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Which GPS and how to use one with free/Open Source maps for touring

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Which GPS and how to use one with free/Open Source maps for touring

Old 05-30-13, 08:18 AM
  #1  
NeoY2k
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Which GPS and how to use one with free/Open Source maps for touring

Hi,
Sorry for posting one more topic, I'm quite flooding the touring section...

I'm looking for a GPS for touring across Europe. I'm too bad of a navigator with paper maps and a cue sheet, I constantly get lost, lose a lot of time, and it runs on my nerves. Plus I'd have to take tons of paper maps as I really enjoy riding on the smallest roads possible.

How I want to use it:
- Draw my route on the computer. Online stuff will suffice. Will cut it in 100 km pieces, and mark places of interest (get water, historical place, nice things to see...).
- Upload it on the GPS.
- Have the thing prompt me when to turn (a beep would suffice). It seems this point is not that easy as some GPS would only beep when you get out of the trace, which would force me to look at the gps at each turn (better be easily readable then). A beep before would be nicer! Or at least a distance to next turn.
- Won't buy Garmin maps (too expensive), If possible to upgrade from a simple "trace" by adding real maps, I'd like to import open source ones. Heard it was possible... Don't know if it is easy/useful enough.

The GPS has to use AA batteries, so this rules out the Garmin Edge line. I'm willing to buy used, and I want it cheap. I want it GPX compatible to avoid useless conversion headaches, even if it means going down in quality/functionality. Small is cute, the cheapest the best.

I nailed GPS selection down to (others might be better, please correct me):
Garmin Dakota 10 (Dakota 20 on bargain); eTrex 10 (eTrex 20 or 30 on bargain); GPSMap 62 on bargain (still expensive, but if it really offers more...).

I'm not sure the small eTrex 10 (that can be had dirt cheap) supports maps, only trace? Do I need real cartographic data to make a GPS work the way I want? Is it easy to add OSM maps to them? How to use a GPS the way I want? (which software...).
If you could point me to websites/articles explaining this.

Thank you very much!
Nicolas
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Old 05-30-13, 01:16 PM
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I have the Etrex 30. I love it. Loaded some maps from this site - https://garmin.openstreetmap.nl/
The screen is bright, maybe a little small but that's fine.
The only thing I still cannot find is making the GPS warn me when I off the route / before turn.
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Old 05-30-13, 01:37 PM
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DCRainmaker recently described how he gets Open Street Maps onto Garmin units. Process is for the Garmin 705, 800, 810 but may work for other equipment.

GPS with sealed internal rechargable batteries can be made to work - get an external charger (USB output to GPS) that uses AA batteries. Usually marketed to recharge cell phones. You can make one if you have basic soldering skills or know someone with same - look for "MintyBoost". (Kits also from ThinkGeek, Adafruit, and a few other vendors. ~ $20.00)
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Old 05-30-13, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ks1g
GPS with sealed internal rechargable batteries can be made to work - get an external charger (USB output to GPS) that uses AA batteries. Usually marketed to recharge cell phones. You can make one if you have basic soldering skills or know someone with same - look for "MintyBoost". (Kits also from ThinkGeek, Adafruit, and a few other vendors. ~ $20.00)
Certain Garmin models (and maybe others) can get "upset" if they are hooked up to such batteries. They think they are hooked up to a computer and then won't function as a GPS. (It's quite annoying, actually....)
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Old 05-30-13, 01:43 PM
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delorme's are pretty good.
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Old 05-30-13, 02:02 PM
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Thank you. I don't think I'd mess with external AA, as the Edge series is more expensive than the eTrex one... So more faffing for more money, actually.
The eTrex 30 sounds good, so does the 20. It seems the eTrex 10 does not allow to load any map, there is one included with the highways around the globe and that's it. A bit diminutive, even if cheap. I'll go to the 20 or 30.

Which advantages would the Edge series have over the eTrex?

But bnayal's comment worries me. Has someone found a way to make the thing notify before a turn?

Thank you for the very clear and comprehensive links!

