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Light Bicycle Wheels

Old 08-14-19, 09:25 PM
  #776  
bonsai171
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Wheels are done.

Richard @ ProWheelBuilder.com said it took him all of 15 minutes to build them up for fixed gear.

RRU35C02 rims - 25 mm wide, 35 mm deep, 3k matte with grooved graphene brake track.
Mack Superlight track hubs.
Brass nipples with CX-Ray spokes, 24-2x rear, 20-radial front.

Front is 669 grams.
Rear is 772 grams.
1441 grams for the pair which is about 6 oz lighter than the old wheels.
The bike sits right at 15 lb including cages, pedals and computer mount.

Total cost for the wheels alone including parts and labor was just over $850. Man, those Black Prince pads cost a fortune.

They are set up with tubes and I forgot about rim tape. The LBS had some Velox. I also didn't think to get tubes with longer valve stems to accommodate the deeper rims but found a few old boat anchor tubes with longer stems laying around my garage for now.

25 mm Vittoria Rubino G+ Speed go on Dura Ace C24 wheels very easily but mounting on these rims was a pita. They actually snapped into place like when mounting a tubeless tire. They are almost exactly as wide as the rim however and I can't wait to get them up to speed to see how they feel.

I'll try to get some better photos of the bike in the daylight but probably won't ride it for a while as I'm off the bike due to injury.










-Tim-
Tim,

Those are some deep section rims! Love the carbon weave.

Dave
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Old 08-15-19, 02:27 AM
  #777  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
Update for those who may have been put off by my comments about cornering on the sidewall:

I put a 26mm Specialized Turbo on my front wheel and that improved cornering a lot. It has a 31mm tread/66mm carcass. I was able to get close to the top 2% on a TOC descent (11k entries) - so definitely not slow, but not necessarily at the physical limit either. I could see myself shaving a few more seconds with this setup. And this is just with the front tire swapped to a 3 year old turbo. With front and rear Corsa Controls or similar I might be able to break 1%. In short, the wheels are not the issue. The tires are.

I suggested that tread and carcass width be measured at bicyclerollingresistance. To my surprise, Jarno obliged me and posted a ton of data for older tires as well.

As it turns out, the Pirelli P Zeros have the same tread:carcass ratio as the vittoria corsa speed tires - a TT tire that most agree has low grip. The Cinturato is closer to high grip tires like the Corsa.

The point is, you can definitely use a 25mm tire on these rims and maybe even some 23s. Just confirm that they donít have a narrow tread and youíll be good. Somewhere around 45% is probably ideal.

I know @Ericoschmitt is using 23mm Corsa Speeds up front on these wheels. To that I say: you have bigger cojones than I do
Hi smashndash,

I'm really interested in your setup, opting for pretty much the same. (I have discs though.)
Some questions:
1. Do you have the tubeless version of the 26mm Specialized Turbo?
2. How wide does it measure on the 23mm internal rim? (Maybe a closeup of the rim-tire connection?)
3. How easy was fitting?
4. A bit unrelated, but how much was it extra to get internal nipples? (Guess they can't use a machine for trueing then.) Do you think they got it right?

/JT
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Old 08-16-19, 06:39 AM
  #778  
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My impressions...

Keep in mind that I'm riding 48x16 fixed gear and speeds >25 MPH will be rare.

The build is:
  • RRU35C02 rims - 25 mm wide, 35 mm deep, 3k matte with grooved graphene brake track.
  • Mack Superlight track hubs.
  • Brass nipples with CX-Ray spokes, 24-2x rear, 20-radial front.

Rolling: They are round and true. They hold the tires on. No big surprise.

Mounting: Mounting Vittoria Rubino G+ Speed was more difficult than any other road rim I've used. These are also the widest road rim I've ever used.

Weight: I want to say "Lack of inertia" rather than weight. They are 1/3 lb lighter than the old wheels and almost all of that inertia is/was at the rim. Less inertia to overcome can be felt when rapidly changing speeds such as jumping out of the saddle to speed up. Accelerating from a red light is exactly the same from stopped through about 12 MPH but once the pedals and wheels get spun up a little I can accelerate through 18 or 20 MPH or so much easier.

