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The Race Video Thread!

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The Race Video Thread!

Old 03-30-17, 06:32 PM
  #2651  
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Is a KOM ride a race? Junior back on spring break wanted to grab back the U24 spot and beat Gaimons prior "KOM" segment. I didn't know Gaimon had recently turned a time in the 51:
Anyway good for 3rd.
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Old 03-30-17, 06:42 PM
  #2652  
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Crazy fast time. What kind of power was he doing there?
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Old 03-30-17, 06:44 PM
  #2653  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
Is a KOM ride a race?
KOM attempts are more or less a form of time trialing, which is generally considered a type of race. So, I guess.
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Old 03-30-17, 08:11 PM
  #2654  
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Originally Posted by rubiksoval View Post
Crazy fast time. What kind of power was he doing there?
I don't know. He doesn't ever like have a PM when putting in max efforts.
I'd guess looking at others (330-360) ~340, but just a guess.
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Old 03-31-17, 07:41 AM
  #2655  
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Originally Posted by HTupolev View Post
KOM attempts are more or less a form of time trialing, which is generally considered a type of race. So, I guess.
This was the inspiration for my kid's ride. To us it is racing. Junior has spend 90% of his races that pay nothing (junior and collegiate) so having a recorded record is as fun. Looks like Phil is pretty serious here too.
I think everyone agrees with Phil real pros should win races and ignore Strava KOMs.
But some non-pros (Phill) do get pretty serious.

Note he has two bikes for this - one for this, and one for down. His up bike is not a "legal" road bike.
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Old 03-31-17, 08:49 AM
  #2656  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
I don't know. He doesn't ever like have a PM when putting in max efforts.
I'd guess looking at others (330-360) ~340, but just a guess.
He does use a PM on some efforts but not on max efforts? Why bother?
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Old 03-31-17, 09:01 AM
  #2657  
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Originally Posted by Yep View Post
He does use a PM on some efforts but not on max efforts? Why bother?
We/he doesn't bother. I've posted pages that we see no use for them. They happen to exist on some training wheels and Watts get picked up on that ride.
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Old 03-31-17, 09:08 AM
  #2658  
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Originally Posted by Doge View Post
We/he doesn't bother. I've posted pages that we see no use for them. They happen to exist on some training wheels and Watts get picked up on that ride.
I know you've said you don't really get why people train with power. As long as you guys look at it like this, you will never get it. Knowing how he puts out power on efforts like this could inform his training and enable him to better prep for such events.

Yes, I know he is young and has all that youthful energy and resilience that so many of us now lack, and I also get that both you and he do not want to become one of those people who stare at their screen rather than race by instinct, but I do not understand why you don't put in the effort to fully maximize training as you do trying to build the perfect bicycle for this race?

And as for racing, I put a piece of tape over my computer screen so I do not see what I am doing during the race, as I do not see my power output having much use during a race. Rather, the value is in after the race, reviewing my data, seeing my weaknesses and then finding ways to address them. In some cases, the data shows only minute areas of improvement, but that could mean a 1 or 2 second difference in an event like this, which could be the third place instead of first.
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Old 03-31-17, 10:48 AM
  #2659  
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I should have said we see no use for him to use them. Maybe in the future.

The reason not to fully maximize his training is primarily development cycle/stage through his junior riding and now and in military college.

I expect fall/spring 2018 he will start using a PM, if his coach want's him to.
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Old 04-01-17, 01:09 PM
  #2660  
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open to critique. i feel like in the 3/4 race, I should've realized we weren't moving fast enough and anticipated the swarm coming in from 3-400m out. in that situation, I probably should have attacked and would'veheld maybe 1-5th wheel all the way to the final turn.



nothing much to see here. just more training

Last edited by spectastic; 04-01-17 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 04-01-17, 07:15 PM
  #2661  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
open to critique. i feel like in the 3/4 race, I should've realized we weren't moving fast enough and anticipated the swarm coming in from 3-400m out. in that situation, I probably should have attacked and would'veheld maybe 1-5th wheel all the way to the final turn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BjCFK9KjEI
Only watched it once but that swarm move up the right side at the end... I wonder if you'd be better off sitting another 10-15 wheels back around the bell or just before. If you're really far forward it's hard to see moves develop, and you have to constantly surf the outside edge of the field, wheel overlapped to the outside, so you can instantly respond to a move (like said move on the right). If you were further back you have to gamble you're on the side that moves, but when it moves you'll be able to latch on and get a ride.

Not that we're Cav but he did that with someone, maybe Gerrint Thomas, for a stage in the Tour. Cav was really far back, knew that whoever would move up hard, and just waited for him to move up. Then Cav launched and won the sprint.

You look like you had a good line in that last right turn but had to ease a bit. You were on the curb/kerb/whatever but then lost speed. If you could have maintained speed that'd have helped.

I assume there was someone next to you during the sprint, and you were probably even with other riders during the sprint, meaning you were side by side. If not then you should move over to get on a wheel, if one exists, before jumping again from said shelter.