Thanks,
Nicolas
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Old 05-30-13, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by ks1g
DCRainmaker recently described how he gets Open Street Maps onto Garmin units. Process is for the Garmin 705, 800, 810 but may work for other equipment.

GPS with sealed internal rechargable batteries can be made to work - get an external charger (USB output to GPS) that uses AA batteries. Usually marketed to recharge cell phones. You can make one if you have basic soldering skills or know someone with same - look for "MintyBoost". (Kits also from ThinkGeek, Adafruit, and a few other vendors. ~ $20.00)
The link you posted from DCR is EXCELLENT!!! Thank you!
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Old 05-30-13, 02:38 PM
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An option for recharge the garmin is a dyno hub. Mine charge the garmin very quick on a 30 mile ride the other day.
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Old 05-30-13, 02:41 PM
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You really do not need any notification before a turn. Trust me on this and yes, I am VERY much like you and used to get lost all the time and such before I bought my gamrin. The only time I use the notification is when I am on long rides and I need to be tapped into one of the other pages of the garmin like for HRM, or cadence, etc. But when I commute or are on rides that I am scouting out, I use the map function. I just look down when it is about time to turn. No worries..... it works 100%

I will note one thing, even if you want it to tell you where to turn, you still need to do some up front work. Yes, the edge will tell you where to turn but it happens RIGHT before a turn. If you want it to notify you like 200 feet out before the turn, you have to load it into bikeroutetoaster.com and set it up that way. It is an easy process and I can walk you through if/when you need it but really, if I use my garmin on tour, I am using the map function. It is as simple as that.
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Old 05-30-13, 03:48 PM
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Thank you very much!

It really is sad they didn't provision for a distance ahead of the turn, that instant beep and turn could lead to funny situations! Though sure, I'll stay on the map (couldn't care less about the other functions, I have my classic wired bike odometer for these), and if it works for you, it should work for me.

I'd still be very interested in your procedure, should I feel I like it better this way... I already use BikeRouteToaster but never looked at these kind of functions!

Thanks,
Nicolas
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Old 05-30-13, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by NeoY2k
Thank you very much!

It really is sad they didn't provision for a distance ahead of the turn, that instant beep and turn could lead to funny situations! Though sure, I'll stay on the map (couldn't care less about the other functions, I have my classic wired bike odometer for these), and if it works for you, it should work for me.

I'd still be very interested in your procedure, should I feel I like it better this way... I already use BikeRouteToaster but never looked at these kind of functions!

Thanks,
Nicolas
Its very easily. Basically you map out your ride, say in bikeroutetoaster, and before downloading the map, you set the perimeters to at which point you want the turn by turn to tell you where to turn. Basically it creates another waypoint. Very useful.

But again, to be frank, if you do not use the other functions like cadence and HRM then your GPS should always be on the maps and to be frank, it is pretty easy to look down and see the turns. It works wonders. Cant miss a turn and if for some reason you do, it will notify you by a buzz.
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Old 05-30-13, 09:10 PM
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I use an Etrex 20 much as you described. I just googled "free GPS base maps" and found a bunch of websites with just that. I'll typically draw route on Google maps, get the KML file, then use kml2gpx.com to convert it into a gpx which I can put as a route on the GPS unit. If I'm strictly following a route, that's all I'd need, but of course the base map is handy to have too for improvising routes and such.

However, a GPS unit is not a substitute for a good paper map. Rather, it's a supplement that produces extra capabilities. If you're doing any kind of navigating or routefinding, you'll want something more usable than just the GPS.
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Old 05-31-13, 12:10 AM
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Originally Posted by chefisaac
Cant miss a turn and if for some reason you do, it will notify you by a buzz.
How can you make it notify when you off the route?
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Old 05-31-13, 05:01 AM
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Originally Posted by bnayal
How can you make it notify when you off the route?
This is a function of the garmin or other unit that you have. I can only speak for the garmin 800 which I highly recommend because it is easy to use. You can set the notify function for off routing on that garmin.
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Old 05-31-13, 05:02 AM
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Originally Posted by jbphilly

However, a GPS unit is not a substitute for a good paper map. Rather, it's a supplement that produces extra capabilities. If you're doing any kind of navigating or routefinding, you'll want something more usable than just the GPS.
Would you say an online map, or maps that can be used offline but still with a computer are as good as paper maps?
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Old 05-31-13, 05:51 AM
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Originally Posted by chefisaac
Would you say an online map, or maps that can be used offline but still with a computer are as good as paper maps?
I'll start by saying I too favor paper maps. I find it easier to plan routes on a good paper map. I use GPS mainly for distance/speed info, and for putting me back on paper map if I don't know where I am.

