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Training Status??? (IV)

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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 04-17-17, 11:14 AM
  #8476  
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When my tsb is super negative I find that I sleep really lightly. Drinking a glass of water and eating some protein right before bed seems to help.
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Old 04-17-17, 12:19 PM
  #8477  
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rode a whole hour (+20 minutes longer than my previous best) on the TT bike this morning and it was surprisingly pleasant - finally getting the hang of handling on it! after my first ride i worried it would take much longer. it was a pretty still day on a flat course, but at least im now confident enough to *try* riding it with some winds or descents.

now i just need to worry about how to make it go fast. cruising around at 21/22mph is easy (maybe the same as 18/19mph on the road bike), but going 25mph doesn't really feel a whole lot easier than going 25mph on the road bike.
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Old 04-17-17, 12:23 PM
  #8478  
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Originally Posted by scheibo View Post
rode a whole hour (+20 minutes longer than my previous best) on the TT bike this morning and it was surprisingly pleasant - finally getting the hang of handling on it! after my first ride i worried it would take much longer. it was a pretty still day on a flat course, but at least im now confident enough to *try* riding it with some winds or descents.

now i just need to worry about how to make it go fast. cruising around at 21/22mph is easy (maybe the same as 18/19mph on the road bike), but going 25mph doesn't really feel a whole lot easier than going 25mph on the road bike.
perhaps you have already considered this, but as you get accustomed to the position it may be worth riding around with the shallowest rims you own.

yes, it is good to practice in the position and with full race setup to mimic the handling skills you will need during those races. since you've posted multiple times on this that i've noticed, this might help separate the position/bike from the rest of the gear.
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Old 04-17-17, 01:12 PM
  #8479  
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I have a time trial next week. The last few years ive spent at least 3 weeks on the bike prior to the race.


I haven't touched the bike since September.


Should be a good time
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Old 04-17-17, 04:03 PM
  #8480  
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Originally Posted by tetonrider View Post
perhaps you have already considered this, but as you get accustomed to the position it may be worth riding around with the shallowest rims you own.
yeah, i kind of independently came to this conclusion today as well. on a perfectly calm day the 71mm front wheel is no problem, but i will definitely try switching it out to my road bike's 48mm front wheel. switching to alloy box section rims seems like more of a hassle because i dont want to change the brake pads and i probably wouldnt race on them anyway.
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Old 04-17-17, 05:44 PM
  #8481  
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2.5 hours doing 5' > 15' efforts

Ouch
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Old 04-17-17, 08:02 PM
  #8482  
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5 minutes into an out and back 2x30' set, it starts raining. I am sure it's just going to sprinkle a bit.

Nope.
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Old 04-17-17, 08:29 PM
  #8483  
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Originally Posted by caloso View Post
5 minutes into an out and back 2x30' set, it starts raining. I am sure it's just going to sprinkle a bit.

Nope.
BTDT. I think all of us have.
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Old 04-17-17, 09:14 PM
  #8484  
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at least your ride was short and you were pushing the pace
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Old 04-17-17, 11:49 PM
  #8485  
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35 mins on the rollers, fixed gear. Feels like a grind at first, but once I get it spinning at 100 rpm it's good.

Also, new (to me) bike should be ready tomorrow! Finally, a real bike to ride.. been too long.

PT G3 hub has gone poopy, after having the bearings replace by Saris just a few months ago. Bough a new rear wheel, "just" a plain old 404. So no more power!

After about 8 years of riding with power, I'm about to try to go without it.. we'll see how long that lasts.
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Old 04-18-17, 12:13 PM
  #8486  
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Didn't have it this morning - I could tell when I got up. Too much to drink at friends and family Easter celebration, hard weekend on the bike leaving me sore, late night yesterday w gf hanging out before her trip to Hawaii.

I went to Fiesta Island anyway and somehow managed to complete my first interval, but halfway through the second I pulled the plug. After a moderate day tomorrow (~75 min MTB/trail commute to work) I should be re-charged and ready to rock for Fiesta Worlds on Thursday and another hard weekend.
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Old 04-18-17, 03:45 PM
  #8487  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
When my tsb is super negative I find that I sleep really lightly. Drinking a glass of water and eating some protein right before bed seems to help.
+1.

I'm the same way.
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Old 04-18-17, 06:01 PM
  #8488  
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Monday was a day off. Trying to get ahead on homework. Today was about 1:20 on the rollers real easy. Power meter still reading low some times.

New trainer should show up tonight. Will probably dick around on it a bit, nothing hard though.
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Old 04-18-17, 06:13 PM
  #8489  
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Originally Posted by TheKillerPenguin View Post
When my tsb is super negative I find that I sleep really lightly. Drinking a glass of water and eating some protein right before bed seems to help.
After reading a handful of people posting about infinit Nutrition, I gave it a try thanks to @topflightpro. I found that their Nocturne recovery product was the perfect solution for this. I use it during my heavy blocks and can't keep my eyes open about 45 min after I drink it and I sleep like a baby. Well worth the ducats IMO.
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Old 04-18-17, 07:13 PM
  #8490  
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OMG training crit yay bikes etc + GC hulk smashed the sprint and took 2nd or 3rd
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Old 04-18-17, 07:40 PM
  #8491  
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Originally Posted by ntnyln View Post
After reading a handful of people posting about infinit Nutrition, I gave it a try thanks to @topflightpro. I found that their Nocturne recovery product was the perfect solution for this. I use it during my heavy blocks and can't keep my eyes open about 45 min after I drink it and I sleep like a baby. Well worth the ducats IMO.
I may have to check that out.
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Old 04-19-17, 05:30 AM
  #8492  
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Good hard group ride last night. Walking up the one flight of stairs to the office this morning was interesting.


