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Is Kinetic Road Machine the best fluid trainer?

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Is Kinetic Road Machine the best fluid trainer?

Old 12-03-12, 04:23 PM
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Campag4life
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Is Kinetic Road Machine the best fluid trainer?

For those that know their fluid trainers....nosing around the web, the Kinetic Road Machine gets major props for being solid and quiet.
Seems to be the most revered trainer...not sure the best value but worth the price?
Thanks

Review:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvSOZXmT3n8
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Old 12-03-12, 04:35 PM
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maidenfan
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I asked the same question when I was trainer shopping and ended up with the Kinetic. It's been a good trainer for me and you can usually find them for a good price.
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Old 12-03-12, 05:05 PM
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Ya, but I bought it in the summer for $220. Now it's 80 degrees in December.

Oh well. Maybe it'll rain one day.
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Old 12-03-12, 05:29 PM
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I bought mine used and want for nothing. One big thing for me is the sealed chamber with the magnetic impeller. The fact that the fluid inside can never get out is the only reason I can use it in the house with our new carpeting. I'd never bring it in there if there was a chance of a bad seal like I've read about with the CyclOps.

The trainer is great though. I use it as a bike rack for my at-home bike (have two race bikes). Easy-in, easy-out. I had to replace the tension knob when I got it, but service was speedy, and I was still able to use the old one with a wrench (previous owner fubared it somehow?).

If it vanished today, I'd buy another used Kurt.
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Old 12-03-12, 05:41 PM
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I have a Kurt Road Machine and it has been great. The only other machine that I considered is the 1UP. I like that it can fold down flat and slide under a bed or fit in a closet. The 1UP is quiet and has similar performance and road feel, I am told, but Kurt's sealed chamber and leak proof design is what sold me. A road machine will probably last you the rest of your cycling life.
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Old 12-03-12, 06:02 PM
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yes. it is the best.











you're welcome.
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Old 12-03-12, 06:04 PM
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I've had mine since winter 2006. It's awesome. Never an issue. You won't be displeased!
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Old 12-03-12, 07:52 PM
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Yup...
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Old 12-03-12, 08:00 PM
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I bought mine last month and I'm pleased with it. Never owned a trainer before, and I bought it because of it's high reviews. I know it'll last a long time.
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Old 12-03-12, 08:32 PM
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I have a Rock n Roll--same innards as the RM. First trainer. Love it.
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Old 12-03-12, 08:49 PM
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I would personally prefer:
https://www.cycleops.com/en/products/...&category_id=3

because it will 'drive' you at certain wattage, but the price tag is the same as a Computrainer, which does the same thing.
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Old 12-03-12, 08:53 PM
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don't think that cycleops is worth 3 times a kurt kinetic.

for the price, a kk is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else
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Old 12-03-12, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Breitling
don't think that cycleops is worth 3 times a kurt kinetic.

for the price, a kk is leaps and bounds ahead of anything else
You might have missed that the cycleops I listed DRIVES your power like a treadmill (you have to plug it in.) So you can program it to go '250 watts' and it'll force you to put up 250 watts to turn the pedals regardless of cadence. It's called 'erg mode' in a Computrainer, and is the single most desired features of that Computrainer (retails for $1000 new as well.) KK doesn't do that - it's a huge difference.

I'm waiting for the Wahoo Kickr but we'll see if it ends up being vaporware (another 'erg'mode trainer priced at $1000 for 2013.)
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Old 12-03-12, 09:21 PM
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1
You might have missed that the cycleops I listed DRIVES your power like a treadmill (you have to plug it in.) So you can program it to go '250 watts' and it'll force you to put up 250 watts to turn the pedals regardless of cadence. It's called 'erg mode' in a Computrainer, and is the single most desired features of that Computrainer (retails for $1000 new as well.) KK doesn't do that - it's a huge difference.

I'm waiting for the Wahoo Kickr but we'll see if it ends up being vaporware (another 'erg'mode trainer priced at $1000 for 2013.)
I know the cycleops drives your power, I'

just saying that a $1000 trainer isn't really comparable to a $380 one -- kind of like comparing dura ace to tiagra

you might have missed that i said FOR THE PRICE, kk is the best
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Old 12-03-12, 09:24 PM
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Yes, sort of like apples vs oranges true. However, they're still both trainers, and since OP was asking about the "best fluid trainer', that's probably the one I'd list as the best, mainly because of the power and erg abilities.

