LuckySailor

So I pulled the pin let last year to purchase a new custom made pair of cycling shoes to address a difference in leg lengths. The shoes will cost $1300. I researched several companies and decided on this one before making the commitment of a $300 non refundable deposit. Sent the deposit in July. He promptly sent out the necessary items for me to make an impression of my feet and take measurements. I did this in late October. (Life got in the way of doing it sooner) The owner of the company walked my wife thru the impression process by Skype. That all went well. When we were all done, I asked if it was still possible to have these delivered by Christmas. "Shouldn't be a problem" was what we were told. Shortly before Christmas, I call the owner and asked if everything was on track and he said no he is way behind. I asked if possibly by late February as I would be in the states then and he could mail them to where I was going to be. He would try. Now, when I started this process, the delivery time was 4-6 weeks. Now the company website says 12+ weeks. It changed to that on November 3rd (the day that he received my order). I am currently at 19 weeks. What would you do? Write it off, go find another manufacturer? Contact the Consumer Protection Agency? Is this extortion? I'm fine with a non refundable deposit when the goods are delivered in a timely fashion-but this seems to be a moving target.

In late February, I contact again, and he told me that I was 6 weeks out still. I should have them by the end of March is what he wrote to me. It's 7 days from the end of March. That's not going to happen. The communities thoughts are appreciated-good, bad or indifferent.

BlazingPedals

I guess I'd have already done this, but call him one more time. Give him maybe 4 weeks to put either the shoes or your deposit in your hands or you will begin taking steps, beginning with a report to the CPA. Unfortunately, legal action will cost a lot more than what you've paid out at this point.

If you just needed a shoe sole built up, couldn't a normal shoe repair place do that to the shoe of your choice?

Cyclosaurus

My experience with situations like this is to be persistent. Whether he's honestly just really behind or there is something shadier going on, the most important thing is for him to know you are not going away. If he feels like the least amount of work and trouble for him is to just fill your order, he's more likely to do it. Hate to say it, but what you have to do is essentially say, "screw over someone else because I'm not giving up". So he'll prioritize you over someone who is not calling, writing letters, disputing the charge (assuming you used a credit card), etc.

Little Darwin

I don't have the issue, but I am curious about what makes the shoes so expensive. I know cycling shoes are ridiculously expensive anyway, but I suspect that part of the issue is giving you the additional height without adding too much weight.

As mentioned above, one last communication. If the guy is that busy, he probably has a lot of angry people waiting, and will probably opt to return your deposit so that he can concentrate on making other people happy... Or he is a fraud, but not a very good one if he is still in communication.

I have heard of people using different length cranks, but that seems sub-optimal to me, and is probably why you are seeking a custom solution.

LuckySailor

Out of curiosity long ago, I asked him approximately how long it takes to craft a pair of shoes. He told me 8-10 hours of labor. I get that. I can relate to that in my field of making dentures-so even though I don't make that kind of money, after 30 years and with the expertise I have that's about where I should be. But that's another story. So I'm not upset at the cost. Of course less expensive would be better as I am not rich. Actually adding the additional height that I require only adds $50 to the cost-and that's right on par with what it costs here to have my street shoes altered when I get a new pair. I figured that he would refund the deposit as well just to keep me happy-or get me off his back. But not happening according to him. So I wait. I would rather refund and get some work off my bench than have to come to work every day knowing that I have a mountain of work sitting in front of me and there's no end in sight. Sad, really. Work your butt off your whole freakin life-for what? Glad I'm not in his shoes-hmmmmmm-didn't mean it that way!

LuckySailor

Yes the squeaky wheel gets the oil trick. I contemplated this of course. But part of that problem means that he's spending more and more time dealing with phone calls and emails than working on getting orders out the door.

Darth Lefty 

Is this the seller's job or his hobby?

TrojanHorse

Don't people normally just use shims under the cleats to address leg length differences? I don't know what your discrepancy is, but $15 and readily available vs $1300 and vapor ware... you choose.