With a good electronic base map and a reasonable user interface, route planning on computer screen should be fun. Think about all the things you could do that you cannot do on paper (zooming, instant distance calculations, street views etc - think Google). But in my neck of woods, online maps, especially Google, are not very good for cycling purposes. If I could have Google's interface on top of better electronic map data, I'd give it a go. GPS units have better quality maps (I use bundled maps that came with my old Magellan Meridian GPS) but they are expensive compared to proper paper maps. I've never tried open source maps, so don't know how good they are at this point.

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Old 05-31-13, 07:38 AM
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Originally Posted by chefisaac
Would you say an online map, or maps that can be used offline but still with a computer are as good as paper maps?
If you had a tablet computer and internet connectivity (or, perhaps, a good map saved on your tablet/laptop) that might approach the ease of use of a paper map. For me, though, you can't really rival the ability to quickly look over large distances that a good paper map offers.
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Old 05-31-13, 07:46 AM
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paper maps

Originally Posted by jbphilly
you can't really rival the ability to quickly look over large distances that a good paper map offers.
Very true, but the real challenge becomes finding good paper maps these days. With gps and smartphones and tablets the paper map business is a dead horse, or soon to be dead horse anyway.
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Old 05-31-13, 09:05 AM
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I don't think so. USGS topo maps and the like, for example, are found easily in PDF format and can be printed out. To say nothing of state road maps, which I can't see totally vanishing.
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Old 05-31-13, 09:54 AM
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Not free, and only U.S. and Canada right now, but I use the tomtom app on my iPhone.

It creates great bicycle routes. You can tell it to avoid (or not) gravel roads. It finds very direct routes on neighborhood/surface roads and such, being sensitive to the best roads for bicycle travel. You also don't have to plan your routes at a full computer beforehand. You plan the route with the tomtom app itself. This can make your trip more dynamic. If you find a place you want to go visit then do that. If that puts you off your route, no problem because it recalculates the best route from whereever you are. And it has its own street database built in so you don't need a network connection either. So a remote area with no cell coverage is not a problem. It calls out turn by turn directions so you don't need to be studying the map all the time. Miss a turn and you'll hear directions to turn around and turn left at da de da, or it might want you to just go up to the next turn and take that, whichever is shorter. You can lookup places a bunch of different ways and you can save "favorites" so you can easily plot a route to a saved location. Turns are real clear by giving you a "driver's view" (3d) of the "map" with a big red arrow so you can see at a glance a view that compares to what you see in front of you rather than mentally trying to quickly translate a 2d map at some scale to your immediate surroundings. You can see a regular 2d map too. You can also customize the route. If it starts with a real direct route but on some major roads just ask it to calculate an alternative and see how that looks. You can tell it to avoid certain roads, etc. Many more features.

Pricey for an iPhone app. I paid $50. But all these features make it worthwhile for me.
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Old 05-31-13, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by ks1g
GPS with sealed internal rechargable batteries can be made to work - get an external charger (USB output to GPS) that uses AA batteries. Usually marketed to recharge cell phones. You can make one if you have basic soldering skills or know someone with same - look for "MintyBoost". (Kits also from ThinkGeek, Adafruit, and a few other vendors. ~ $20.00)
I got one of those, I was really surprised how hot the batteries got. I was using rechargeable AA batteries, I have heard that the disposable batteries get even hotter. I did not get much power out of it before I decided to shut it off. I think those are good for emergency only.