Have you tried sprinting in bigger gears? Or were you already in your 11 or 12? A lot of times when you shift up you can do yet another little power peak, another jump. You probably have an idea of your power in that sprint so it may be that you don't have any more to give.

The guy Dennis who won looks like he has a decent sprint. The fact that he's a few lengths clear at the finish indicates to me he has a sprint that is at a different level than everyone else in the field. This means that to beat him you have to deal with him first. Although I normally don't race like this, it may be that you need to actually mark him going into the bell and just follow his wheel. His initial jump may shed you off his wheel but if not then you have a chance to hang onto his wheel and try and get around him in the last 50 meters or so. I have a feeling if you go early he'll be able to latch on and just use you as a leadout.

The other thing to do is to weaken Dennis, but realistically he's either strong enough to go with moves or he'll gamble on a field finish and not chase breaks.

If you have a teammate willing to work maybe you and him can take turns leading out the other. This means you go super hard from about 35-40 seconds out, literally sprint speed, and your teammate takes over when you blow, hopefully as you exit the last right bend (in this course set up). Then the following week the two of you switch roles. What this would do is hopefully string out the field so there aren't too many successful swarm moves. A proper leadout is fast enough that most swarm moves don't work; in fact, in a Cat 3-4 race, a proper leadout might leave 5-6 riders left in contention. Remember that it's relatively easy to move up inside a big field even at a field speed of 35 mph, so the leadout needs to be both fast and long. Fast enough to break 35 mph, long enough to string out the field and reduce the shelter available to each following rider. With all the long curves in the course I think you can go a bit longer since the leadout rider can recover a bit in the curves and the curves will help string things out.

I've seen it take 60 seconds to string out a 70 rider field - the first 30 seconds of serious attacks (by a good ex-domestic-pro) I'm still soft pedaling and taking it easy, but then as things keep getting strung out it puts me in difficulty. Doing a short leadout doesn't do enough because there is plenty of shelter for those 20 riders back. You'd need two teammates to do a proper 60 second leadout (25 sec leadout + 20 sec leadout + 15 second sprint) but that would decisively string out the field.
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Old 04-04-17, 10:07 AM
  #2662  
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing View Post
Only watched it once but that swarm move up the right side at the end... I wonder if you'd be better off sitting another 10-15 wheels back around the bell or just before. If you're really far forward it's hard to see moves develop, and you have to constantly surf the outside edge of the field, wheel overlapped to the outside, so you can instantly respond to a move (like said move on the right). If you were further back you have to gamble you're on the side that moves, but when it moves you'll be able to latch on and get a ride.

Not that we're Cav but he did that with someone, maybe Gerrint Thomas, for a stage in the Tour. Cav was really far back, knew that whoever would move up hard, and just waited for him to move up. Then Cav launched and won the sprint.

You look like you had a good line in that last right turn but had to ease a bit. You were on the curb/kerb/whatever but then lost speed. If you could have maintained speed that'd have helped.

I assume there was someone next to you during the sprint, and you were probably even with other riders during the sprint, meaning you were side by side. If not then you should move over to get on a wheel, if one exists, before jumping again from said shelter.

Have you tried sprinting in bigger gears? Or were you already in your 11 or 12? A lot of times when you shift up you can do yet another little power peak, another jump. You probably have an idea of your power in that sprint so it may be that you don't have any more to give.

The guy Dennis who won looks like he has a decent sprint. The fact that he's a few lengths clear at the finish indicates to me he has a sprint that is at a different level than everyone else in the field. This means that to beat him you have to deal with him first. Although I normally don't race like this, it may be that you need to actually mark him going into the bell and just follow his wheel. His initial jump may shed you off his wheel but if not then you have a chance to hang onto his wheel and try and get around him in the last 50 meters or so. I have a feeling if you go early he'll be able to latch on and just use you as a leadout.

The other thing to do is to weaken Dennis, but realistically he's either strong enough to go with moves or he'll gamble on a field finish and not chase breaks.

If you have a teammate willing to work maybe you and him can take turns leading out the other. This means you go super hard from about 35-40 seconds out, literally sprint speed, and your teammate takes over when you blow, hopefully as you exit the last right bend (in this course set up). Then the following week the two of you switch roles. What this would do is hopefully string out the field so there aren't too many successful swarm moves. A proper leadout is fast enough that most swarm moves don't work; in fact, in a Cat 3-4 race, a proper leadout might leave 5-6 riders left in contention. Remember that it's relatively easy to move up inside a big field even at a field speed of 35 mph, so the leadout needs to be both fast and long. Fast enough to break 35 mph, long enough to string out the field and reduce the shelter available to each following rider. With all the long curves in the course I think you can go a bit longer since the leadout rider can recover a bit in the curves and the curves will help string things out.

