GTryder

Wonder pros and cons of mounting in "standard" or "inverted" position. Trying both ways: standard feels like flat bars with bar ends, inverted (with stem riser) feels like mustache or path racer with additional flat hand position- also curves/angles feel more natural, but a bit twitchy handling (maybe due to stem riser). Flat area and levers are at the same height and the bars are tilted at a similar angle on both set-ups. The bike is used for commuting, light shopping and day trips of about 50 Km. into the local agricultural and forest recreational areas...pavement, broken pavement, some gravel.




Standard Position




Inverted Position

Caretaker

Standard without the mirror.

dabac

Inverted, the front grip area gets a little easier on the wrists as it makes them rotate a little outwards.
At least I am very sensitive to this and very quickly get achy if my hands are rolled inwards.

djb

interesting take on this. I ride them standard, but perhaps should try them the other way for a while just to see.
The only issue is that its on an old bike with a quill stem, so its a royal pain in the keester to remove all the bar tape on one side to take the bars out.
I still may do this sometime, as I have been thinking of changing the bar tape to very simple double wrapped cork type stuff that I put on my wifes trekking bars. The more textured stuff I put on mine is not as comfy as the regular stuff on the other bike.

I also put ergo grips on my bike, and am ready to remove them to see how it is.
I have found that I dont like the narrow, inward position of the grips, this is due to the grips not being able physically to get all the way to the edge of the bars due to the curve.
Because of this, even with trimming my grips down, the grip hand position is still too narrow for my liking, so without grips, you can position your brake and shifter levers probably a couple of inches further out than in your photo, which gives you already a wider stance when with fingers on brake levers.

in the end, like me, you'll have to try out diff variations. The big plus is that you have front bolt stems, so its much easier to muck around and try stuff.

I do think its worth playing with diff versions, and commuting with one regularly for a while, then switching.

I ride dropbar bikes, mtb risers with ergo grips and this trekking bar bike, and I do have to say that so far the trekking bars are the least comfortable, and most likely its simply a question of some fine tuning with either the bar tape, removing the grips and having a smoother, softer bar tape surface, and or trying the flip and seeing how it is.

I really have noticed being uncomfortable with the very slight angle outwards of my grips position, so if I can get that area of the bars to angle inwards a bit, like my mtb risers, I think it would help (along with the bar tape and wider hand stance also)

have fun trying slight or not so slight variations.

also---you'll see that the angle of the bars is personal as well, as the pressure put on your hands when on the sides is diff depending on the angle.
I personally find only a slight upwards angle to work best, to get even pressure on my palms, but again, personal and small differences make all the difference with comfort, like with most bike stuff, but especially with bars, no matter the type.

djb

and Mr Prince Albert, ironically, my trekking bar bike is a GT also, but a very old one, probably a 90s , a hybrid that was a donor bike that I made into a commuter.

Trekking bars are kinda neat. I really do prefer dropbars for touring and lots of riding time, as a good dropbar setup works the best for me, even for very long trips, but I have to say, trekking bars could be a good option if riding a lot more on loose surfaces, as the wider stance would be nice with a loaded touring bike.

in any case, I do think its worth taking the time and riding with diff variations and being attentive to how diff changes work.
Also, longer rides of an hour or more will also show up slight things that are uncomfortable, so always good to carry tools with you so you can make small small changes and immediately feel if it helps.

Happy Feet

I have always marveled at the way people orient their trekking bars along a more vertical axis as illustrated in the picture "standard". This reduces the design usefullness of the bars quite a bit. If you orient them along a more horizontal axis, as illustrated in the picture "inverted" (whether they are inverted or not), you utilize those intended features.

Horizontally, you have close flats - this should be your main upright(ish) riding posture where your brake levers and shifters usually are. Then you have barends - like those add on's on mtb's or riding the hoods of drop bars. Then you have a second flats position that gets you a bit more aero. Plus some other various minor positions.

Vertically you have close flats for your upright posture. The barends are angled up at an awkward angle for your wrists so they become useless. And the second further away flats position extends your torso to reach but doesn't get you any more aero.

You can see in the two photo's that the user doesn't even consider the barend position as they have mounted a mirror there on the left where the hand goes. That's a major hand position wasted that allows one to rotate the shoulders/elbows inward to relieve stress. You are then left with only two duplicate flats positions.

So, in regards to the OP's question; the real issue is alignment along vertical axis vs horizontal axis. If your are horizontal, inverting just lowers the bars by a couple of inches.

djb

first of all, thanks happy for clarifying the important issues here for this person, new to these bars.

Happy describes the position or hand area where your mirror is as "barends" , like what we put on mtb bars and which I ride with and find essential.
As he notes, this position puts our hands and wrists in a very similar position as using the hoods on dropbars--this is my predominant position and the most natural.
On trekking bars, this is where I prefer to have my hands.
That said, I however switch up my hand position all the time--on dropbars I go from hoods to the tops regularly, just to change up hand pressure and slight neck angle etc.
On trekking bars its the same, I go from the area you have your mirror to the area where the levers are very regularly, but the "barends" position is my most natural position, so if you have your trekking bars more vertical, as happy states clearly, you lose that position efffectively as the side area is angled too high.

Again, take the time over weeks to ride with diff positions, and change things mid ride because that way you will notice right away an increase or decrease in comfort.

move your mirror up a bunch so you can use that corner and just past corner area, its crucial.

to help during the test period, you can always wrap the bars with some old bar tape if you can get some, something anyway, so at least you can try diff positions of the levers, ie more outwards, to see how wider stance of hands generally is more comfortable than inwards.

bike gloves with padding will help also for hand comfort, but concentrate more on the changes you feel, just be open to what feels more natural for your hands and wrists, and keep in mind the points that Happy has brought up and described well.

perhaps we can put up some photos of our bikes to give you some visual direction/hints.

