Talk me out of the Canyon Ultimate CF SL 8.0
08-12-20, 05:17 AM
#26
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08-12-20, 05:52 AM
#27
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Our one experience with Canyon is that they stand by their warranty, repeatedly. On the other hand, after the third replacement (two rear triangles, one cracked carbon main frame), we cut our losses and sold the bike (Spectral).
08-12-20, 07:42 AM
#28
Tragically Ignorant
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It's going to sap your budget for hookers and blow.
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08-12-20, 08:32 AM
#29
Junior Member
I have seen a Pinarello around the same price! Is the Canyon ultimate rides better than a Pinarello? New to biking please educate me thanks.
08-12-20, 10:30 AM
#30
Senior Member
Know yourself and be honest with yourself about what you want out of a bike. Take the time to learn as much as you can with regard to what bicycle characteristics and technologies best support what you to do with it. Check your finances, and then choose... and don't be surprised if 5 or 10 years down the road, your selection calculus changes completely.
Last edited by bmcer; 08-12-20 at 10:33 AM.
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08-12-20, 12:23 PM
#32
Junior Member
Whether one particular bike "rides better" than another depends entirely on your tastes and your expectations. At the price point we're discussing, I doubt you'll find many truly "bad" bikes. OTOH, there are many folks out there with unrealistic goals and ill-defined preferences.
Know yourself and be honest with yourself about what you want out of a bike. Take the time to learn as much as you can with regard to what bicycle characteristics and technologies best support what you to do with it. Check your finances, and then choose... and don't be surprised if 5 or 10 years down the road, your selection calculus changes completely.
Know yourself and be honest with yourself about what you want out of a bike. Take the time to learn as much as you can with regard to what bicycle characteristics and technologies best support what you to do with it. Check your finances, and then choose... and don't be surprised if 5 or 10 years down the road, your selection calculus changes completely.
bmcer thank you for responding! Also thank you for your great advice and I will do just what you said. I’m on a Walmart gravel bike and I commute to work daily and I average 40 miles a day on my bike, I am new to biking don’t know anything about it except I know I could use a lighter bike maybe I could travel longer and further. I am hitting my goal and my body is looking much healthier and I’m in my mid 40s. I’m poor man but I’m willing to scrap some coin so I could finally feel what it’s like to ride a real bike thank you.
Last edited by barakah; 08-12-20 at 01:31 PM.
08-12-20, 12:25 PM
#33
Junior Member
08-12-20, 12:45 PM
#34
Junior Member
08-12-20, 03:01 PM
#36
Senior Member
bmcer thank you for responding! Also thank you for your great advice and I will do just what you said. I’m on a Walmart gravel bike and I commute to work daily and I average 40 miles a day on my bike, I am new to biking don’t know anything about it except I know I could use a lighter bike maybe I could travel longer and further. I am hitting my goal and my body is looking much healthier and I’m in my mid 40s. I’m poor man but I’m willing to scrap some coin so I could finally feel what it’s like to ride a real bike thank you.
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08-12-20, 05:36 PM
#38
Senior Member
No worries... Here's the full text.
First things first. I am NO expert. I'm not even particularly smart. But at age 72, I'd have to be really stupid not to have learned a lesson or two in that amount of time. Some of it even applies to cycling
There's a bewildering array of bicycles and vendors out there competing for your hard earned cash, and they'll lean on market buzz as much as real technology to get your attention. I'll try to help you separate the wheat from some of the chaff.
Since you sited weight as one of your main considerations, let discuss it first. On flat courses at fairly constant speeds, weight really doesn't make a helluva lot of difference. A lighter bike will most likely feel more responsive, but in reality unless you do a lot of climbing or do a lot of acceleration/deceleration (think criterion racing), a feather weight bike isn't going to make you any faster. And not all weight is equal. Rotating weight carries more of a penalty that static weight. Taking half a Kg off wheels will have more effect than the same half a kilo off the frame. That said, dropping a few pounds in body weight trumps everything. Just be aware that as a general rule, low weight comes at the cost of overall strength, "stiffness", and durability. Yes, there are materials and methods of construction that can bend the weight/strength curve, but unless you throw down a lot of 1500+ watt sprints, they are pretty irrelevant.
Where straight line raw speed is concerned, aerodynamics play a much more significant role than weight by a large margin. BUT... don't be seduced by claims of aerodynamic design saving you X watts. The vast majority of those claims are made for speeds at or above 25 mph. Read the fine print. At even just 5 mph slower, the numbers are much more modest since aerodynamic resistance vs speed are exponentially related, i.e. going twice as fast creates 4 times as much resistance. So if you're going to be cruising around at 25 - 30 mph, aerodynamics are a big deal. If you're more like me (I typically average somewhere between 15 and 20 mph on a 40 mile ride), it's a lot less meaningful.
