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1x Gearing: I hate when the facts get in the way of a good project

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1x Gearing: I hate when the facts get in the way of a good project

Old 12-16-19, 09:46 AM
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FlashBazbo
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1x Gearing: I hate when the facts get in the way of a good project

Due to circumstances of my own inadvertent making, I find myself with an extra OPEN U.P. frameset. (Long story. Don't ask.) I actually figured it was a good thing. I would build it up with a 1x setup and an 11-46 cassette and make it my dedicated "climbing / mountain" gravel bike. I have had a 1x 11-42 setup in the past and it was a great climber. But then, I went to Sheldon Brown's gear calculator and compared my proposed 11-46 setup to my current 2x setup. It's 46-30 up front and 11-34 in back. What did I find?

If I go to a 40T 1x chainring, I sacrifice 4 mph of top end (at 90 rpm) and end up with essentially the same low gear I have now. (Not good.) If I go to a 38T chainring, I lose 5 mph up top and get an incredibly tiny benefit -- probably not enough benefit to really notice it in the heat of battle. In other words, if I do what I was thinking of doing, my "climbing" bike wouldn't be any faster going up, but would be a lot slower on the flats / descents.

I hate when the facts get in the way of a perfectly good project.
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Old 12-16-19, 10:02 AM
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I don't know how fast you are but have you tried 40x11? I have.

It forces me to tuck on big hills and leaves me a little light with a big tail wind. I climb with 40x42 and have never wanted more (less) on gravel. On mountain bike terrain, I would use lower gears if I had them. I have 700x38 tires. This gearing would be pretty useless on 650.

Colorado rider here, I have always considered the Rockies sufficiently steep.

If I went 1x on a big budget bike, I'd fit a 10t into the mix. A 10-46 1x12 with a 42 chainring would give me a better low end and high end than I have now with very similar gaps (current bike is 10sp).

I suppose this all changes if you're very fast or ride with a lot of baggage.
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Old 12-16-19, 10:10 AM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
I suppose this all changes if you're very fast or ride with a lot of baggage.
Yes. A lot of the gravel in the south Tennessee / north Georgia area is 20+% grade -- and I AM a lot of baggage (175 pounds).
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Old 12-16-19, 10:53 AM
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Yep. A 10t cog is the answer you're looking for.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:08 AM
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Originally Posted by shoota View Post
Yep. A 10t cog is the answer you're looking for.
No, it's really not. I'm not concerned about the top end. I was hoping to get wall-climbing help on the bottom end. A 10T is at the wrong end of the cassette to help me.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:12 AM
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Get a Rotor 1x13 groupset with 10-52 cassette. Problem solved for only $2800.

https://www.bikeradar.com/reviews/co...oupset-review/
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Old 12-16-19, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
but would be a lot slower on the flats / descents.
Sorry, this was the piece I picked up on.

Sram has a 10-50 (12s) cassette that would help out quite a bit paired with a 38 or 40T chainring. And Sunrace makes an 11s 11-50 cassette.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:19 AM
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Yeah- 2x adventure cranks with a reasonable sized cassette provide wider range, provide the same bailout ratio, and are often cheaper than 1x.
Obviously it always depends on the specific gearing, but the above seems to play out quite frequently.
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Old 12-16-19, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
No, it's really not. I'm not concerned about the top end. I was hoping to get wall-climbing help on the bottom end. A 10T is at the wrong end of the cassette to help me.
10 tooth cog allows the same top end with a smaller chainring.