However, I'd agree that at its price point, KK has the best reputation, slightly edging out the Cycleops Fluid trainers which have a similar pricepoint.
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Old 12-03-12, 09:43 PM
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Does anyone know anything about Tacx trainers? Those are the only ones my LBS carries. I was looking at the Blue Matic for $250 but the Kinetic Road Machine sounds really nice. I'll see if I can find it around here.
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Old 12-03-12, 10:04 PM
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I have two CycleOps fluid trainers. One is "low resistance" now because most of the fluid leaked out. I thought I was getting stronger

The Fluid trainers are the quietest (I've owned mag, wind, and fluid trainers). However I'm thinking of getting a mag resistance head for the CycleOps simply because I can get the inertia levels up higher with a low resistance (i.e. go "fast" so that the wheel and flywheel are spinning fast). I rarely go over 15 mph average on the (fluid) trainer and often I'm in my 39x23 doing about 100-105 rpm. The faster speeds of the leaked-out trainer or a lower resistance trainer would replicate road riding better where the bike's inertia pulls you through the pedal circle's dead spots. High inertia also replicates the acceleration effort better. I could also super-weight a rear wheel (I'm considering putting substantial fishing weights on every spoke of an older back wheel).

Noise is less an issue for me now, hence my thoughts in this direction.
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Old 12-03-12, 10:19 PM
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Originally Posted by carpediemracing
I have two CycleOps fluid trainers. One is "low resistance" now because most of the fluid leaked out. I thought I was getting stronger

The Fluid trainers are the quietest (I've owned mag, wind, and fluid trainers). However I'm thinking of getting a mag resistance head for the CycleOps simply because I can get the inertia levels up higher with a low resistance (i.e. go "fast" so that the wheel and flywheel are spinning fast). I rarely go over 15 mph average on the (fluid) trainer and often I'm in my 39x23 doing about 100-105 rpm. The faster speeds of the leaked-out trainer or a lower resistance trainer would replicate road riding better where the bike's inertia pulls you through the pedal circle's dead spots. High inertia also replicates the acceleration effort better. I could also super-weight a rear wheel (I'm considering putting substantial fishing weights on every spoke of an older back wheel).

Noise is less an issue for me now, hence my thoughts in this direction.
I'm actually kind of shocked that you'd even consider a mag trainer at your level of racing.

I suspect you had an older Cycleops fluid trainer - the ones after 2009 are pretty much leak-proof (haven't heard of one yet) despite reported leaks before that. They also are supposed to mimic road acceleration pretty well - I have a hard time believing that you, as a racer, rarely go over 15mph on a fluid trainer that's set up correctly with the correct wheel size selected. (I had an incorrect wheel size default for awhile that made me wonder why I was barely holding on at 17mph.)

The mag trainers are also notably louder than the fluid trainers.

I think you can get a heavy flywheel KK trainer, but I've honestly never felt the need for extra flywheels on my Cycleops Fluid2, and thanks to trainerroad, I do some pretty tough workouts on it.
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Old 12-03-12, 11:15 PM
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I am not surprised that Kurt has a bullet proof trainer. I have two of their milling vises on my milling machines and they are also the best on the market.
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Old 12-03-12, 11:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jerhalco
I am not surprised that Kurt has a bullet proof trainer. I have two of their milling vises on my milling machines and they are also the best on the market.
Yup. Kurt is first and foremost a precision engineering/manufacturing company that just happens to also make a bicycle trainer. I bet one of the engineers on staff was a cyclist and had this crazy notion...

Www.Kurt.com
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Old 12-04-12, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1
I'm actually kind of shocked that you'd even consider a mag trainer at your level of racing.

I suspect you had an older Cycleops fluid trainer - the ones after 2009 are pretty much leak-proof (haven't heard of one yet) despite reported leaks before that. They also are supposed to mimic road acceleration pretty well - I have a hard time believing that you, as a racer, rarely go over 15mph on a fluid trainer that's set up correctly with the correct wheel size selected. (I had an incorrect wheel size default for awhile that made me wonder why I was barely holding on at 17mph.)

