Saving Hawaii

Bill Text -

This one's a little problematic. The author proposes eliminating the existing requirement for a rear red reflector and replacing it with a requirement for a white flashing light. That or "reflective gear worn by the bicyclist". I imagine this goes nowhere or gets fixed if it somehow does.

The positive is that nobody will want to do anything that doesn't involve pulling at group rides, lest they be staring into 20 strobing magicshines...

SalsaShark

White lights are meant to universally portray the oncoming side of a vehicle (be it white headlights, or white reverse lights). This seems to add unwarranted confusion to the roadway. What is the problem with red lights in the rear? We are not trying to light up the roadway behind us, are we? I understand the benefits of staying visible on the road at night (and use many lights both red and white myself) but would hesitate going against traditional lighting techniques that are already seared into the brains if the collective motorists.

prathmann

I wouldn't worry too much about this ever becoming a law. It was introduced in the California state assembly by a newly elected member and hasn't even had any committee hearings yet. As mentioned above there are lots of issues with white lights facing forward and this proposal doesn't seem to have had much thought or discussion behind it.

However, if there is a more concerted push for more required lighting on cyclists I could see this being amended to instead specify that a red rear light be required for night time operation rather than the current requirement for only a red reflector. That's already required in some other states but in California the use of a red rear-facing light is optional.

Saving Hawaii

I wouldn't have any problem with a rear red light law here.

Just thought the proposal was pretty silly.

BobbyG

Next he'll suggest watering the crops with a sports drink...sheer "Idiocracy". I smell some one legislating a market into being so that insiders and cronies can make money meeting the regulation while obsoleting existing equipment and infrastructure requiring every body to buy new equipment. This, I believe is California's number one industry.

BobbyG

BTW, Here's the proposal and some of the CA bike code.:
Bill Text - AB-28 Bicycle safety: rear lights.

Shimagnolo

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Vw2CrY9Igs

unterhausen

school buses have white flashing lights on the rear when they are being driven at night

spare_wheel

I like the idea of cyclists using white lights front and back. The visual jolt of not seeing another red tail light should improve recognition of cyclists by oncoming or overtaking motorists. We are more vulnerable than other road users so it absolutely makes sense that we be differentiated from motor vehicles.

CliffordK

White or red probably doesn't make a big difference. It would be nice to have all the lights the same, so a spare could work in the front or back.

However, I don't see any reason to change red from the "standard". And flashing red seems distinctive enough. Certainly one doesn't want to annoy drivers, or blind drivers (no using my headlight in flash mode on the rear).

I think I saw elsewhere where it was suggested to use a completely different color such as flashing blue or green. But, of course, the police already use blue.

joeyduck

I followed a guy with w bright white light on the back of his helmet the other week. It was awful. Blinding and distracting. I could hardly see after I passed him. I think it is a horrible idea.

KD5NRH

And I have nipples. Doesn't mean they're good for anything.

Shimagnolo

Why do men have nipples?
It's God's way of saying: "You don't have them, but if you did, they'd be right there."
-- The comedian Gallagher

Matariki

I worry that motorists face so many red lights so often in traffic that red lights on the back of a bike, flashing or continuous, would blend in with all of the others. White lights would certainly be a bad idea, but what about amber? It is the standard to indicate caution, would be different from the sea of red tail and brake lights, and with growing use may be associated with bikes?

SBinNYC

There's a reason red is used for rear lights. Seeing a red rear light up ahead does not destroy night vision. Here's a link that describes the phenomenon. Flashlight Reviews and LED Modifications

It's the reason that photo dark rooms used a red light. It wasn't that exposed film was immune to red light. It allowed the dimmest light to be used so as not to expose the film.

The other problem is a flashing light. It can trigger epilepsy.

Photosensitive epilepsy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Flashing lights are banned on PBP. The ACP's rationale was the flashing hypnotizes the riders and makes them less alert. The epilepsy angle may be the cause.

jputnam

White flashing lights on school buses would be illegal here in Washington State, and in many other states that regulate the color and position of vehicle lighting.