I've seen it take 60 seconds to string out a 70 rider field - the first 30 seconds of serious attacks (by a good ex-domestic-pro) I'm still soft pedaling and taking it easy, but then as things keep getting strung out it puts me in difficulty. Doing a short leadout doesn't do enough because there is plenty of shelter for those 20 riders back. You'd need two teammates to do a proper 60 second leadout (25 sec leadout + 20 sec leadout + 15 second sprint) but that would decisively string out the field.
dennis is my teammate. in fact after this win by him, I've decided to lead him out in these races, because we're competing against a probable future pro for the jersey. the kid races strong and smart. would've been 3 straight wins for him had he not gotten taken off the course before the sprint in this vid.

After the u turn before the cork screw incline, there was an attack that i followed from 3 riders back. however, he faded quickly, and that allowed riders behind us to swarm. If it were a course with less corners, i'll be more comfortable sitting further back. But this course is hard to move up, even during lulls. what you say regarding fast enough leadout makes sense. field needs to be strung out in order to be controlled. I think I can get a good leadout going. we shall see
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Old 04-06-17, 10:08 PM
  #2663  
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open to critique. i think i shouldnt let all those people pass me on bell lap. but i was pretty spent too

Last edited by spectastic; 04-08-17 at 01:28 PM.
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Old 04-10-17, 09:24 AM
  #2664  
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This is just the Boulder Roubaix venue / feel for the race. It has the P12 finish 1-4 of a new team 303 and The collegiate As. This was our (wife and my) first collegiate RR and we only recently learned how strong some of the riders are. A pile of the As passed the P12 pack that started 2 min ahead. I know this is not a TT, so race dynamics play into this but still interesting. I believe the Rally Pro rider (5th place) is also a collegiate rider who raced P12 this race. And ToC next week. Of course mine is now NOT in the LUX kit and riding in white AF outfit, finished As 2nd.
And Dave Toal was there...
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Old 04-10-17, 09:35 AM
  #2665  
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I can confirm there are several current pros also racing in collegiate fields.

In fact, it's becoming so common, USAC is considering rules to limit eligibility.
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Old 04-10-17, 10:55 AM
  #2666  
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My kid DNF'd this race with a flat and 3 to go. He was due-for. It was a great race. His AF team went in with 2 competitive riders vs 8 from University of Colorado and about 6 from Ft Lewis on the University of Colorado campus.
Simon, the eventual winner sprints from the back, usually last half lap. Daniel, has a sprint, but is more a driver. Daniel in front TTing with a Team USA World U23 X-cross rider sitting in.
This race worked great with Daniel softening up the leaders while Simon tail gunned, rather unknown. With Daniel out, Simon bridged to lead group and took the win (on the wind side) with a 300m sprint.
Daniel in white kit at front early, Simon in dark blue, the winner, while Daniel jumping up and down on the side.
Great victory by a small Club team on the Varsity home court.


Last edited by Doge; 04-10-17 at 10:59 AM.
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Old 04-18-17, 05:27 PM
  #2667  
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Crash!!!
I think (my guess) we had more than a few 1g turns. Corner is off camber a bit. The video does not seem to show it, but this was at the limit cornering. I was hand clearing as many pebbles as a could between laps. Corner was clean.
There were a few slides and recovers (one by the guy that crashed), so pretty safe to say that many were near the limit for equipment and road.
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Old 04-18-17, 06:49 PM
  #2668  
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You say the video doesn't show it but the first time they took it was pretty apparently off camber and on the limit.
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Old 04-18-17, 08:44 PM
  #2669  
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Hmm, looks like he apexed a tad too soon, tried to tighten slightly and that put lean angle/speed over the limit of the tire?
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Old 04-20-17, 09:07 PM
  #2670  
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Video of my first B race. My friend took the vid. He does a great job with these.

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Old 04-21-17, 11:09 AM
  #2671  
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it looks like he crashed because of the yellow centerline paint
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Old 04-21-17, 12:00 PM
  #2672  
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Originally Posted by spectastic View Post
it looks like he crashed because of the yellow centerline paint
Might have been, both points (apex and paint) are good. I'm pretty sure it was not debris as I didn't see any and had hand picked up any rock I saw on that corner. I was expecting a crash as they said they have several every year. I thought it was as close as I see to the limit/over it. FWIW the Euro kids are known to take corners slower than the USA kids. Different (over curbs and sidewalks), but slower.

At the risk of going 41 here I think when on the edge like that tire rubber, age and construction come into play a bit.
If you tilt my son's tire to that angle he was riding it is barely on the tread - if at all. Under load/cornering with a rider it behaves differently and more tread is on the road.
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Old 04-23-17, 07:30 PM
  #2673  
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Brands Cycle Club Ride - Full Ride Recap

This is a group ride recap on this past Saturdays club ride. I share some thoughts, strategies and safety tips while out riding with a group - enjoy!

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Old 04-23-17, 11:35 PM
  #2674  
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Red Kite today, I'm the guy losing at the end. (I got 2nd, vid is from my team mate)

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Old 04-25-17, 02:42 PM
  #2675  
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Originally Posted by Radish_legs View Post
Video of my first B race. My friend took the vid. He does a great job with these.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJ6TmJnHyRM
Which one are you?
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