40-11 101 gear inches
36-10 100 gear inches

https://www.gear-calculator.com/?GR=...&DV=gearInches
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Old 12-16-19, 11:33 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
No, it's really not. I'm not concerned about the top end. I was hoping to get wall-climbing help on the bottom end. A 10T is at the wrong end of the cassette to help me.
why not go to a 34t with the 11-46 then?
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Old 12-16-19, 03:01 PM
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I ride a 38T chainring with 10-42 cassette and it's great. Same top end of 42x11 and plenty low end for any kind of climbing.
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Old 12-16-19, 03:08 PM
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It's looking more and more like the 10t cog is the answer Get that XD driver wheelset dusted off.
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Old 12-16-19, 03:10 PM
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Originally Posted by redlude97 View Post
why not go to a 34t with the 11-46 then?
I ran a E-thirteen 9-46 cassette with a 34T chainring. Great climbing gearing with a decent top end. Although you need an XD driver to run it.
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Old 12-16-19, 04:55 PM
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I'm amused reading a bunch of posts giving advice as to how to make a 1X system "better". Easiest answer is 2 chainrings. Not hard to figure that sometimes a 2X crank just gives you what you need.
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Old 12-16-19, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
I'm amused reading a bunch of posts giving advice as to how to make a 1X system "better". Easiest answer is 2 chainrings. Not hard to figure that sometimes a 2X crank just gives you what you need.
Depends on your point of view. I see nothing wrong with a 1x. No need to make it "better." This may come as a shock, but people have different ideas on what works best for them.
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Old 12-16-19, 09:57 PM
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You must be terribly disappointed
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Old 12-16-19, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post
Depends on your point of view. I see nothing wrong with a 1x. No need to make it "better." This may come as a shock, but people have different ideas on what works best for them.
My comment was in context of what the OPís goals are and the suggestions received.

I have 1x on a new hard tail purchased last winter. Itís perfect for how I ride, gives me the range for my local conditions and I fully understand the use and value when thereís a lot of quick up and downs and not much time to decide what ring plus what cog. Really works well. Not the same for the way I (and seemingly the OP) set up and use a gravel and I find it amusing that folks try to change what heís obviously decided,
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Old 12-16-19, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Yes. A lot of the gravel in the south Tennessee / north Georgia area is 20+% grade -- and I AM a lot of baggage (175 pounds).
How many gear inches is your low gear now? I have ridden that area with 26 gear inches, and it worked out ok (carrying about 10 lbs). Curious what your gearing is like. If you want to bikepack the Cohuttas, 26 gear inches is probably not low enough.

Dave
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Old 12-16-19, 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
My comment was in context of what the OPís goals are and the suggestions received.

I have 1x on a new hard tail purchased last winter. Itís perfect for how I ride, gives me the range for my local conditions and I fully understand the use and value when thereís a lot of quick up and downs and not much time to decide what ring plus what cog. Really works well. Not the same for the way I (and seemingly the OP) set up and use a gravel and I find it amusing that folks try to change what heís obviously decided,
Well that explains quite a bit. Even the OP seems a bit ambiguous about his conclusions. Suggestions were made that addressed his concerns but yet he appears to have his mind made up. Seems like he wanted to prove a point rather than discuss options. But maybe I read too much into it? I think you and I are are talking about the same thing just from different ends of the spectrum.

The idea that a 1x system will provide the same range as a 2x has been debated and debunked many times over. No surprise there. Seems like the preferred gravel set up right now is a sub compact chain set and a 10-42 or 11-40 cassette. Smaller jumps compared to a 1x but a much wider range gearing than standard road gearing options.

So why even bother with a 1x system? Just depends on how you want to ride it. It has its place, but that isn't on a "do everything" type bike.
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Old 12-17-19, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by FlashBazbo View Post
Due to circumstances of my own inadvertent making, I find myself with an extra OPEN U.P. frameset. (Long story. Don't ask.)
I do want to ask. I like how this is worded... Kind of like "the bike followed me home".

You must not be married.
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Old 12-17-19, 09:22 AM
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I race cross and dabble with workouts on our gravel loop locally. I run a 40t up front and a 12-32 in the back for 1x. For me, it's simply the fact I can run a chain keeper on the front ring and chain and not worry about whatever really bumpy mess I'm doing.

I haven't tried bigger than 32, but need to so I can turn some of those gravel rides into true Z2 workouts. Right now a few of the short hills require a spirited hit up them in the 40/32 to get up them. 1:1 would ensure I keep it more mellow.