The mag trainers are also notably louder than the fluid trainers.

I think you can get a heavy flywheel KK trainer, but I've honestly never felt the need for extra flywheels on my Cycleops Fluid2, and thanks to trainerroad, I do some pretty tough workouts on it.
When I train I train. When I race I race. I rarely train very hard, especially since I'm so limited power- and technique-wise on the trainer - no proper standing at all since I end up rocking the bike in reverse when standing on a trainer, limited tire-roller traction, low levels of inertia (making very hard efforts much too peaky). Having said that I did have a friend "mod" a spare CycleOps frame to make it into a rocking type trainer so I can stand, and if I can cobble together a heavy wheel (I think I can get 8 lbs of weights on a 32 spoke wheel) then I'll have inertia and proper technique. At that point I will probably give in and do some efforts.

My speeds are right - I work off of my SRM numbers. This year hasn't been a good training year but if you look at my Strava profile I've fastidiously logged every ride (and a few runs) since May some time. I note the actual avg power, avg HR, and avg cadence for the rides. You'll see that I generally raced 2x a week during the summer and rode 2-3x a week (so on some weeks I only raced). You'll also see that I don't ride very fast except when I race.

Fitness, for racing, is really overrated, at least for flatter crits. It's 98% tactics. I mean, okay, yes, you need some level of fitness, but I'm aerobically challenged yet I do okay in races. If I extend myself, i.e. race like more fit racers, I usually fail to finish.

You're right, the first Fluid was an older one. The second Fluid is a Fluid2. There are some leak marks but not the large stain the first one left.

A mag trainer is nice because it allows higher wheel speeds at lower efforts. There are some older mag trainers that I'd just leave on "high" (like 7 out of 1 through 7). Wind units have exponential resistance, like Fluid, so that doesn't help me. I want a linear increase in resistance, but higher than just (my) rollers.
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Old 12-04-12, 05:59 AM
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Thanks a lot everybody...appreciate all the great advice...especially from the racers that responded as generally you guys are the most discriminating.

For those that use the Kinetic Road Machine, do you use it with the scalloped cup that cradles the front wheel and levels the bike's wheels to the ground? or...do you use the trainer without a front wheel block...or perhaps with another wheel block type?
Thanks again.
PS: any way to set up the KRM to a known resistance?...e.g. say 200 watts?...or this beyond the scope of the trainer? Any advice for resistance adjustment and/or riding a particular gear while training?

Last edited by Campag4life; 12-04-12 at 06:04 AM.
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Old 12-04-12, 06:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Campag4life
Thanks a lot everybody...appreciate all the great advice...especially from the racers that responded as generally you guys are the most discriminating.

For those that use the Kinetic Road Machine, do you use it with the scalloped cup that cradles the front wheel and levels the bike's wheels to the ground? or...do you use the trainer without a front wheel block...or perhaps with another wheel block type?
Thanks again.
I use the Kurt Kinetic cup. I have never tried riding the trainer without it. I think the handlerbars would move around a lot with the cup.
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Old 12-04-12, 06:05 AM
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I use the KK circle thingy under the front wheel. you do need something under there or you'll be riding with too much weight on your hands all the time.
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Old 12-04-12, 06:10 AM
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Good info. I'm still surprised at what you describe though - most dedicated racers like yourself swear by the technique and smoothness of rollers (not trainers), and what you're describing about the inability to ride a trainer since it doesn't 'rock' and the fact that you don't like the inertia is really suggesting that you can't ride rollers at all, since rollers FORCE you to have a smooth pedal stroke and pretty much eliminate rocking from your pedalstroke. Both of these roller-type skills are particularly useful for racing in tight packs where holding a line even at sprint intensity is crucial.

How do you do on rollers? (Given that you describe trainers as being so hard for you techniquewise.) Curious, as I have none of the problems you describe on the trainer, and I actually like that the trainer holds me in one position so I can maximize power in that preferred aerodynamic position without cheating.
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