Happy Feet

Yes, I hope I did not sound too snarky with my comments, it was not my intention. I really do wonder at the vertical axis imagery that is prevalent on the web as reference.
Here's a good reference for hand positions on the bars: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/deakins/handlebars.html

fietsbob

I'm using these wrist rotation better when inverted , gripping the front curves ..

Ala Mustache bars.





..

seeker333

Standard orientation yields more bar height, useful for heads-up posture/safety in urban areas. Look into helmet mirrors, they don't interfere with your hand/controls placement.

fietsbob

2nd image, shows stem raiser , so bar height equalization , is apparently compensated for , in that manner ..

I double wrap my trekking bars twice with padded tape..

Arvadaman

I set mine up in the “normal” position that you had in the first picture. I tip mine up 10 - 15 degrees from horizontal in the front. Similar to slope I like my bar ends as mentioned earlier.

I do not invert my butterfly bars because I am always looking to bring my grip area on the handlebars up and in toward me.

I never seem to have too short of a reach.

GTryder

Some interesting observations and viewpoints. I'm accustomed to narrower bars (trimmed to 46 - 50 cm / 18 - 20") so find the lower flat very comfortable as my basic more upright position with both setups (and the same reach distance and height in relation to saddle, via the stem riser in the inverted position). Can't use a helmet mirror, my eyes don't focus well with one and find it distracting. I don't mind the mirror where it is but will try the suggested lower curve position as outlined in the 3rd picture from Sheldon Brown.

My flat bar road bike, showing the 3 positions I've been using with bar ends.

WarrenR

I'm on the inverted position side. I use all the hand positions mentioned but the one that I find most advantageous is around the front of the bars. Here on the east coast it seems the wind is always blowing a gale so I spend a lot of riding time in an aero tuck, elbows in, holding as far forward and close together as possible.
I've had the trekking bars on my hybrid road bike for more than three years and just bought a new Trek Verve, (hybrid trail bike?) and the first mods were a new seat and Trekking bars.
Just in time cause the wind "she's still a blowin'!".

I have my mirror on the forward curve as for some reason I never put my hands there but on very long rides I do occasionally use the rear curve, as a last resort.

djb

found this photo to show how they are with grips on. As I mentioned, I cut the grips down a bit, to be able to bring the shifter brake levers as far as I could away from the inner part of the front bar.
and yes, image 3 above is where I tend to be the most, but am of course on the grips a alot also.

my tape job is kind of lumpy, but you can see that if you do not have grips, it gives you more area and small positional changes for your hands in the closest position (photo 4)

I chose this type of bar tape exactly because it is more tough than regular foamy corky bar tape, because a trekking bar will tend to get rubbed up against abrasive walls etc when leaning the bike against stuff, but in the end, I'd like to go the simple "cushy" bar tape route, doubled, and then not have any specific higher up areas as with grips etc, but one smooth, cushy area to move my hands around.

hope that helps visually to see how they are with grips on them.

but hey, maybe you would prefer grips, but worth trying diff setups anyway.

GTryder

So it's been 3 weeks and a few hundred kilometers, along with changing from inverted to upright and back. Also, rode my flat bar road bike (with bar ends) and touring bike with Northroads (Wald 8095's) a few times for variety and comparison. Best fit for me and the best usage of the "butterfly" design is the inverted position with the mirror mounted below the bars. Found the upright position very similar to bar ends, with no real advantages. Content with 3 distinct hand/riding positions - first photo. Will be putting grips on the flats and wrapping the rest of the bars. The second photo shows the bar height in relation to the saddle.

djb

Well, you certainly did it the right way with back to back to back comparisons over some weeks. Glad you found what worked best for you.
You've convinced me to try inverted someone, just have to take the time to unwrap one side to be able to do it.
I figure I'll try the no grip route also and see how that compares too.

Very interesting to see a modern GT in that they kept that GT frame tradition thatg under the seat and connects to the top tube.

GTryder

GT has kept the "Triple Triangle" design on many of their hybrids and hardtail MTBs.

When you flip your bars over, you will likely have to raise your stem a bit - hope it works out for you. I almost ditched them and was set to go back to bar ends, but tried them inverted again, played with the angle and spacers on the stem; slightly more level than the first try - also moved levers outward and trimmed off excess inner flat area to decrease flexing (although a little flex seems to absorb bumps/vibrations).

djb

Thanks for tips, although I may end up running into trouble because of the quill stem. It's already rather long (120mm I think) and angled up, so if I find I really need to bring the bars up after flipping them, it may be tricky and if I really want it to work, I may have to go the route of an adapter, those "quill to threadless stem" things. They are a straight tube that goes into the threaded stem, then you add open face stems onto them, and these bars are non oversized diameter.

We'll see.

Oh, speaking of flex and cutting the bars a bit, I know you did it, but be careful because grips are limited remember to how far out they can be placed, like I said before, the curve stops them at a certain point, and you can trim the grips shorter a bit.
I actually like the flex on my grip position, and I always go to the grips over rough stuff because it's easier on my hands, and I hadn't thought of it really before you said, but clearly the flex is what's doing it, and it's a good thing.
Cheers

fietsbob

My Other trekking bar equipped bike .. the bars have little drop or rise on either side,
coming out of the center stem clamp , As you may See.. below ..