egranlund

Hey all,

I just bought a set of rollers for when I don't feel like going outside and I used it as an opportunity to check out the "Bike Fast Fit" app on my iPad to see if I could get to the bottom of some pain I'm having.

The issues I'm having are:

• Neck pain after about 20-30 minutes. I've been trying more to keep my neck down while biking, but I think that might only be part of the problem.
• IT band issues with my left knee (I had the knee issue when I used to run as well, so I think it might just be an issue with my knee, PT just gave me some stretches which help _a lot_)
• The past week or so my back has been bothering me, but I think it might be work related (office worker).

I think some of it might be related to my form but I'm also thinking that I may also need to put my seat back just a tad.

Anyone have any suggestions?

Here is the report I generated using the app with all the angles I measured: https://www.dropbox.com/s/yxmrsgfcp5...%2097.pdf?dl=0

Here is the video:

Background information:

Been riding for about 4 months now, I generally ride 40-60 miles a week (bike commute 4 days and recreational on the weekend).

Bike is 56cm, I am around 5'10".

This was my second time using the rollers. I warmed up for 15 minutes prior to making the video.

chaadster

Everything looks fine to me, in the sense that there's nothing weird about your setup. I might raise your saddle a pinch, but I doubt that's causing the pain.

But, since something is causing pain, I'd start by asking if you're otherwise comfortable, specifically on the saddle and at the bars. Causes of pain are not always at the source, so perhaps that would suggest some avenues of attack.

If you are comfy, then I'd move on to look at having you tipping your pelvis forward more. Seat up a bit, and lower the stem.

If you want to try this, it looks like you can remove the stem and spacers from underneath and reinstall the stem with the spacers above. You could also remove the stem from the steerer and handlebar both, and flip it over so the angle points downwards, though this may give a more pronounced and dramatic drop than doing the spacer thing, but it's easy enough to do/undo and may be worth a try.

Now, it may also be that at just 4mos, if you've got just a few longer rides under your belt, you're still just getting acclimated to riding. How long is the commute? Do you experience pain then as well? Are you riding with a backpack?

egranlund

Thanks for your reply

I'm comfortable on the saddle, not as comfortable on the bars and I have to shift my hand position around a lot. I don't normally ride on the hoods for very long because it gets uncomfortable and generally switch a little further back on the hoods, the tops or the drops. I am probably the most comfortable hand wise on the drops but then I feel like I can't see anything without craning my neck.

Longest ride so far is 60 miles. Commute is between 2 to 9 miles in the morning, and 9 miles on the way home (I sometimes take the light rail in the morning if I'm very sleepy). I ride with a trunk pack on the rear rack. I generally ride about 30 miles once a week on the weekends, though I haven't for a week or so because life.

I don't generally experience pain while commuting. It's really only on the longer rides.

chasm54

I'd definitely say the saddle could do with being a bit higher. Whether this has anything to do with the pain you are experiencing, I don't know.

Like chaadster says, it may just be that you aren't yet used to the position. When I returned to road biking after several years off, I had some back and neck pain for a while, which had me thinking that I needed a setup with a shorter reach. But in fact, as time went on I found it more comfortable to be more stretched out, not less.

JPeters

Looks to me like you might need to straighten your back a little. I'm an office worker too, and if I don't do my regular yoga routine my posture goes to hell and I get pains in the neck too (though not while riding admittedly).

FrenchFit 

Well, referring the Cobb Cycling videos I'd say your seat is too low and you are not sufficiently rotating your pelvis forward and flattening your back. You are caught in transition between somewhat upright and somewhat rotated. You can mimic the problem at a kitchen counter, bend from the waist and try raising your head, then rotate your pelvis. My personal experience has been when I feel a little neck or shoulder discomfort first thing I think about is my pelvis position on the saddle, and that usually does the trick. Or, I'll often ride a bike with a shorter top tube and maintain a flat back a little more upright and a little less rotated (commuting, touring).

egranlund

I had a feeling this might be part of it. The saddle on this bike _killed_ me for a good month, but now it's pretty comfy. My neck pain has decreased since I started riding, but it's still enough to discourage me from longer rides


Hmmmm. How did you find these yoga routines? Do you go to a class or something? I normally do a random assortment of leg stretches and that helps a ton when I'm just sitting around, I haven't noticed much difference once I'm on the bike though.

I also I do have a pain on the left side of my neck when just going around my routine, so I might be more susceptible to strain from the bike. The pain I experience on the bike is also generally on the left but it becomes a burning type pain that is a lot stronger than normal "background" pain.

berner

My solution to any sort of discomfort or pain is to exercise the involved muscles more. As chasm said above, your neck pain may resolve itself in time but you can help things along with exercise. If my neck is acting up, I strengthen the neck muscles with a weighted head band which is actually a set of ankle weights of 2.5 lbs each velcroed together. I do the same for knee discomfort with ankle weights of 10 pounds.

JPeters

I began yoga by just looking at videos on youtube, and finding some poses online - there are plenty of resources. With enough trial and error you find what works for you. It's great to take a class, however, as you can save a lot of time, make sure your breathing and pacing is good too, and learn things you would never discover yourself. Yoga is great, and improved my tennis and football (soccer) ability too, I'd advocate it even if you didn't have pains.

I also got a really stiff neck last winter from riding without a scarf in quite cold weather. Not sure if that's relevant in this case, but if you're sweating and riding fast enough in a breezy or slightly cold temp then that isn't great for your muscles either.

chaadster

Given this, I'm going to suggest that you flip the stem so that's it's angling downward; unbolt the face plate, remove bars, loosen steerer bolts, remove top cap bolt, pull stem, turn it upside-down, and reinstall. Also raise the seat a bit, but do not adjust fore/aft setting just yet.