Do you have his delivery commitments in writing?

I'd summarize up your communications with him and reach out to him - say you understand he's busy but you've been waiting what you believe to be an excessive amount of time for something that only takes 8 hours of labor. Give him a reasonable deadline (2 weeks?) and ask him to either deliver the shoes to you or refund your deposit and you'll go elsewhere. See what he says. If he complies, you're golden, if not you can always take him to small claims court although I don't know how that would work with your geographic separation.

If that doesn't work, then go full internet-ape*** on him.

LuckySailor

Yes this is his day job. Going nuts on him and his company is sort of a no brainer-Not my style, and I'm refraining from that. BUT, peave me off……...thats why I can't figure out why in this day and age, why anyone would want a pissed off customer, potential or not. I sent off an email earlier today, once more nicely outlining delivery and the timeliness of things. I'm sure he will reply tomorrow. He's been good about responses. His website is vague with delivery at this point. It used to say 4-6 weeks. Now it says 12+ weeks. It changed according to him in November (when he received my order). As far as shims go. I need 3/4" worth. Thats too much to shim as the shoe will not be stable at the cleat and supported properly. Also, adding that much to the front of your shoe, would make it nearly if not impossible to walk in.

Stucky

How did you pay the deposit?

If by credit card, do a chargeback, NOW, as six months +/- is usually the deadline.

If via PayEnemy..err...PayPal, it's technically already past their 45 day limit, but if you call them and explain that the item was not received, they may well refund you. (DO NOT use the word "deposit" with PayPal- call it a partial payment/down-payment, whatever....)

If you sent him a check, you're probably SOL.

At this point, I'd be doing whatever to get the deposit back. Do not wait any longer- this amount of time is ABSURD! If this is the way the idiot does business, I would not want his product. Suppose he finally comes through and delivers, and then there is a problem with the shoes and you need to send them back for modification or something? What, will you have to wait a year to get them back? No-no......at this point, the guy has lost all credibility. Get your money back by any means possible- and exhaust all options- i.e. call his state's Distric Attorney's office; Consumer Protection Agency; BBB(if he's a member); Ripoffreport.com - even file a claim in his jurisdiction's Small Claims court- even if you have no intention of actually going there, his just getting served via mail will get his attention and scare him, because he knows that he doesn't have a leg to stand on (Make the amount of the claim foir several thousand dollars, that way he'll have to either settle with you, or waste his time going to the court so that he doesn't lose by default!)

But for goodness's sake....STOP WAITING!

cale

The best plan is to call him and cancel the order. Ask politely for a refund but mention that you have medical needs that need to be met, not put off.

In the meantime, find someone reliable that can help you with your shoes. The other deal will probably never result in a refund. Worse things have happened.

I'd take note that 12+ weeks is essentially a non-commitment for delivery/production and reflects a partiularly casual approach to business.

quicktrigger

I'm with Stucky. I'm reasonable, "things" do happen. But when I smell a rat, I become a real PITA. If I didn't deliver in my job and was weeks late, I would be looking for a new job pronto. In your case it sounds like the "non-refundable" was because this is the norm.

QT

curlyque

I was a one man shop for 18 years.

If they wanted my stuff they waited...thank you very much :-)

Stucky

Yeah, I think generally, non-refundable when it comes to deposits, means "Non-refundable if you change your mind". Not non-refundable if we fail to deliver the product. since OP says there was no specific time-frame mentioned in the contract, I think "what is reasonable" would apply here, and certainly no one would consider 5 or 6 months reasonable.