Ride Quality: The radial stiffness of the deeper rim can be felt. They feel harsher than the old wheels when crossing expansion joints and road cracks. Tires and pressure are the same as the old wheels. I'm running cruddy tubes. I will be experimenting with pressure a bit.

Aero: Yes. The tire and rim width are within 1 mm of each other whereas the old rims were a little narrower. The extra depth, true aero profile vs deep V on the old rims and CX-Ray spokes could be felt as slightly less effort when going fast, <20 MPH. It is subtle but I believe it can be felt. Keep in mind that I'm the guy who claims to be able to feel extra drag when my hands are on the tops of a flat aero handlebar vs the hoods.

Braking: This is my biggest concern. Black Prince pads have a bedding in process which I did. Panic stops seem OK. Modulation doesn't seem as good as the alloy rims - they seem to lack a little lever feel. Maybe I just need to get used to them over time and part of it is probably the difference between Koolstop salmon pads on the old rims and Black Prince on the new. Toe-in on the pads needs to be adjusted better as well. The sound isn't as obnoxious as some carbon rims I've heard - I was expecting worse.

I'm happy with them and they changed the look of the bike completely.


-Tim-

Last edited by TimothyH; 08-16-19 at 06:46 AM.
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Old 08-16-19, 09:07 AM
  #779  
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2 things:

1) it's a beautiful build. Nicely done

2) We had that paint color (Latte, I presume?). We just redid the whole house to Accessible Beige. Big difference (the house just felt closed in and dark before. It's much lighter now)
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Old 08-16-19, 09:22 AM
  #780  
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Color doesn't show well in that photo taken at night.

It is PPG 15008 "Dark Blue Solid."

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Old 08-16-19, 09:37 AM
  #781  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
My impressions...

Keep in mind that I'm riding 48x16 fixed gear and speeds >25 MPH will be rare.


I'm happy with them and they changed the look of the bike completely.


-Tim-
Good to see you are out riding again.

How do you feel?
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Old 08-16-19, 10:42 AM
  #782  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Good to see you are out riding again.

How do you feel?
Thanks for asking.

A few days ago I woke up without leg pain. Gone as quickly as it came. Not complaining but

So I took the fixed gear out for the first ride rather than a freewheel bike because why not test your leg with a large hammer? No soft pedaling.

It felt really good so yeah, looking forward to some rides this weekend.


-Tim-
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Old 08-17-19, 08:31 AM
  #783  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
Color doesn't show well in that photo taken at night.
I was talking about the wall color
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Old 08-17-19, 05:54 PM
  #784  
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Originally Posted by JonathanTeatime View Post
Hi smashndash,

I'm really interested in your setup, opting for pretty much the same. (I have discs though.)
Some questions:
1. Do you have the tubeless version of the 26mm Specialized Turbo?
2. How wide does it measure on the 23mm internal rim? (Maybe a closeup of the rim-tire connection?)
3. How easy was fitting?
4. A bit unrelated, but how much was it extra to get internal nipples? (Guess they can't use a machine for trueing then.) Do you think they got it right?

/JT
1. Using the tubed clincher turbo pro, not S-Works.
2. I would say the tire sits very wide and squat. Not super tall. Tire width is around 29+mm, measured with a ruler at 60 psi. Higher than I would ever run probably but more in-line with what normal people run.


Top view, rim is obscured so maybe closer to 30mm?



3. Fitting was very easy with plastic levers. Probably doable with bare hands but Iíve been swapping tires too much to deal with that lol. but itís a clincher so I canít say anything about TL.
4. No upcharge for internal nipples but I made sure to ask for Sapim upside down nipples rather than the standard external nipples. Not sure what LB does if you say internal and donít mention the upside down. Grooved graphene track has a $60, $30 per rim upcharge though. Iíd say they got it right. I havenít had any truing issues and Iíve jumped the bike a few times and slammed plenty of potholes. Iíll probably crack the rim before this thing goes out of true lol. I read somewhere they no longer use a machine for building any of their wheels because of the vast variety of wheels they build. So I wouldnít worry too much about trueness. I was sure to get bladed spokes though because Iíve heard straight pull + round spokes = PITA

Last edited by smashndash; 08-18-19 at 11:54 AM.
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Old 08-17-19, 06:01 PM
  #785  
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Originally Posted by superdex View Post
I was talking about the wall color
Oh. .

