smashndash

I'm a huge fan of dead silent bikes. I really don't enjoy the "clickety clack" sound my 5800 drivetrain makes in many gears while pedaling. Until now, I thought this was due to the chain engaging the cassette
I disassembled the jockey wheels while cleaning up the drivetrain and noticed that the bushing system is, in a word, basic. I now believe that most of my drivetrain noise is actually created by the pulley wheels.
Now I know that CeramicSpeed has an oversized pulley for $500 that saves 0.8 watts when you average 300W or whatever. But are there any (much) cheaper derailleur cage replacements that advertise increased efficiency by using larger pulleys and steel ball bearings? How much quieter would one of these be?

zze86

What makes you think the jockey wheels need replacing other than the "bushing system looks basic"? If your rear derailleur is making noise, it's probably not adjusted correctly or is getting worn out. If this is on your 2017 Specialized Allez in your profile, have you had the bike tuned up since buying the bike? Cables stretch, parts need to get bedded in and such. If you bought the bike new from a bike shop, most will do this tune up for free.

cpach

I'd bet you $20 that the pulley wheels are unrelated to the sound of you drivetrain. I would first ensure that your hanger is laser straight, your derailleur is in good physical condition and set up perfectly, and that your cable and housing run without friction.

If you want nicer pulleys I'd just recommend putting Ultegra or Dura Ace pulleys in. Ultegra gets a cartridge bearing on one and a ceramic bushing on the other, and Dura Ace gets cartridges on both. The upper pulley is absolutely supposed to have a little float in it--some aftermarket pulleys don't and they make the drivetrain noisier by not allowing the pulley to self center on the chain.

Also if the chain is not Shimano I'd try and see if a Shimano 11 speed chain didn't run quieter.

sdmc530

I have the same drivetrain and its the noisy for sure as well. But my LBS mechanic says its running perfectly when I had him check and it is running perfectly, just a bit noisy. He advised me to try a different chain before running through parts just to quite something that is working perfectly. So I am going to try a different chain, but I was strongly advised not to fix what isn't broken.

Its noisier in the bigger(easier) gears than the grinder gears.

good luck!

smashndash

Yep. This exact my experience as well. Big ring + easier gears is quite loud, and as far as I know this is completely normal. I'm not sure why everyone is treating this as though something is wrong. Do people think a 5800 drivetrain is supposed to be totally quiet?

I'm not asking to bring my 5800 back to "new". I'm just wondering what upgrades I can make to reduce noise/inefficiency and I thought that jockey wheels were one of them. Since people disagree with this claim, what do people think causes drivetrain noise? Are there any economical upgrades I can make to get rid of it?

Btw: chain is Shimano 105, shifting is perfect and I know what chain jump sounds like (ie when the derailleur is not perfectly aligned with a cog). This is not that, as far as I can tell.

EDIT: this bike does have a few miles on it and hasn't been maintained super diligently. Could a noisy drivetrain be indicative of any other issues? Like a worn chain or cassette?

CliffordK

The Ultegra jockey wheels (and maybe 5800) use a simple ceramic bushing in a plastic jockey wheel and caps with tiny rubber seals.

That design is effective since it gives a tiny amount of right/left play which actually makes the derailleurs shift better, and it is simple.

If I remember right, I think Campy uses a bearing for the bottom tension pulley, and a bushing for the top guide pulley.

Many of the import Chinese direct jockey wheels are CNC aluminum with roller bearings. They may well be good for the lower tension pulley. However, you have two issues... aluminum wheels may be noisier than plastic wheels, and the upper wheel may not have the float that the bushing wheels have, and thus derailleur adjustment may be more unforgiving.

sdmc530

AnkleWork

Saves 0.8w compared to what?

BTW thanks for the leading zero.

fietsbob

In my Brompton , 3 speed, the chain tensioner pulleys are Nylon Tacx, now,

the plastic is quieter than the stock harder plastic...

I leave you to solve your situation ..

Davet

smashndash

Yeah the dura ace pulley wheel seems to be under $40 for the set which is... Fine. I'm willing to pay that if it lasts even a couple years.

Does anyone know if those are truly plug and play with a 5800 (or, in case I feel like upgrading, R7000) derailleur? Or are there differences in the arm design?

Troul 

Moving parts will make noise, but how much will determine a lot based on its material & what it is making contact with.
Two ways to change the noise can be relative to how soft or hard the part is.

If quiet is sought after, a softer/pliable material might be considered, however, you'll need to be mindful of its service life. Being soft it can wear faster, requiring replacement sooner.
Should less maintenance/durability be needed, a harder & tighter toleranced material would be used. Downside would be an increased in noise.

The happy medium is very hard to achieve, but can be doable at the risk of adding more components (more parts to fail as well as more lbs)
Try finding a set of slightly softer der wheels equipped with a journal bearing.

cpach

Yeah, there's no problem installing these wheels onto 5800.

sdmc530

@cpach is correct they just plug and go....however my mechanic said the chain makes these quite noisy not the jockey wheels. Not sure how he came to that conclusion but he is a great mech and never steered me wrong so I am going to change chain after this riding season and see if it gets better.

what chain are you running? I have the KMC 11EL I think is the model, the silver one that is light weight. A nice chain......

cpach

I think KMC chains are fine, but I'd be surprised if you found a chain that ran more quiet than HG701 Ultegra.

dsbrantjr

Somebody had to ask it: what chain lube are you running? Have you applied it recently?

sdmc530

was waiting for this to pop up......I didn't want to be "that" guy LMAO!!

smashndash

I currently have a 105 chain. My next one will probably be ultegra. And the chain/cassette was definitely my first hunch and I haven't ruled it out yet. I don't have any experience with bikes other than my own so I have no idea how quiet a high end bike is. But a man can dream, right?

smashndash

Entirely fair. Yes I apply finish line Teflon dry lube frequently ish. About once every 200 miles? Should I be lubing more often than that? I drop some lube on each roller.

cpach

With a dry lube you should probably lube more often. Finish line themselves suggests its good for rides up to a hundred miles. I think lubes like that make some sense in extremely dusty conditions but work generally worse in more general conditions. Your drivetrain will be significantly quieter with a wet lube.

smashndash

Well I live in smokey ol California so it's about as dry as it gets short of the Sahara. I don't know if the noise is worth the additional grit/cleaning involved with oils, but I'll keep that in mind.

Hondo Gravel

sdmc530

Very True! I broke one this year but yes, they are a part that just doesn't break or die.

sdmc530

Yes, couldn't agree more, dry lube more often than others. Dry lube is more noisy than wet also. I have played with lubes but found it didn't make much difference. I am just of the understanding that the 105-5800 is just noisy.

Still trying myself though

Davet