Any white light to the rear is a hazard to the vehicle displaying it, since it misleads other road users as to the direction of travel. White belongs in the front, red in the back, with exceptions only for emergency services vehicles for which other users are supposed to pull off the roadway.

Bicyclists are particularly vulnerable road users, so cyclists should be especially concerned with other road users being able to identify where we are and which way we're heading. Requiring only cyclists to mislead other road users seems either very ill-considered or intentionally malicious.

CliffordK

Of course there are "wrong way" cyclists.

I could imagine approaching a wrong-way cyclist with a flashing white light and thinking oh, cool, I'm overtaking a rider... only to slam head-on into them, or require emergency evasive action.

Or, have a car that sees a wrong-way cyclist, and thinks the rider is already past, and pulls out right in front of them.

Amber is used on many European cars for rear turn signals and hazard lights, so it isn't that much more distinctive than red taillights.

One thing that sets bycycles apart from other traffic is generally using higher frequency flashing.

There were several tests conducted before the widespread adoption of the cyclops brake lights. Even so, there are questions if the statistics were higher during the adoption phase than what is now being observed.

Is this white light thing going into law without any scientific research? Or, do we just consider LA as a test-city?

FBinNY 

+1,

I've been using a flashing amber for decades, though for the last 5 years replaced it with a flashing blue. Neither is legal in NYS, but it's never been an issue. I prefer these because they appear brighter at the same wattage and contrast better with what other lights are out there.

Once, many years ago a cop stopped me over the amber strobe. These are supposed to indicate stationary hazards like holes on the ground. I explained that I felt amber made more sense for a bicycle because given the relative speed of the bike and a car coming from behind, I might as well have been stationary and wanted the car to react accordingly. The cop was fine with that.

If I made law, I'd make flashing amber th standard for bicycles and all slow moving vehicles, but you don't have to worry since I don't make laws.

asmac

Actually, older b/w film and paper was not sensitive to red light. It was called "orthochromatic" and resulted in blank blue skies and dark rendition of red tones. "Panchromatic" materials are sensitive to all colours and must be handled in complete darkness.

Most modern b/w photo papers (is that an oxymoron?) are not sensitive in the amber range and use a specific darkroom light in that colour.

genec

I used amber light for years... I had three belt beacons on an aluminum plate attached to the back of my seat.



I felt the amber light made me stand out, and the somewhat random pattern of three blinking lights ensured that it would catch the eye of just about any motorist.

These days I run with three red lights... a PB super flash, with it's unique flashing pattern, a nite rider 24 LED tail light... on steady, and a small blinkie on the back of my helmet.

The odd flashing patterns, plus the hi-low positioning, I think make me quite visible.

I think white would be confusing, but an amber light makes sense to me... anything to make motorists look twice.

In front I run a blinking LED as a "see me" light, along with a nite rider classic halogen lamp that gives me "see the road" lighting.

I believe the big key is flashing lights, and lots of them... of course this is all dependent on where and how you ride... I ride on 45 and 50 MPH arterial roads through commercial areas at night... I want to stand out like the alien mothership.

Coal Buster

The human eye is most sensitive to the spectral line produced by sodium vapor lamps. Amber LEDs peak at that line (590nm).

KD5NRH

Can we build a big, impenetrable dome over it to protect the experiment from outside influences?

Wanderer

Better check DOT regulations. It's illegal. Could get you a ticket, or place blame in a crash.....

FBinNY 

If you mean that the state law is in conflict with Federal law and regulations, then it won't be the first time. I can think of much more significant conflicts that are playing out all over the country.

Meanwhile, unless the Feds are going to start patrolling the roads, who would issue a citation for the federal violation.

Wanderer

Local cops do it all the time, under CFR............ as most moving violation tickets are written under CFR.

Why give a cop a reason to stop you********** A white tail light will do that, and tickets are frequently written just because of broken red lenses.