Originally Posted by jbphilly
If you had a tablet computer and internet connectivity (or, perhaps, a good map saved on your tablet/laptop) that might approach the ease of use of a paper map. For me, though, you can't really rival the ability to quickly look over large distances that a good paper map offers.
I recently bought a smartphone with the intention of using the GPS mapping capability on it as a backup. I planned to still use my vintage Garmin recreational grade GPS that is so old that it is black and white screen. I can say that in USA that the Android app MapsWithMe has very good free maps that will work off-line on a smartphone. But my phone with GPS turned on burns thru the battery pretty fast and the screen is not very easy to read on a sunny day. I will continue to use my Garmin as my primary GPS, the phone only as a backup.

And, if you are depending on electronics, you can be most certain that they will fail at the worst time, bring a paper map and compass.
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Old 05-31-13, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN

And, if you are depending on electronics, you can be most certain that they will fail at the worst time, bring a paper map and compass.
I take my iPhone as primary, iPad as backup. No paper.
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Old 05-31-13, 03:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Walter S
Not free, and only U.S. and Canada right now, but I use the tomtom app on my iPhone.

It creates great bicycle routes. You can tell it to avoid (or not) gravel roads. It finds very direct routes on neighborhood/surface roads and such, being sensitive to the best roads for bicycle travel. You also don't have to plan your routes at a full computer beforehand. You plan the route with the tomtom app itself. This can make your trip more dynamic. If you find a place you want to go visit then do that. If that puts you off your route, no problem because it recalculates the best route from whereever you are. And it has its own street database built in so you don't need a network connection either. So a remote area with no cell coverage is not a problem. It calls out turn by turn directions so you don't need to be studying the map all the time. Miss a turn and you'll hear directions to turn around and turn left at da de da, or it might want you to just go up to the next turn and take that, whichever is shorter. You can lookup places a bunch of different ways and you can save "favorites" so you can easily plot a route to a saved location. Turns are real clear by giving you a "driver's view" (3d) of the "map" with a big red arrow so you can see at a glance a view that compares to what you see in front of you rather than mentally trying to quickly translate a 2d map at some scale to your immediate surroundings. You can see a regular 2d map too. You can also customize the route. If it starts with a real direct route but on some major roads just ask it to calculate an alternative and see how that looks. You can tell it to avoid certain roads, etc. Many more features.

Pricey for an iPhone app. I paid $50. But all these features make it worthwhile for me.
GREAT suggestion.

Funny thing.... I used a Tom Tom when they first came out many many years ago. Interesting to see the name pop up again.

Tell me, does it wear your battery down a lot?
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Old 05-31-13, 04:57 PM
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I just picked up a Garmin Etrex 20 and so far have been very happy with it. I already have an Edge 800 and even though it has a slightly larger screen I think the 20 will be a better navigational tool. It was a pain tin the butt to download the maps I had to call Garmin but they were very helpful and made it a simple process.
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Old 05-31-13, 05:58 PM
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Thank you all.
Yeah you pretty much described what I want to take for navigation. It will be an eTrex 20 or 30 that will provide me turn by turn over OSM topographic maps for routes that will have been planned in advance on the computer.
It is not there to replace paper map, but provide me clear and simple directions.

I wil be bringing a laptop for general use, so will have the maps in the computer (off line use). It will weight a lot less and take way less room (thinkpad x62s with double battery, good for >7h) than paper maps showing small roads for 4000-5000km diagonally through Europe.

I have no iPhone, nor any smartphone, and will be free camping so the battery life would be clearly not sufficient.
But I will ride in the morning and afternoon with some time in the middle, which will allow me to charge AA batteries for the eTrex and the laptop, doing it every 3 days at most sounds reasonable.

Don't get me wrong, I love paper maps. Especially our national IGN ones that are beautiful and precise, with every park/wood/forest/source/church mapped ant lots of "historical" places pretty much unknown. But I like to stare at them at my desk or in the tent. They now are available online too, and it's true you don't get as much the "big pucture" and mental wandering you get with a paper map.

But I can't seem to be able to ride following a paper map on small backcountry roads without missing a turn every 5 to 10km, much to my despair!

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