How does comfort fit into the equation? Well, your age and physical condition has a lot to do with it. When I was under 50 y/o, I was perfectly comfy down on the drops and riding the rivet all day. I was 6'-0" and weighed maybe 155 wringing wet with my clothes on. 30 years later, I'm 20 pounds heavier, and inch shorter, and not quite so flexible as I was then. So a more upright position is far more tolerable over long distances. A bike with a bit less reach and a bit more stack, and a longer wheel base is more to my liking these days. And wider, lower pressure tires are also desirable if you're looking for a smooth ride. Again, there are many claims made for certain types of materials and construction methods in terms of "compliance", but in the end your own condition and softer tires will have the greatest effect on your freshness upon arrival.
And we haven't even broached the subject of cost. Or aesthetic appeal. Those are just too personal for a text-only environment. Maybe over a cold one after a shared ride, but give the current situation, that'll just have to wait Meantime, don't take my word for it. Get as many opinions as can and cultivate a healthy skepticism. It is a sort of hydraulic problem. You push in at one place, and it pops out somewhere else. Don't let that frustrate you. It is, as is often said, the journey, not the destination.
First things first. I am NO expert. I'm not even particularly smart. But at age 72, I'd have to be really stupid not to have learned a lesson or two in that amount of time. Some of it even applies to cycling
There's a bewildering array of bicycles and vendors out there competing for your hard earned cash, and they'll lean on market buzz as much as real technology to get your attention. I'll try to help you separate the wheat from some of the chaff.
Since you sited weight as one of your main considerations, let discuss it first. On flat courses at fairly constant speeds, weight really doesn't make a helluva lot of difference. A lighter bike will most likely feel more responsive, but in reality unless you do a lot of climbing or do a lot of acceleration/deceleration (think criterion racing), a feather weight bike isn't going to make you any faster. And not all weight is equal. Rotating weight carries more of a penalty that static weight. Taking half a Kg off wheels will have more effect than the same half a kilo off the frame. That said, dropping a few pounds in body weight trumps everything. Just be aware that as a general rule, low weight comes at the cost of overall strength, "stiffness", and durability. Yes, there are materials and methods of construction that can bend the weight/strength curve, but unless you throw down a lot of 1500+ watt sprints, they are pretty irrelevant.
Where straight line raw speed is concerned, aerodynamics play a much more significant role than weight by a large margin. BUT... don't be seduced by claims of aerodynamic design saving you X watts. The vast majority of those claims are made for speeds at or above 25 mph. Read the fine print. At even just 5 mph slower, the numbers are much more modest since aerodynamic resistance vs speed are exponentially related, i.e. going twice as fast creates 4 times as much resistance. So if you're going to be cruising around at 25 - 30 mph, aerodynamics are a big deal. If you're more like me (I typically average somewhere between 15 and 20 mph on a 40 mile ride), it's a lot less meaningful.
How does comfort fit into the equation? Well, your age and physical condition has a lot to do with it. When I was under 50 y/o, I was perfectly comfy down on the drops and riding the rivet all day. I was 6'-0" and weighed maybe 155 wringing wet with my clothes on. 30 years later, I'm 20 pounds heavier, and inch shorter, and not quite so flexible as I was then. So a more upright position is far more tolerable over long distances. A bike with a bit less reach and a bit more stack, and a longer wheel base is more to my liking these days. And wider, lower pressure tires are also desirable if you're looking for a smooth ride. Again, there are many claims made for certain types of materials and construction methods in terms of "compliance", but in the end your own condition and softer tires will have the greatest effect on your freshness upon arrival.
And we haven't even broached the subject of cost. Or aesthetic appeal. Those are just too personal for a text-only environment. Maybe over a cold one after a shared ride, but give the current situation, that'll just have to wait
Meantime, don't take my word for it. Get as many opinions as can and cultivate a healthy skepticism. It is a sort of hydraulic problem. You push in at one place, and it pops out somewhere else. Don't let that frustrate you. It is, as is often said, the journey, not the destination.
Last edited by bmcer; 08-12-20 at 06:19 PM.
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08-12-20, 06:29 PM
#39
Senior Member
The 2021 Prince is out with disk brakes the MSRP is $4500. The frame is new this year. It does not come with rim brakes this year. You should look at the 2021 Pinarello Paris too.
