Moisture

Lately I've been riding more leisurely because of some mild pain in my right knee from constantly hammering it and riding spirited. I have no choice but to keep pressure off my knee and ride normally if I'm interested in continuing to use my bike.

As such, my goal is to relieve as much pressure off my knee as possible.

I have my saddle almost all the was back on the rails. Right up against the max point i naturally tend to pedal somewhere in the middle of my foot, with the ball of my foot in front of the pedal spindle. Pedalling with the ball of my foot while pointing my toes outwards seems to help my knee. But I dont think my knee is aligned correctly with my heel when I do this.

Moisture

aniki what if you tend to pedal say, more toward the middle of your foot? Optimal foot placement depends on frsme geomtery and rider proportions, meaning that the balls of your feet isn't always the right foot placement?

Eric F 

My first suggestion would be to get rid of your 190mm cranks in favor of something 175mm or shorter, but I know you're absolutely convinced that long cranks are the best thing ever.

When you say "knee correctly aligned with my heel", how do you mean? What is "correct" in your mind? If your leg naturally wants to be toes-out, trying to force it to do something else can cause issues (such as knee pain). Some people prefer to have their foot clipped in and locked down to the pedal with zero (or little float). Personally, I like the free float of my old Speedplay X-series pedals, which allow my legs to find their own best/natural alignment. I have fount that my right foot likes to be pretty neutral (foot parallel with frame), but my left foot likes to be slightly toes-in. This is just how my body is put together.

I think I've recommended this before...A proper stiff-soled cycling shoe and clipless pedals might benefit you greatly.

Moisture

I read somewhere that the back of your heel should be aligned with the back of your knee as you pedal. Im not sure how helpful this would be.

i naturally tend to keep my toes pointed ever so slightly outwards. They are basically parallel with the downtube as I ride.

Sometimes I pedal with the balls of my feet, as it helps me get my toe flexors involved for a faster spin. But naturally I tend to pedal more with the middle of my foot. Does this point toward less than ideal bottom bracket positioning in accordance to my foot?

My knees absolutely dread the idea of using the 170mm crank arms on my mountain bike. I gave it a fair go today for comparison purposes. I would prefer maybe something like 185mm for a slightly smoother spin, but difference is so dramatic when grinding up a hill that I would rather walk then ride a bike with <185mm crank arms again. I guess it is due to my preference for a slow cadence.

aniki

There's nothing wrong with this at all but a couple of things to note. If you favour the midfoot position, you should lower your saddle or you will be over-reaching. Unless you have stiff soled shoes, the midfoot position should only be used for casual riding.
As I'm sure you can imagine, the midfoot position is in fact the most popular position in the world among 'casual' cyclists. Look at any cyclist riding in India or the Netherlands with very upright positions just casually scooting around.
The problems arise if you start putting too much pressure through your joints in this position.
If you are going to be riding fast, hard or for any distance, there's very good reason why cyclists adopt a more 'leaning forward' position and use hard-soled cycling shoes with cleats and clipless pedals. And it's not just about going fast!

Optimal foot placement has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with frame geometry and rider proportions.

Moisture

I see. I think I will have to look into some cycling shoes. I already have my saddle positioned shy of full leg extension even when pedalling flat footed. I don't notice any difference in performance with the seat higher.

I also find that sliding my seat aft on the rails helped me pedal naturally with the balls of my feet. But I'm reluctant to go any further back on the rails because I'm already just past the "max" point. But it looks like I've just about reached an ideal foot position on my bike.

Moisture

So, im still not exactly sure what determines ideal foot position. The only explanation left would be associated with the mechanics and proportions of the rider.

philbob57

Unless you have stiff soled shoes - even with the pinned flat pedals I use, my feet hurt within 15 miles unless I use stiff-soled shoes, no matter where I place my foot.

That seems like the proper starting point, not the end point.

aniki

Your searching for absolutes but the point is that there isn't a one 'optimum' solution for everyone; just the experience of certain things working better than others. Ultimately it's as much to do with the type of riding you do and where you are comfortable.

Not sure if I linked this page before:-

https://www.stevehoggbikefitting.com...leat-position/

This explains in vastly greater detail than I can go into here that although the idea of 'ball of foot over pedal spindle' is pretty much a time-honoured tradition, many athletes have found varying degrees of benefit from actually moving the foot forward over the pedal spindle (and then, technically it's actually the big toe joint, not the ball of foot)
But again; it's not 'absolute', but a very highly respected opinion and results that speak for themselves.
-
Just aim to get the ball of your foot over the pedal spindle and ensure your foot is landing on the pedal where it naturally wants to be, you can't go far wrong (assuming of course your saddle height is set to accommodate)

It's when you start pedalling with your heels or your toes we have a problem!

If you are cycling for longer / harder / further then yes, I would strongly recommend using a cycling shoe and fixed cleat / pedal system. Once set up correctly there will be no ambiguity about whether your foot is in the right position. Your pedal stroke will also be more efficient as your effort will be transmitted directly to the pedal axle rather than being lost through the soft conforming rubber soles of whatever you wear now.

Aussie_Cyclist

I tend to naturally pedal towards the middle of my foot. When I upgraded to the bike I now have, which is a larger frame than my previous bike, and after adjusting the saddle height I couldn't understand why I suddenly was getting pain in my quadriceps. Moving my pedalling to the ball of my feet stops that happening, but of course as I "naturally" tend to pedal towards the centre of my foot lowering my saddle made the stituation better. So for me the choice was either train myself to pedal with the ball of my foot or lower my saddle. Maybe I'm completely wrong, but it seems to work for me.

Jerry090

I'm curious about everyone's experience with this and optimizing against knee discomfort.
I've always biked with my heels or mid-foot and have noticed some tenderness in the knees these days...

Carbonfiberboy 

Exactly where is the tenderness? Both knees? If so, same place?