Do you install new ball bearings every time you service your hubs?
#26
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I am surprised at the forum mechanics' inclination to just replace them. I thought that hub bearing balls are pretty much grease and forget, until there is obvious wear and flat spots, and I've serviced mine dozens of times without replacing them. Is this more of a "first do no harm" type of advice, or do you really replace the balls that often?
Being me, they often go for a few years between service so I need to be more thorough.
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I find that inspection is an important part of maintenance for me, because I'm not running a pro shop, and only get a few chances to improve my skills. Looking for wear is a way to see if I'm treating the bike right. By the time the parts are clean enough to inspect, most of the time is spent, and so I wouldn't really save time by disposing of the balls. And we're talking a couple minutes anyway.
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No. I volunteer in one co-op and two other non-profit shops. In all three shops, we re-use bearings, even have volunteers sorting and restocking. We aim to reduce waste, keep costs down, and have something for work-for-bike folks to do. (We also patch used tubes, salvage spokes, fix BSOs many would throw away just so some kid gets a free bike, etc.)
#29
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How much do you charge per hour?
How long does it take to clean and inspect the bearings?
It takes some solvent, at least on a rug, then dry rug to remove the solvent, then looking at each ball, just to be sure it's fine.
While replacing them all with new ones costs about 1$ per wheel. With 0% risk of reusing a worn ball.
Which is better for you, and/or for the customer?
I often even don't bother to lift a dropped ball, not for being lazy, but I think that picking it up and cleaning it "costs" more.
In a world more centered on saving the planet and making things more durable (with less polution), it would make a lot more sense to re-use all that can be reused.
How long does it take to clean and inspect the bearings?
It takes some solvent, at least on a rug, then dry rug to remove the solvent, then looking at each ball, just to be sure it's fine.
While replacing them all with new ones costs about 1$ per wheel. With 0% risk of reusing a worn ball.
Which is better for you, and/or for the customer?
I often even don't bother to lift a dropped ball, not for being lazy, but I think that picking it up and cleaning it "costs" more.
In a world more centered on saving the planet and making things more durable (with less polution), it would make a lot more sense to re-use all that can be reused.
#30
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+1 to above.
I don't usually replace them if they are OK, but when I do I always use loose balls not caged.
I don't usually replace them if they are OK, but when I do I always use loose balls not caged.
#31
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Depends, if its high end XT etc and its in good condition ie preventative maintenance then i usually clean and keep, but they must be shiny and not dull. Any damage to any part and its replacment time.
#32
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If it is a hub that is regularly maintainenced, I inspect the balls. If I open the hub up and it looks like junk, most likely all of the balls are toast and I dont bother inspecting. In the cases i do inspect, I use a magnifying glass and a strong light to inspect each ball. If I can visually detect any flaw, I replace that particular ball. With regular maitainence on a rear hub, typically 3 or so balls need replacing.
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If it is a hub that is regularly maintainenced, I inspect the balls. If I open the hub up and it looks like junk, most likely all of the balls are toast and I dont bother inspecting. In the cases i do inspect, I use a magnifying glass and a strong light to inspect each ball. If I can visually detect any flaw, I replace that particular ball. With regular maitainence on a rear hub, typically 3 or so balls need replacing.
High quality, grade 25 balls don't cost much in some quantity over 100, it makes sense to just replace them all at once and be good for a long time rather than going a few at a time and using your time to inspect them that closely.
#34
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Campagnolo uses grade 5 in some stuff. Otherwise you can easily match or exceed the original quality.
#36
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Plus elastic deformation of cup and cone material is far greater than deviations that exist with balls with a grade of 25 and lower - so going for grade 5 balls, even with Campagnolo "stuff", makes no gains, not even in theory I think.
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Grade 25 (i.e., the best) ball bearings are cheap, and it is easier to replace them than to clean and inspect them. And my labor time for a hub overhaul is the most costly part of the job, so the bearings are a cheap add-on.
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If You find ANY ball in a race to be bad, I think you should replace ALL of them.
The reasoning being, that all the balls will in a batch will be similar spec, and if you swap in a single new one, you risk having that ball being a slightly different size, even minutely -
This would lead to uneven loading of the race.
Then again, maybe I'm being overly anal about this, but I worked as a mechanic in various capacities for many years, and it's just the way I think - YMMV
#39
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Not to start a war, but I think THIS is a mistake, regardless of how you feel about routine bearing replacement.
If You find ANY ball in a race to be bad, I think you should replace ALL of them.
The reasoning being, that all the balls will in a batch will be similar spec, and if you swap in a single new one, you risk having that ball being a slightly different size, even minutely -
This would lead to uneven loading of the race.
Then again, maybe I'm being overly anal about this, but I worked as a mechanic in various capacities for many years, and it's just the way I think - YMMV
If You find ANY ball in a race to be bad, I think you should replace ALL of them.
The reasoning being, that all the balls will in a batch will be similar spec, and if you swap in a single new one, you risk having that ball being a slightly different size, even minutely -
This would lead to uneven loading of the race.
Then again, maybe I'm being overly anal about this, but I worked as a mechanic in various capacities for many years, and it's just the way I think - YMMV
Tollerances are tollerances - grade 25 is grade 25, no matter which batch it comes from. Elastic deformation of bearing races far exceeds the differences in ball diameters. And they are pretty matched withg grade 100, even more with 25. No matter "which batch" you choose.
I had heard batch and even "wear in" stories from several experienced mechanics. Never had problems if using good quality grade 25 (or better) bearing balls. No measurable difference.
#40
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I never had a problem, because I always followed that routine.
Whether I WOULD have had one, I don't honestly know - But I never took the chance.
If the balls all look good, you're probably fine in just cleaning and re-packing, but if ONE is bad, I'd replace them all.