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08-13-20, 09:11 AM
#41
Junior Member
08-13-20, 11:09 AM
#43
Senior Member
Capt_Velo, me niether, but...
Barakah,
The short version is I bought a Canyon Endurance CF SL 8.0. Essentially the same bike as the Ultimate with a geometry better suited to a more upright position. I am extremely happy with this bike. It checked all the boxes that are important to me for $400 to $800 less than anything else that came close. (That matters to us fixed income retirees
) Canyon maintained good communication throughout the process and delivery was quick. I have done my own wrenching and wheel building for 40+ years, so I'm not too concerned about on-going service. In my time, I've owned a Bruce Gordon custom steel bike, one Trek, 2 Pinarello's (A Paris and a Dogma), a Wilier, a BMC Teammachine SLR01, and now a Canyon. They were all great bikes that fit my needs and wants for a particular time in my cycling "career" to varying degrees. As I've aged, I've become a bit more thoughtful about my choices. So I think the Canyon is one of, if not the best match ever. Being a sentimental old fart, I still ride the Bruce Gordon from time to time as a little walk down memory lane, and the BMC still gets out to play when I feel like going hard. But the Canyon will be my go to ride for the foreseeable future.
Barakah,
The short version is I bought a Canyon Endurance CF SL 8.0. Essentially the same bike as the Ultimate with a geometry better suited to a more upright position. I am extremely happy with this bike. It checked all the boxes that are important to me for $400 to $800 less than anything else that came close. (That matters to us fixed income retirees
) Canyon maintained good communication throughout the process and delivery was quick. I have done my own wrenching and wheel building for 40+ years, so I'm not too concerned about on-going service. In my time, I've owned a Bruce Gordon custom steel bike, one Trek, 2 Pinarello's (A Paris and a Dogma), a Wilier, a BMC Teammachine SLR01, and now a Canyon. They were all great bikes that fit my needs and wants for a particular time in my cycling "career" to varying degrees. As I've aged, I've become a bit more thoughtful about my choices. So I think the Canyon is one of, if not the best match ever. Being a sentimental old fart, I still ride the Bruce Gordon from time to time as a little walk down memory lane, and the BMC still gets out to play when I feel like going hard. But the Canyon will be my go to ride for the foreseeable future.
Last edited by bmcer; 08-13-20 at 11:18 AM.
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08-14-20, 11:31 AM
#44
Junior Member
Capt_Velo, me niether, but...
Barakah,
The short version is I bought a Canyon Endurance CF SL 8.0. Essentially the same bike as the Ultimate with a geometry better suited to a more upright position. I am extremely happy with this bike. It checked all the boxes that are important to me for $400 to $800 less than anything else that came close. (That matters to us fixed income retirees) Canyon maintained good communication throughout the process and delivery was quick. I have done my own wrenching and wheel building for 40+ years, so I'm not too concerned about on-going service. In my time, I've owned a Bruce Gordon custom steel bike, one Trek, 2 Pinarello's (A Paris and a Dogma), a Wilier, a BMC Teammachine SLR01, and now a Canyon. They were all great bikes that fit my needs and wants for a particular time in my cycling "career" to varying degrees. As I've aged, I've become a bit more thoughtful about my choices. So I think the Canyon is one of, if not the best match ever. Being a sentimental old fart, I still ride the Bruce Gordon from time to time as a little walk down memory lane, and the BMC still gets out to play when I feel like going hard. But the Canyon will be my go to ride for the foreseeable future.
Barakah,
The short version is I bought a Canyon Endurance CF SL 8.0. Essentially the same bike as the Ultimate with a geometry better suited to a more upright position. I am extremely happy with this bike. It checked all the boxes that are important to me for $400 to $800 less than anything else that came close. (That matters to us fixed income retirees
) Canyon maintained good communication throughout the process and delivery was quick. I have done my own wrenching and wheel building for 40+ years, so I'm not too concerned about on-going service. In my time, I've owned a Bruce Gordon custom steel bike, one Trek, 2 Pinarello's (A Paris and a Dogma), a Wilier, a BMC Teammachine SLR01, and now a Canyon. They were all great bikes that fit my needs and wants for a particular time in my cycling "career" to varying degrees. As I've aged, I've become a bit more thoughtful about my choices. So I think the Canyon is one of, if not the best match ever. Being a sentimental old fart, I still ride the Bruce Gordon from time to time as a little walk down memory lane, and the BMC still gets out to play when I feel like going hard. But the Canyon will be my go to ride for the foreseeable future.i rode back to the shop and checked out the prince and dogma and I was blown how nice they look but as I read more about the Canyon and it’s warranty I am starting to like the Canyon Ultimate CF.