Bikes on the brain 24x7.
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Old 08-19-19, 11:08 PM
  #786  
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Advice needed. Those of you who fitted GP5000 TL on a set of WR56C02, how did you get on?

Getting close to getting the front tyre on, but on the rear I canít even manage to fit the first side of the tyre.

Where am I going wrong? Also tried some clinchers on the rear, Bontrager R1 & Ultremo ZX fitted easily by hand.
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Old 08-20-19, 07:56 PM
  #787  
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Originally Posted by Max_Jones View Post
Advice needed. Those of you who fitted GP5000 TL on a set of WR56C02, how did you get on?

Getting close to getting the front tyre on, but on the rear I canít even manage to fit the first side of the tyre.

Where am I going wrong? Also tried some clinchers on the rear, Bontrager R1 & Ultremo ZX fitted easily by hand.
I don't have much useful advice, but here's a checklist:
1) are both sides of the tire in the center of the deep channel? The second bead might be stuck on the outside of the bead ridge.
2) is the "finishing edge" away from the valve?
3) did you pull the slack out of the tire? Try "stretching" the tire in the direction of the finishing edge with your entire body weight.
4) Try loosening the TL valve so that the bung isn't blocking the channel. I don't have any experience with this, but I imagine it should help...

Hopefully someone can give you some more pointers.
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Old 08-21-19, 07:39 PM
  #788  
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So these wheels...

This is my first set of remotely aero wheels.

The old wheels were 23 mm wide x 25 mm deep and V shaped. These are 25 mm wide x 35 mm deep U shaped with bladed spokes and the width of the tire and rim match almost exactly

That much change is huge, easily enough for a 1 MPH gain in average speed over 30 miles on a flat course.

It's a little mind blowing actually. I was all weight weenie all the time but now its clear that aero is really a thing.


-Tim-
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Old 08-21-19, 09:29 PM
  #789  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
So these wheels...

This is my first set of remotely aero wheels.

The old wheels were 23 mm wide x 25 mm deep and V shaped. These are 25 mm wide x 35 mm deep U shaped with bladed spokes and the width of the tire and rim match almost exactly

That much change is huge, easily enough for a 1 MPH gain in average speed over 30 miles on a flat course.

It's a little mind blowing actually. I was all weight weenie all the time but now its clear that aero is really a thing.


-Tim-
So *now* what can your single speed beat up?


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Old 08-21-19, 10:30 PM
  #790  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
So these wheels...

This is my first set of remotely aero wheels.

The old wheels were 23 mm wide x 25 mm deep and V shaped. These are 25 mm wide x 35 mm deep U shaped with bladed spokes and the width of the tire and rim match almost exactly

That much change is huge, easily enough for a 1 MPH gain in average speed over 30 miles on a flat course.

It's a little mind blowing actually. I was all weight weenie all the time but now its clear that aero is really a thing.


-Tim-
(first post here after lurking and learning forever) -- Lol, I had same experience today. Went from 22.5 wide/ 24.5 deep Rol alloy wheels to non-disc DT Swiss PRC 1400 spline 35s (25 wide/ 35 deep, with GP 5000 tl tires) and was just completely blown away. I think there were a bunch of factors at play -- aero, stiffer rims, better hubs. Goddang, it was magic. Or witchcraft. Didn't love the braking, but I'll adjust.
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Old 08-21-19, 10:59 PM
  #791  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I don't have much useful advice, but here's a checklist:
1) are both sides of the tire in the center of the deep channel? The second bead might be stuck on the outside of the bead ridge.
2) is the "finishing edge" away from the valve?
3) did you pull the slack out of the tire? Try "stretching" the tire in the direction of the finishing edge with your entire body weight.
4) Try loosening the TL valve so that the bung isn't blocking the channel. I don't have any experience with this, but I imagine it should help...

