the fastest made 4 times more than the slowest I would say it is professional.

Last edited by RadDog; 07-20-20 at 10:26 PM.
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Old 07-21-20, 05:05 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by RadDog View Post
Actually, we did have a race and I won.
Except you did not make a living racing your bike. Thus, in the context of this thread, you were not a pro. At all.

Pizza delivery people are not professional race car drivers. Bike messengers are not professional bike racers.
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Old 07-21-20, 07:48 AM
  #68  
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Rad Dog, I get your point that you made a living riding a bike. But Rubik is correct, you were not a professional bicycle racer, which is the context of this discussion.

Also, as I read your description, I just pictured Kevin Bacon from Quicksilver in my head.
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Old 07-21-20, 12:11 PM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Rad Dog, I get your point that you made a living riding a bike. But Rubik is correct, you were not a professional bicycle racer, which is the context of this discussion.

Also, as I read your description, I just pictured Kevin Bacon from Quicksilver in my head.
LOL...yes, I need to see that movie. The Internet and email, of course, changed everything. 35 years ago you would literally have to put work on a file/disc, and then take it to the customers, and often there was a lot of back and forth. I always respected road racers...even more so than BMX/mountain bikers. However, they rarely made the transition.

But the truth is, probably none of you would have made it through one week on this job. You simply do not posses the requisite mind set and mentality. I knew many broke ass Cat one racers and pros who would have loved to make $80k a year riding their bike, but most did not survive. Road guys were not able to cope with the incessant traffic and pressure, they tended to lose their temper. They were invariably arrogant, just like some of the posters here. Arrogance does not blend well with the streets. Ironically, BMX guys usually did better.

The bottom line is, many, many people would love to make a living riding a bike, but just as in being a major player in the Tour or Giro, most washed out.
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Old 07-21-20, 12:45 PM
  #70  
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Still lots of messengers here, still faster than driving and parking most places, but I think the personal electric vehicles could take over the delivery game. Still not enough bike lanes but there are more every year. Downtown is still bumper to bumper traffic (or was, before the 'rona). I thought just riding to work through that splitting lanes was fun for the first few months. Then I started to realize how ridiculously dangerous it is. The fixie messengers going full speed through red lights are suicidal.
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Old 07-21-20, 01:06 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by RadDog View Post

But the truth is, probably none of you would have made it through one week on this job. .
You seem extremely confused.

I'm quite confident that everyone posting in here has a job already, and are likely pretty successful at said job.

In addition, everyone posting in here is likely to be a fairly accomplished bike racer, because this is the bike racing forum.

You, apparently, are not a bike racer. All you're doing is raving about a messenger gig you had two decades ago and trying to argue that you're some sort of "professional." It genuinely has nothing to do with anything.
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Old 07-21-20, 01:08 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by RadDog View Post
The bottom line is, many, many people would love to make a living riding a bike, but just as in being a major player in the Tour or Giro, most washed out.
**** that. No, many, many people have zero interest rolling around city streets trying not to get ran over. You're delusional.

Go enter a race next season and come back and complain about getting dropped. Then you'll be on to something relevant.
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Old 07-21-20, 01:32 PM
  #73  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
You seem extremely confused.

I'm quite confident that everyone posting in here has a job already, and are likely pretty successful at said job.

In addition, everyone posting in here is likely to be a fairly accomplished bike racer, because this is the bike racing forum.

You, apparently, are not a bike racer. All you're doing is raving about a messenger gig you had two decades ago and trying to argue that you're some sort of "professional." It genuinely has nothing to do with anything.

You see, this is exactly the type of arrogance that explains why road racers can't make it. Whereas I respect road guys, you don't respect me, even though I would smoke you every way to Sunday in an urban race. I am 58, but put me in any city anywhere and I would beat you in my sleep. Lets put some money on it. I am in Houston but can travel. I actually was a pretty decent BMX racer. The difference is that the BMX guys are not nearly as conceded as the road guy, and you keep making my point.
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Old 07-21-20, 01:40 PM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by RadDog View Post
You see, this is exactly the type of arrogance that explains why road racers can't make it. Whereas I respect road guys, you don't respect me, even though I would smoke you every way to Sunday in an urban race. I am 58, but put me in any city anywhere and I would beat you in my sleep. Lets put some money on it. I am in Houston but can travel. I actually was a pretty decent BMX racer. The difference is that the BMX guys are not nearly as conceded as the road guy, and you keep making my point.
You can't race me. You're not a bike racer.

Like I said, go do a race next season. Get dropped, come complain about it, spend the next three to four years going back and forth between getting dropped and finally getting enough podiums to upgrade, etc.

You still won't be able to race against me, but at least you might be able do some cat 3 master's races or something. By then maybe you'll have some semblance of a clue as to how far out in right field you are with all of this nonsense you're posting.
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Old 07-21-20, 01:45 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by RadDog View Post
The difference is that the BMX guys are not nearly as conceded as the road guy, and you keep making my point.
You bumped an eleven year old thread in a bike racing forum because you wanted props about your bike messaging exploits from the turn of the century, and then you get all bent out of shape when it's pointed out how delivering messages is not actually bike racing.

Perhaps your penchant for waxing poetic about the good ole days would be more appropriate in a bike messenger forum?
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