Alias530

I'm 6'6" and had been riding a 61cm Fuji Gran Fondo for the last year. I always had a little back pain but it ever so slowly was going away. A few people said the bike looked too small so I bought a 64cm Trek Emonda.

After an initial fitting when I picked the bike up, I had a little bit of back pain but not as much so I thought I was headed in the right direction. After a few hundred miles I got a real fit. They dropped my seat 5mm from the initial fit and lowered the stem by 1 spacer, everything else was perfect according to them.

Now I have next to zero back pain but knee pain has showed up. It seems like with a 5mm seat height difference, I'm destined to have either back pain OR knee pain. Any suggestions? The back pain is more intense than the knee pain, but the knee pain lasts for 24-48 hours after riding while the back pain is only mid-ride.

Thanks in advance.

andr0id

Did you change your cleats at all? Knee pain can also be due to your cleats not aligned to your natural rotation. Note that this may not mean neutral and may not be the same for left and right.

jyl

Where is the knee pain? Front, back, sides?

Is it affected by what gear you use, how hard you pedal?

Alias530

Nope, same cleats/shoes/pedals.
Kind of in the center of the joint. It's actually not when I ride at all, only the day or two after just moving about my daily life. Walking, standing up, etc

Igualmente

1) Any chance the knee pain is due to something non-bike related (eg new shoes?)? Seems odd that it takes a up to two days to show up after a ride.

2) Have you increased distance ridden since the fitting? If you are going for longer rides, that may be why you suddenly have an issue.

3) Have you looked for a happy medium? Probably won't have much if any effect, but you could try raising the saddle back up 3mm and seeing how your back and knee feel for a ride or two. I'd be surprised if there is a difference, but it takes minimal effort, cost and time to try it out.

Alias530

slightly longer rides but they are in place of my longer mountain rides so my joints are seeing the same volume

the pain shows up a few hours after the ride and lasts up to 2 days. I cycle about 4 days a week so it's pretty much constant. Sorry if that wasn't clear

Igualmente

OK, so the main change was a fit, and the changes there do not sound huge. I guess I'd think about trying the saddle slightly higher (maybe 3mm), but I doubt there'd be a major difference.

If the saddle setback changed at all during the fit, that might also have some effect.

I'd consider going back to the fitter to see if they have anything to say.

Last thing: you might not be able to tell what works and what doesn't until you give your knees some time to recover. I can't say how long, but continuing with significant riding 4 days a week when your knees don't really recover might make it hard to figure out what will help. You may have an overuse injury that is only going to stay with you until you both recover and stop whatever is causing it.

Alias530

If I spend some time on the foam roller, the pain goes away sooner, but that's not something I've had to do previously.

Another thing I thought of is the weather change. Is colder weather affecting my joints? I'm in CA so "colder" is just 60-70 instead of 90-110 but it's still a change.

Bornco

Please check to see if the width between your cranks (Q factor) has changed. If your new bike is slightly narrower and your seat is slightly lower, your knee may kick out to the side at the top of the pedal stroke (either a little or a lot) and this could be the cause of your problems.

If this seems to be the problem, you can start by moving your cleat position to the outside of your show, this will increase your stance width a little. If this helps, but doesn't seem to be enough you can check into pedal spacers.

I do think your idea of raising your seat a little will probably help your knee and irritate your back. I do think both problems can be ironed out with a little trial and error.

Good luck and I hope you're riding pain free soon!!

Alias530

I'm using the same exact saddle, but how do I check my q factor?

Igualmente

Q-factor is the distance between the outer faces of the cranks. There is more information here: Bicycle Cranks. It is the main way to measure the sideways (lateral) distance between the two pedals. There may be a better way to measure it, but what you can do is align one crank/pedal to the downtube and measure from the center of the tube to the outer face of the crank. Repeat for the other crank (which should be the same, but two measurements are usually better than one). Add together for the q-factor.

If one bike has a significantly different q-factor from the other, some adjustment in cleat position on shoe may be in order (as Bornco mentioned). OTOH, you did have quite a few miles on the bike without trouble.

With this kind of thing, all sorts of variables can come into play (q-factor, float, cleat positioning...). Again, I'd be thinking as the fitter if there was anything that might require follow-up.

I wouldn't expect 60 or 70 degree temperatures to be an issue for knees, but I'm Canadian, so take that opinion with a grain of salt.

By foam roller, do you mean work on your IT band? Is this IT band pain, or have you had it before?

Alias530

My new bike has what is marketed as "the widest bottom bracket on the market" so I presume that would affect q factor?

I moved over my pedals from my old bike and I'm using the same saddle, shoes, and cleats.

I don't have actual pain in my IT band, but foam rolling it seems to help the pain. I'm guessing my IT band is tight and is pulling my knee out of alignment, so rolling it out lets my knee go back to normal.

Bornco

Igualmente had a great definition of Q angle and a good way for measuring. Thanks!!

I did realize that you hadn't changed your seat, what I meant is that if your seat position is 5mm lower this can tend to make your knees drift outward more at the top of the pedal stroke. This would be exacerbated if your Q position is wider than your old bike. Igualmente was right on target with how to fix this as well.

Another thought is to check your crank lengths between the two bikes and make sure they are the same. Longer cranks can sometimes exacerbate knee issues.

I hope this helps,

Bornco

jyl

I'm bothered by your description of the pain as internal to the joint.

Try adjusting your fit and lighten up on the riding, but if that doesn't make the pain go away, I'd go visit your doctor.

Alias530

It's half that and half at the knee cap I guess. It seems to have gone away for now with extensive foam rolling and stretching every day for the last week, we will see if it stays that way.

Crank is the same length, both 175. It's gone for now so maybe it was just an initial adjustment to the bike? I'll go back to the fitter if it continues.

Igualmente

Agreed.

This could be IT band related, but could very well be something else. It will help a person diagnose you if you can tell them where you feel the pain in as much detail as possible and what activities make it worse or where it doesn't happen at all.

There are many fit related changes that can help, and so a fitter may be useful there. But you may also need to recover first and work on some aspect of your physical fitness that makes you susceptible to knee or IT band issues. Hard to tell from where I sit.