Last edited by barakah; 08-14-20 at 11:41 AM.
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08-14-20, 11:59 AM
#45
Senior Member
The mentor I was referring was you!!! You said not too smart and you almost had me fooled, I know a intelligent individual when they start speaking; nice sets of rides you have as I am also liking the Canyon Ultimate.
i rode back to the shop and checked out the prince and dogma and I was blown how nice they look but as I read more about the Canyon and it’s warranty I am starting to like the Canyon Ultimate CF.
i rode back to the shop and checked out the prince and dogma and I was blown how nice they look but as I read more about the Canyon and it’s warranty I am starting to like the Canyon Ultimate CF.
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08-14-20, 01:56 PM
#46
Senior Member
The mentor I was referring was you!!! You said not too smart and you almost had me fooled, I know a intelligent individual when they start speaking; nice sets of rides you have as I am also liking the Canyon Ultimate.
i rode back to the shop and checked out the prince and dogma and I was blown how nice they look but as I read more about the Canyon and it’s warranty I am starting to like the Canyon Ultimate CF.
i rode back to the shop and checked out the prince and dogma and I was blown how nice they look but as I read more about the Canyon and it’s warranty I am starting to like the Canyon Ultimate CF.
08-15-20, 06:39 PM
#47
Junior Member
About the tires! They are so much softer the ride when I ran the psi lower on my wheels! Thanks for that solid tip makes a lot different in long rides thanks.
08-15-20, 06:59 PM
#48
Airplanes, bikes, beer.
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My Endurace CF SL 8.0 rides like a pillow on G5000s @ ~ 54psi rear and 48psi front. I can see cracks/seams in the road, but I can't feel them at all. Nicest bike I've ever ridden in regard to plushness and comfort on the road. The miles roll by without beating me senseless. I really love riding this bike. Are there others out there that I would love just as much? Probably, but I love what I've got and I'm happy with it. (That works for all sorts of things in life, from whisky to toilet paper, cars, spouses, etc.) Anyway, I hope the OP buys a great bike soon, and puts many, many enjoyable miles on it.
08-17-20, 10:24 AM
#49
Senior Member
I've had an Aeroad for the past 2 yrs and put 5-7k miles on it per year. It has been absolutely rock solid so far. Zero issues whatsoever.
I've also been thinking about adding an Ultimate to the collection recently.
The only negative for me is it seem like Canyon always lags behind on the developmental curve. Would love to know why they haven't switched to integrated cable routing (even on their new Ultimate CFR just released last week)? Also you have the "new Aeroad" that has been rumored now for what seems like years.
To that end, even when buying a brand new Canyon, it can feel like your buying a slightly older bike. This is mostly a mental thing and if you like the way it rides, then who really cares. But it is certainly something I've thought about.
I've also been thinking about adding an Ultimate to the collection recently.
The only negative for me is it seem like Canyon always lags behind on the developmental curve. Would love to know why they haven't switched to integrated cable routing (even on their new Ultimate CFR just released last week)? Also you have the "new Aeroad" that has been rumored now for what seems like years.
To that end, even when buying a brand new Canyon, it can feel like your buying a slightly older bike. This is mostly a mental thing and if you like the way it rides, then who really cares. But it is certainly something I've thought about.
08-17-20, 11:55 PM
#50
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I've had an Aeroad for the past 2 yrs and put 5-7k miles on it per year. It has been absolutely rock solid so far. Zero issues whatsoever.
I've also been thinking about adding an Ultimate to the collection recently.
The only negative for me is it seem like Canyon always lags behind on the developmental curve. Would love to know why they haven't switched to integrated cable routing (even on their new Ultimate CFR just released last week)? Also you have the "new Aeroad" that has been rumored now for what seems like years.
To that end, even when buying a brand new Canyon, it can feel like your buying a slightly older bike. This is mostly a mental thing and if you like the way it rides, then who really cares. But it is certainly something I've thought about.
I've also been thinking about adding an Ultimate to the collection recently.
The only negative for me is it seem like Canyon always lags behind on the developmental curve. Would love to know why they haven't switched to integrated cable routing (even on their new Ultimate CFR just released last week)? Also you have the "new Aeroad" that has been rumored now for what seems like years.
To that end, even when buying a brand new Canyon, it can feel like your buying a slightly older bike. This is mostly a mental thing and if you like the way it rides, then who really cares. But it is certainly something I've thought about.