In those instances I don't care too much about top end. I'm a spinner, so 100 to 110rpm to me for short times ain't nothing.

Either way.......ditch the 11t cog and gain one back somewhere else. If your biggest cogs are 32, 34, etc.....you shouldn't be too concerned with having an 11t also.
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Old 12-17-19, 09:53 AM
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Mr Sheep

I have 2 cassettes for mine. An 11-42 and 12-36. The wider range one is on my gravel wheels and gets used accordingly. The 12-36 is exclusively for casual road riding almost always towing a kid in a Burley.

I've dabbled with switching cassettes around and for the majority of my gravel rides, I can't live without the 11t. It's a rare gravel ride that I don't use both the 11t and 42t. It sounds like the OP has much steeper but shorter hills than me.

Without looking at the calculation, from experience, 40x11 is good for 27-29mph without bouncing. I'd hate for the OP to build a bike that would run out of gearing every time he bumps into an intermediate club ride.

40x11 is pretty much the limit, and like I said before, 40x10 or 42x10 would be even better.

10-46 is readily available, would solve all his problems, would allow a chain keeper, eliminate a front D, avoid cross chain for ideal gears, and put a mint on his pillow.
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Old 12-17-19, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by rosefarts View Post
Mr Sheep

I have 2 cassettes for mine. An 11-42 and 12-36. The wider range one is on my gravel wheels and gets used accordingly. The 12-36 is exclusively for casual road riding almost always towing a kid in a Burley.

I've dabbled with switching cassettes around and for the majority of my gravel rides, I can't live without the 11t. It's a rare gravel ride that I don't use both the 11t and 42t. It sounds like the OP has much steeper but shorter hills than me.

Without looking at the calculation, from experience, 40x11 is good for 27-29mph without bouncing. I'd hate for the OP to build a bike that would run out of gearing every time he bumps into an intermediate club ride.

40x11 is pretty much the limit, and like I said before, 40x10 or 42x10 would be even better.

10-46 is readily available, would solve all his problems, would allow a chain keeper, eliminate a front D, avoid cross chain for ideal gears, and put a mint on his pillow.
Agreed. 42x11 is the limit for me, ideally. (I have 40x11 on one of my favorite bikes but that's a whole other story)
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Old 12-17-19, 08:57 PM
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I have a 42-11 on my gravel bike an it's plenty of gear for me. I was looking at 1x again recently and realized that an 11-46 cassette with a 42 or 40 would probably work fine for most of my gravel riding. I only rarely use big gears on gravel, too steep. And if I'm with a group, I can spin for 5 miles it takes on pavement to get to the gravel.

I was looking at getting another 42/28 crank for my gravel bike and was a little disappointed with this answer
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Old 12-17-19, 09:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Bryan C. View Post
So why even bother with a 1x system? Just depends on how you want to ride it. It has its place, but that isn't on a "do everything" type bike.
I wouldnít go that far. Sure it could have a place there. It just depends on your wants and priorities. Iím a cross racer who occasionally dabbles in gravel racing. Both of my cyclocross bikes these days are 1x10. When I decided on a whim this summer to race the Overland, I kept the 42 tooth chainring up front and swapped out the 12-30 cassette for an 11-36. And that actually worked fine. For climbing, I was actually better off than the two previous times Iíd done this event with a double, with a 38x25 and then a 38x30 low gear (I do NOT recommend the former, by the way). I wouldnít climb up on a soap box and declare that 42x11-36 is all anyone should ever want for a mountainous gravel event or even that it would be what I would choose if I were building a bike for gravel from the ground up. I donít even think a ďdo-everythingĒ bike is actually really possible anymore these days, or if it is itís not a good idea. But in that spirit, wouldnít you expect a do-everything bike to do some things better and some things a bit worse? It turns out my 1x bikes can race cross or they can race gravel. Theyíre a bit better at the former than the latter. Itís all very conditional, I happen to care more about cyclocross capability and Iím fortunate to be fit enough that 42x36 is an acceptable low gear. But bikes are very individual. Itís hard to categorically rule anything out.
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