It looks like flipping the stem will put the tops between where the drops and tops are now, but more importantly, lower and extend the reach to the hoods, which is probably where you want your comfort grip to be, particularly as a commuter, so that you can cover the breaks easily.

Give the flipped stem a good ride and see how it feels. You're going to have to hold your head up a bit more, so you may feel that in different muscles, but think about rotating your pelvis forward and stretching at the lower back to flatten out and relieve any neck strain.

Let us know how that goes, and if the hip tilting/lower back flattening works, I think we're onto something, and may want to dial in your seat position if it feels like you're sitting on a different, less comfy part of the saddle.

egranlund

Thanks for the suggestions everyone.

It'll probably be a week before I have the time to mess around with anything but the seat (which I already adjusted up). When I get the chance I'll make the adjustments and report back

Igualmente

I've had both IT band troubles (not from cycling), and neck pain (and resulting headaches) from cycling. Have gotten rid of the IT band problem and am now making progress on the neck front, both times with the assistance of a physiotherapist. The causes of your troubles can easily be different from the causes of mine, so you may want to seek the advice of someone who is knowledgeable and who can assess you in person. BF ain't great for in-person assessments.

My IT band work involved a handful of movements to stretch and strengthen muscles around the IT band, but the most significant for me, in terms of relieving and now preventing pain has been what the yoga people call the "clam". You'll find a lot of demonstrations online... it is really a basic movement requiring not more than a floor to lie on. In my experience, direct attempts to stretch/roll the IT band itself were useless. Others will have different experiences.

For neck pain, I tried the advice of rotating hips forward, flattening back, etc etc etc. Not a lot of help to me. And I have a bike with pretty relaxed geometry (i.e. a tall head tube so the handlebars are not low). On the advice of a physio, I'm now doing a bunch of things (at home) that are now allowing me to ride for well over an hour (used to be 10 to 15 minutes before trouble set in). Most important, I think, I'm doing a standing version of an exercise for strengthening deep neck flexors (see here for a lying down version: How to deal with common cycling ailments - BikeRadar). I'm also doing a bunch of stretching exercises for my neck.

If you wear glasses for riding, also be aware that you may be having to lift your head even higher and causing more neck pain if your glasses sit too low on your face.

For me, flipping the stem down would make things worse. I will wait until I have stronger neck flexors before I begin to lower and stretch out my position again.

Carbonfiberboy 

This is a good bike fit video IMO:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z04uoO7U_SA

Note how straight her back is, even when she is low, and how stretched out she is.

You're on the right track with the stretching: it's impossible to stretch an IT band, but it's important to stretch the muscles that connect near it. Another thing that's been a big help for me as I've aged is core work. I use the Core Advantage book. I took ~9 months to go through all the exercises in the book. Core is a lot more than back and stomach muscles. Couldn't recommend it more highly.

jyl

That is a good video.

I wonder if the OP is rocking his hips a little. Seems to be more trunk and upper body movement than necessary. Saddle does not look too high. Could be you just need more time riding to get your hips and pedal action even more fluid.

I agree with rotating hips forward, straightening spine, that will reduce the neck bend (assuming constant bar position).

jcb3

Just got some help on a similar matter in the over 50 (didn't notice this group) -

I discovered my issue was that I was scrunching/tightening my shoulders - including holding the handlebars too tight (something I recall is common on rollers) and trying to straighten my back - when I let my shoulders relax and droop - neck pain was significantly reduced

Good luck - Joe

woodcraft

It looks like your cleats may be forward from the ball of the foot, which would add stress to the achilles & leg generally. Better cleats further back than further forward.

For rough saddle height, pedal backward w/ heels on the pedals- legs should pretty much straighten, but have fluid motion. I would guess your saddle could raise more than an inch.

Arch support can be key- more so than walking, since the feet don't flex (much) in cycling shoes. Substantial arch support allows the legs to track in an even plane, & frees muscles from trying to keep the legs that way.

IME, IT band issues are often about too much, too soon. Tendons take much longer to strengthen than muscles.

egranlund

Thanks for the continued suggestions everyone.

I have raised my saddle a little bit (maybe 1/2 inch) and lowered my bars one spacer (not sure if these are standard measures or not??).

I've been trying to focus on relaxing and stretching at work and at home and relaxing while I'm on the bike. Checking out yoga routines and just general resources on stretching and posture, my lack of flexibility might be related to the issues I'm having. Mostly I think I have a pretty bad case of "computer hunch" and I've been trying to focus on keeping my shoulders back and relaxed. Consciously doing this on the bike is a little difficult, but it's getting easier. (page 2 of this doc is what I'm talking about). The side effect of all of this is that I'm not in nearly as much pain just sitting on the computer at work as I was before.

I will also take a look at the pedal stroke video mentioned above. I was experimenting with my pedal stroke on the ride to work yesterday, and while I was moving like a snail, my knees felt a lot better when I got in.

I haven't gotten the chance to take any longer rides lately (life!). But I've been doing my normal bike commute just fine (relatively) pain free - around 9 miles each way 3-4 times a week.

Hopefully I'll get a chance to take a long ride this weekend

I'll let you guys know how it goes

Chi_Z

You want to distripute your body weight between your back and arm. Lower back pain usually means seat is too low or stem is too high. When you start to get shoulder pain then it's too much weight on your arms. Luckly stem and seat height are easy to change. Bring a 5mm hex on your ride and play with the heights