General Geoff

As someone with a 105 5800 setup on a new bike I got last week, I did my share of tweaking the FD as well to get things as close to perfect as possible. I watched and followed this video:


At least according to Art, there should be as little slack as possible in the shifter cable, in the small ring position. And that's before introducing more tension with the barrel adjuster.

Kontact 

That sure doesn't sound like the mechanic set it up correctly this time, either.

ridercare@specialized.com or 877-808-8154

tayguer

Fuji stocks an alternate cable pull converter (replacing the shimano pin) for a few of their frames that pushed the cable inboard a cm or so. I'm not sure if they make it exclusively or if it's available somewhere else. It's just a simple plastic piece. That should solve the difficult shifting issue. Any Fuji dealer should be able to order one for you.

As far as the chainline issue - I think it might be more an issue of the FD being placed too far outboard in relation to the BB center. It's pretty common to find a frame that requires the low limit screw to be out to its maximum (derailleur stop bottomed out) to provide just enough clearance for the 1-2mm gap. I'm not sure if this has been remedied on the newer style shimano FD's.

Those two issues combined are probably making it particularly difficult to set up, because you're dealing with a cable position that requires an excessive amount of tension to operate, combined with very little gap on the inside cage. The incorrect cable routing (over the top) is probably the best you can get right now, and is what I usually do if I don't have the Fuji cable pull converter available.

smashndash

Geoff, I watched the video and noticed a few odd things. 1) The way the video says to set up tension (from the high trim position) makes sense. I put my bike in that position to see what the clearance was. It was close to 0mm. This means, according to the video, that the tension is adequate.

But then I put my bike in the low trim position and cross chained (small-small). There was a huge amount of rub on the outer plate. I put my bike in the easy-easy gear in the low trim position and there was almost 0 rub (something I believe should not happen). Of course, in the low position in the easy-easy gear, there is significant cable slack.

I'm not a professional, but wouldn't this all be caused by the tail end of the derailleur being tilted inwards too much? Tilting the mech outwards more would a) stop the rubbing when crossing in the low trim and b) increase the clearance to the inner plate when crossing in the high trim. So with the clearance increased, we would be able to safely increase tension. Thus, the initial leverage would be better *and* the low trim position would be significantly more outboard. Seems to me that my symptoms would be applicable to any FD that is tail-in as opposed to parallel or tail out. Can anyone comment on this?

I've taken some photos to further clarify the problem:
https://imgur.com/gallery/AIROj

Kontact 

Did you ever check your chainline to make sure the crank was assembled correctly? The center of the outer ring should be more or less 46mm from the center of the seat tube.


I still think you should call Specialized. This is going on months of the bike not working.

redlude97

So its only rubbing in small+small? That would be fine with me since you shouldn't use that gear combination anyways

smashndash

Just measured with a ruler. It's 46.5, 47ish mm, but I'm pretty sure my ruler is also not exactly lab grade accurate.
What would I say to specialized? I really feel that the derailleur is just set up wrong and once it's set up right it'll work fine.

See I would be too, but Shimano states that you're supposed to be able to do that now. The chain rubbing *isn't* the problem. I think it's a symptom of the cage being tilted inwards.

Kontact 

I would say, "My local Specialized dealer has never been able to get my front shifting to work properly. How do I get it properly serviced to work as designed, and if it can't be serviced how do I return the bike?" This should cause Specialized to find a solution, be it a different dealer, tech help for your dealer, a new crank, a new FD or something else.

Specialized and their dealer owe you a working bike. This has gone on way too long for a brand new, factory spec bike.

redlude97

Are you talking about inwards vertically or rotationally? On the Allez the riveted FD hanger probably doesn't allow much rotational positioning, but you should be able to use the small hex screw to push the bottom of the derailluer outwards if you think that is the issue.

smashndash

So I think I was wrong. It may be that the tail was tilted outwards (and the front inwards, but whatever). I bought the FD R8000 hoping it would magically solve all my problems but I ended up not even being able to install it parallel to the chainrings. See these images:

https://imgur.com/gallery/27GCj

One picture is about as "inboard" as I can get it, and the other is as "outboard" as I can get it. I'm supposed to be able to install it at least 2mm inboard, I think. But it looks like the brazed on mount is misaligned. So here's the thread I started about that:

https://www.bikeforums.net/bicycle-m...000-setup.html

The bike is in the shop now. Again. Let's see what happens.

smashndash

Finally got my hands on an R7000 crank off eBay. Just got the bike today. Note that this new crank is a compact and the old was was semi compact so this isn't a direct substitute.

First impressions: shifting from little little to big little is flawless as far as I can tell. Yet to ride it. I have all 4 trim positions.