Like I said, it's just me, and the way I approach mechanical issues.
Whether I WOULD have had one, I don't honestly know - But I never took the chance.
If the balls all look good, you're probably fine in just cleaning and re-packing, but if ONE is bad, I'd replace them all.
Like I said, it's just me, and the way I approach mechanical issues.
#41
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My two cents says----------------------if the balls are totally shiny without pits do not replace them. The reason is they are completely seated in to the races and have full contact. OTOH new balls may NOT totally seat, and would have to wear in. Wear is what you do not want.
#42
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As I collect vintage BMX's I have seen some of the worst wear possible. For me the struggle isn't replacing bearings but cones. Personally though I might be weird but I do use the original bearings and cones if possible, but then again you don't ride a BMX for 1000's of KM's.
#43
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I'm not sure with BMX's I have found where for some reason one to two bearing will be extremely shot like half the bearing is flattened and worn down, but all the rest still seem to be in spec. I'm not sure if it's caused by jumping or if those bearings got seized up for some reason? Where I see the most wear is on old BMX's is the bottom headset bearing is crushed and the top is fine from jumping.
Also you used to see a lot of bent axles in BMX I'm sure that might put some stress on the bearings
#44
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I suspect that modern processes are much tighter for the overall diameter than decades ago when us old guys had to keep batches together.
#45
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Nope.
On my bikes with caged and loose bearings, I clean them, put new grease in, and reassemble.
I only replace the bearings if I'm replacing the races and cones. That's how I was taught to do it.
In 55 plus years, I've never had a bearing fail doing it this way.
On my bikes with caged and loose bearings, I clean them, put new grease in, and reassemble.
I only replace the bearings if I'm replacing the races and cones. That's how I was taught to do it.
In 55 plus years, I've never had a bearing fail doing it this way.
#46
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Well. no less an authority than the late Jobst Brandt had this to say about that:
https://yarchive.net/bike/ball_bearings.html
https://yarchive.net/bike/ball_bearings.html
#47
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I did do a Google search first, but info on this exact question was kinda sparse. Some advice recommended installing brand new bearings at every service, while others said the original bearings could be re-used several times, if not indefinitely, assuming regular servicing.
I'm talking specifically about XT and 105 hubs.
BTW, I'm not agonizing, fixating, or obsessing on stretching out a whole $3 worth of bearings as long as humanly possible, especially not at the expense of the entire hub, I'm simply looking for some general info, and curious what the consensus is.
Thanks.......
I'm talking specifically about XT and 105 hubs.
BTW, I'm not agonizing, fixating, or obsessing on stretching out a whole $3 worth of bearings as long as humanly possible, especially not at the expense of the entire hub, I'm simply looking for some general info, and curious what the consensus is.
Thanks.......
I suppose this can fall into replacing cables, tires/ tubes, grips/tape. Usually, if they are in good condition they stay where they are.
#48
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Not generally. I have had older bikes that I've taken hold of that had some that looked like acorns, and of course I replaced all in those bearings. I've also replaced some caged bearings with loose ones to help extend the life of some damaged races that I've discovered on acquisition of an older bike or two. But if everything looks and feels okay, then everything looks and feels okay. They're steel bearings, not prophylactics...
#49
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I restore a lot of low-end bikes road bikes from the 1970's (Raleigh Grand Prix, etc.) and for the most part re-use the old bearings. I recently purchased several sizes of Grade 25 ball bearings in quantities of 150 or so each for the occasion that I decide to replace the old bearings with new.
An excerpt from Parks website...
"The quality of bearing can be defined by various ratings, such as the rating of ball roundness. A high quality steel ball bearing is consider grade 25. The grade number refers to the tolerance per millionth of an inch. A grade 25 is accurate to 25/1,000,000 of an inch. Less expensive ball bearings may be grade 300, which are less round, at 300/1,000,000 of an inch."
This got me thinking, are the stock bearings on these old road bikes, even though not damaged, as good as new Grade 25 bearings? If not, then it seems to me that replacing the old bearings with those of higher quality would prolong the life of the bikes and in the long run be more environmentally friendly.
An excerpt from Parks website...
"The quality of bearing can be defined by various ratings, such as the rating of ball roundness. A high quality steel ball bearing is consider grade 25. The grade number refers to the tolerance per millionth of an inch. A grade 25 is accurate to 25/1,000,000 of an inch. Less expensive ball bearings may be grade 300, which are less round, at 300/1,000,000 of an inch."
This got me thinking, are the stock bearings on these old road bikes, even though not damaged, as good as new Grade 25 bearings? If not, then it seems to me that replacing the old bearings with those of higher quality would prolong the life of the bikes and in the long run be more environmentally friendly.
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Well. no less an authority than the late Jobst Brandt had this to say about that:
https://yarchive.net/bike/ball_bearings.html
https://yarchive.net/bike/ball_bearings.html
From the link...Kirby Krieger writes:
> Back before the Internet, I and my biking buddies would spend no few
> moments perfecting the adjustment of the bearing surfaces on our
> bikes. We would make sure that wheels reversed direction four times
> before settling with the heaviest point at the bottom. We would
> pack our pedals carefully and be sure they had an effortless spin.
> My question is: was this silly?
Yes it was silly because bearings don't carry loads well without
preload. In the unloaded condition that you were adjusting, the fully
free ball bearing just barely makes contact. Under load the balls
under the axle sink into the race elastically, one at a time as they
pass. This is why you'll notice auto mechanics always adjust front
wheel bearings with preload. This must be done on differential gear
bearings. The most important place on a bicycle for preload is the BB
spindle of the conventional cup and cone type. The spindle should
turn with perceptible drag when rotated by thumb and forefinger...
about 4-5 oz-in torque.
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