Hopefully someone can give you some more pointers.
Cheers for the advice. Purchased a decent set of levers and left the tyres in the sun for an hour, managed to get them on relatively easy. Probably wasnít helping itís nearly freezing in the garage here in NZ...
Canít post a photo yet as I have less than ten posts 😢
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Old 08-22-19, 12:54 AM
  #792  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I don't have much useful advice
I agree

Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
2) is the "finishing edge" away from the valve?
I would do the opposite


Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
3) did you pull the slack out of the tire? Try "stretching" the tire in the direction of the finishing edge with your entire body weight.
Wut?

Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
4) Try loosening the TL valve so that the bung isn't blocking the channel. I don't have any experience with this, but I imagine it should help...
I've never needed to do this, but it might actually help.
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Old 08-22-19, 01:00 AM
  #793  
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Originally Posted by TimothyH View Post
So these wheels...

This is my first set of remotely aero wheels.

The old wheels were 23 mm wide x 25 mm deep and V shaped. These are 25 mm wide x 35 mm deep U shaped with bladed spokes and the width of the tire and rim match almost exactly

That much change is huge, easily enough for a 1 MPH gain in average speed over 30 miles on a flat course.

It's a little mind blowing actually. I was all weight weenie all the time but now its clear that aero is really a thing.


-Tim-
These wheels are also lighter than your old wheels.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:16 AM
  #794  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
I agree


I would do the opposite


Wut?

I've never needed to do this, but it might actually help.
Yeah Iíve always been confused about whether youíre supposed to finish at the valve or 90 degrees from the valve or opposite the valve. :shrug: I finish away from the valve but I also donít use TL.

The ďslackĒ thing is something a guy from Mavic showed me when I was demoing UST at Sea Otter. It definitely helps a LOT. Maybe Iíll make a video if this doesnít make sense. But here I go:

Get the tire to the point where thereís only that one finishing edge left. Turn the wheel so that that edge is towards the ground. Put the wheel on the ground (ideally a soft surface). The goal now is to stretch the tire along the circumference of the wheel towards the finishing edge. So if the finishing edge is at 6 o clock, start pulling the slack out from the 12 o clock position with both hands in opposite directions. Eventually your hands will be at 3 and 9. At this point, you can use your entire body weight to pull (push?) the tire towards the finishing edge. Continue to slide your hands towards the finishing edge while maintaining tension. Without releasing tension, try to get the finishing edge over.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:26 AM
  #795  
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I'll need the video, thanks.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:26 AM
  #796  
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You want to finish at the valve. You want the tire beads in the center well, the smallest circumference of the rim, so that you have as much slack as possible when you pop the last bit on; the valve stem takes up space in that center well, taking away a precious bit of slack.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:42 AM
  #797  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
You want to finish at the valve. You want the tire beads in the center well, the smallest circumference of the rim, so that you have as much slack as possible when you pop the last bit on; the valve stem takes up space in that center well, taking away a precious bit of slack.
Bdop would argue with you about this, but he would be wrong.
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Old 08-22-19, 09:44 AM
  #798  
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Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
You want to finish at the valve. You want the tire beads in the center well, the smallest circumference of the rim, so that you have as much slack as possible when you pop the last bit on; the valve stem takes up space in that center well, taking away a precious bit of slack.
Yeah that makes sense. But for some reason park tool and Jan Heine recommend starting at the valve? They donít explain why though. Fit Werx says ďNext, mount the other side of the tire onto the rim, starting at the spoke hole. While this may sound backwards to what you learned on a tubed tire, doing this can be quite important as it allows the bead to settle into the center groove of the rim better and thus effectively loosens the bead on the rim.Ē

:shrug: Also yes, they did say ďspoke holeĒ. Sigh
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Old 08-22-19, 09:46 AM
  #799  
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Originally Posted by bobones View Post
I'll need the video, thanks.
OK Iíll try to film something if I have some time.
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Old 08-22-19, 11:12 AM
  #800  
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Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
Yeah that makes sense. But for some reason park tool and Jan Heine recommend starting at the valve? They donít explain why though. Fit Werx says ďNext, mount the other side of the tire onto the rim, starting at the spoke hole. While this may sound backwards to what you learned on a tubed tire, doing this can be quite important as it allows the bead to settle into the center groove of the rim better and thus effectively loosens the bead on the rim.Ē

:shrug: Also yes, they did say ďspoke holeĒ. Sigh
Maybe the also accidently omitted the word "opposite." The rest would make sense in that context.
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