Ive been doing this ride on Tuesdays in place of structured intervals. This group of guys makes for just as hard of a workout, plus I feel like its better actual race training rather than trying to hit a certain target wattage for x number of minutes.


Tuesday night racing starts next week.
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Old 04-19-17, 11:56 AM
  #8493  
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Originally Posted by Wylde06 View Post
Good hard group ride last night. Walking up the one flight of stairs to the office this morning was interesting.


Ive been doing this ride on Tuesdays in place of structured intervals. This group of guys makes for just as hard of a workout, plus I feel like its better actual race training rather than trying to hit a certain target wattage for x number of minutes.


Tuesday night racing starts next week.
Funny, I was going to post a question about this same thing. My Tuesday Worlds is a really, really tough ride, but the standard advice (which I've always blindly followed) seems to be that you need structure. If a group ride stresses the right zones and especially since it's race specific, why is it not perfect training (as a substitute for intervals)?
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Old 04-19-17, 11:58 AM
  #8494  
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Originally Posted by Yep View Post
Funny, I was going to post a question about this same thing. My Tuesday Worlds is a really, really tough ride, but the standard advice (which I've always blindly followed) seems to be that you need structure. If a group ride stresses the right zones and especially since it's race specific, why is it not perfect training (as a substitute for intervals)?

Because it's usually too easy. Too much Vo2 max mixed with freewheeling. Your critical power doesn't improve. The kind of efforts needed to improve often involve going to the limit which would mean potentially getting dropped on a really fast group ride, or going off the front on a slower group ride.


Think about it, if you have a group ride for 30 guys, how in the world is that going to be a good training program for every person? It isn't.
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Old 04-19-17, 11:59 AM
  #8495  
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I think my take on it is that if you are looking to get stronger it's not the right course of action, but if you're looking to maintain it's great. You get practical benefits out of it as well like being used to riding around people that pay off with extra confidence on the weekend, or it feeling normal responding to other people changing the pace versus anticipating when your next interval starts.
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Old 04-19-17, 12:35 PM
  #8496  
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If you can kill yourself full out and still muster enough go on way too little recovery. Somehow find rest and claw your way back up to the group at stop signs time after time. If you can do that it was of enormous benefit.

Thank you for so fluently outlining why I could hang on fairly hard group rides reasonably easily early in the season, especially beyond length of the longest race on the calendar, yet would've gotten creamed in the first few races. My ability to train has been diminished the last few weeks so I've been giving this a lot of thought. You never know who will show up or how motivated the group will be overall.
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Old 04-19-17, 12:44 PM
  #8497  
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If time in the desired zone is the same (and I definitely have to fight at times not to be dropped) as what I might have done in an interval workout PLUS it's more specific and the efforts aren't predictable, why isn't that better?

Also, given the above, why would that not elicit improvement? I'm reading what you guys are saying, but it's not convincing.
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Old 04-19-17, 12:53 PM
  #8498  
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Originally Posted by miyata man View Post
You never know who will show up or how motivated the group will be overall.
I've done rides that were beyond my ability one week and 40 miles of rolling at a steady 10+ mph slower the next. Another was hard at set points and slow everywhere else every week with the exact same time/avg speed/chatter/people/dullness. Very rarely do you escape either complete randomness or unwavering predictability in a ride over time. Prescribed interval based training is meant to eliminate the weaker points of human nature that group rides expose.
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Old 04-19-17, 12:54 PM
  #8499  
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Well, the group rides around here are not cat 1/2 intense (this aint Cali) and I really don't hit the numbers or NP I would hit doing solo intervals. So in that sense I use them to work on soft skills, get in some leg speed, and hang out with buddies, without generating the type of training stress actual intervals would give me. It allows for more recovery between races with the soft skills bonuses I outlined before, without negatively impacting fitness. In years past the same rides would probably be a legit workout, which changes the calculus somewhat.

As far as total time in zone vs dedicated intervals, OK...lets say you're getting in 20 minutes @ 400w BUT it is in 30 second - 1 minute snips. That's a different thing than doing 4x5 @ 400w and it makes you good at responding to micro accelerations and stuff but it doesn't mean you could stomp up a few vo2 climbs in a row and still be ready to party. It's not like it doesn't benefit you at all, but it benefits you less.
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Old 04-19-17, 01:01 PM
  #8500  
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It depends. I had a coach who worked the Tuesday night ride into my program. He had me ride the route the opposite way at threshholdish and then grab the group as it was hitting the spot where it ramps up. That way I wasn't just warmed up, I was a bit fatigued. On the Saturday ride, I would be instructed to attack as much as possible, and basically try to drop myself. Then ride home at tempo.

Have a plan and make it productive rather than just ride around with a bunch of people.
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