No rub in small big (easiest) or small small (crossed, in trim position). Decent amount of rub in bigxbiggest 3 cogs I believe, even with trim. It's honestly hard to tell because of the plastic guard inside the cage and due to how LOUD my drivetrain is (that's probably going to be my next rabbit hole). But overall I do believe there was a substantial change and I look forward to testing it on the road.

My early conclusion is that everyone who has ever ridden a praxis Alba crank is crazy for saying that the shifting is anywhere near that of Shimano. Or maybe something else is at play here. Maybe the old crank was just installed wrong all this time (the wave washer was on the drive side btw).

cpach

I'm glad it's working well for you. I'm surprised that the Praxis rings shifted poorly for you however--my experience is that they're the only other things that match Shimano for shift quality (haven't tried wickwerks and some other uncommon brands).

smashndash

Not sure if the rings were to blame here. They don't control where they are positioned relative to the frame. Pretty sure it was the cranks' issue. The actual shift quality is fine on the Praxis rings.

Slightspeed

I realize this is a zombie thread, but I had a 2007 Roubaix Elite 105 triple that intermittently dropped the chain off the big outside ring. The dealer had several shots at fixing it. I took it to a different local shop, not a Specialized dealer who figured out the FD was installed at an incorrect angle, not straight with the frame. In the intervening years, the 105 FD broke at the pivot pin, and I replaced it with an Ultegra unit, being careful to maintain it at an angle parallel to the frame centerline. Not the same problem as above, but it might help somebody.

Troul 

A remedy that has worked in my experience is going with a BB that pulled the chain line of the crank inboard more. That distance will be a YMMV as their was some trial & error involved & also how much tolerance the frame has before interference becomes a concern. IIRC, 5mm seems to ring a bell. The bicycle is no longer around, but it did go to a new owner.
Cross chaining before the change did make for a noisey ride, but afterward I will say the noise was no longer an issue. I am under the assumption that most manufacturers tend to slap in a "common" sized bb to keep costs down, which in turn limits the users ability to select certain components.

congaree

You went way beyond what was should be expected of a customer, paying hard earned cash, here....I would have demanded the LBS fix the bike to your satisfaction or take it back with a full refund, under threat of small claims court and a whole hell of a lot of bad publicity. @Kontact had it exactly right...but your bike, your choice. In any event, if you're happy with what you got, then it's a win for you.

smashndash

It's really hard to have the confidence to take a big shop to court as a college kid when everyone I talk to tells me I'm worried about nothing and I shouldn't be cross chaining anyway and that black plastic is meant for the chain to slide on and ....
I've never owned a bike better than mine. This is my first year of biking. Personally, at this stage in my "career", I just want a bike that I can forget about when riding (which is genuinely a high standard for someone like me). Unfortunately, after riding my bike for the first time with the new crank I've detected a click that happens every time a crank arm reached the 6 o clock position... So not all is well. I'm also looking at getting a new rear wheel as I indicated in my "one cross? Noodle wheel" thread. I've had so many issues with this bike that I'm practically disillusioned with the entire sport. But it's too much fun for me to quit, and I've got nothing else I'd rather spend my money on. So I guess you can say I'm hooked. For better or for worse.

TiHabanero

About 7 years ago I had the exact same issue with a Trek. Nothing worked until we did some comparative measurements with one that was absolutely spot on. Turns out the ft der mount was riveted to the frame incorrectly. Got a replacement frame and all was good.

congaree

Yeah, I understand your point...I was certainly there once myself...I remember feeling like I had a 'kick me, I'm a poor college student' sign taped to my back when I was in your boat, so many years ago. But, when I read your story, it just made me angry at the LBS...they really treated you badly and don't deserve the business. But, in a college town, that's the way it works...especially with book stores. Well, college is about learning and not all of the lessons are in the classroom. Either way, don't get down on cycling (I'm sure you're smart enough to know that)....you got taken advantage of here (and I suspect that with this LBS, you aren't the only one). The fault lies with the LBS and/or the company that makes the bike. At a minimum, though, you should express you displeasure with those responsible, if for no other reason, they can't honestly claim 'well, nobody has ever complained to us before' to their next victim. In any event...biking is worth it...even if the particular bike isn't.

smashndash

believe it or not, a more experienced friend of mine was advising another about where to get a new bike and specifically told him to not go where I had bought my bike. "they'll sell you a bike and there'll be something wrong with it. You'll take it in and they won't fix it. They'll say you gotta buy an expensive part to fix it". I was apalled to hear this because it almost exactly described what had happened to me. All the memories of my friends grimacing when I told them I planned on getting a bike from that shop because there was a sale came back. I didn't take those very seriously because I figured... A Specialized bike is a Specialized bike. How bad could it possibly be? Now I know.

And I've crashed twice (not including minor spills) and even gotten an overuse injury in just my first year. It's going to take a lot more than a creaky bike to make me leave.

congaree

Indeed...hang in there. I'll bet you're next bike is going to be so much better!