I've been in one-man businesses virtually all of my adult life.....and if there's one thing that has ensured that virtually all of my customers are well pleased, it is that I make realistic schedules and adhere to them. If I can not offer fast service, I let the customer know, and allow them to make the decision whether they want to wait or go elsewhere. Being non-commital or dragging something out for 5 or 6 months is not an option for me- not even when i was teenager. It is no way for an adult to do business. If you tell the customer up-front that he has to wait 6 months, that's one thing; but promising a few weeks and then dragging it out; or being vague about a time-frame, is not acceptable.

curlyque

Ambiguous completion scheds were an acceptable biz practice for me because I was in demand...thank you very much :-)

Oh those wonderful willy-nilly times. Gone but not forgotten

quicktrigger

FWIW, my parents were in the roofing business. Things happened all the time. Weather was the biggest problem, but occasionally other things happened as well. They set their own schedule and it was generally a lose first come first serve kind of thing. Sometimes people had to wait, but never did they have to wait months, and if a schedule slipped, it was very rare for it to be more than a couple days, certainly not months. They always gave a realistic schedule up front. Sometimes they doubled up so that they could get back on schedule. They were VERY MUCH in demand, and it did not matter what the economy was doing. Bad economy, and they were buried. Good economy, and they were buried. Part of that was due to quality of work, part due to price per job, and part was because they were good at keeping a realistic schedules. So that has allot to do with where I'm coming from, plus in my job we do not miss deadlines.

QT

curlyque

A lot has to do with what you're peddling.

I was designing and fabricating architectural embellishments.

I got lucky for a while and was able to call the shots...it's what artisans hope to achieve commercially..... making clients cringe with a smile on their face when you tell them what it's going to cost, and how long it's going to take :-)

I only jumped in on this because it seems to be 'a' position the custom shoe designer 'could' be in. Good for him/her if that's the case.

Stucky

Exactly. Sometimes, things beyond your control happen- but how you handle them says a lot. If there was ever a problem with a deadline, first thing I'd do is call the customer and explain, and give them the option of waiting, or a refund; or of me sending a substitute to get the job done- even if it meant me losing the revenue from that job entirely. Any revenue lost that way, would be more than made up for in new word-of-mouth business, and in getting jobs in the future over my more unreliable competitors. How many times did I hear "Yeah, I called XYZ, but they never showed u" or "....were three hours late"!

The shoemaker the OP is dealing with, is a disgrace. The fact that he is not offering the OP a full and prompt refund, and a profuse apology, would lead me to believe that he is not an honorable person, and i would not want to have any dealings him- I don't care if he makes the best shoes in the world and gives me a 50% discount. People who treat others like that are just scum.

Stucky

It's not just about what you can do- It's about being honorable and valuing the time of others, as you want them to value yours. Even if I were the best in the world, and were doing people a favor by accepting their business, I'm still not going to dick them around. The quality of your product or service is one aspect of business. How you treat your customers and prospective customers, is just as important.

LuckySailor

I appreciate everyone chiming on! Thanks. I have to agree with curlyque-for the most part. Finally after 30 years of fabricating dentures and crowns, bridges, etc, I am getting what I want, and what I feel I am worth when I do a case for a dentist. Some of us spend our whole career building ourselves up to be the best, be the most informed, be technically the best craftsman. And then finally, you say, "If you want me to do this, it will take "X" time, and cost "X" dollars. Otherwise, take your business elsewhere." It's not arrogance. It earned, believe me with a lot of heart ache and hours. It's also breaking yourself out of the mold of charging what everyone else charges. I haven't played that game for over a decade.

UPDATE! I sent an email yesterday outlining my problem with the lack of service that I am getting. This morning, I got an email apology, and a commitment to fabricate the shoes and have them sent out no later than April 3. Shop owner called me directly this afternoon, again apologized, and stated he understood exactly why I was mad. I was mistreated, and he now has that under control. So fingers crossed, but this should all work out in the next 10 days.

Stucky

I actually had looked into going into the dental fabrication business when I was in my 20's......but I came to the conclusion that the compensation wasn't commensurate for the degree of skill and time involved.

I hope THIS TIME the cobbler keeps his word........

KenshiBiker

I hope you get your shoes soon.

This thread was very distressing for me to read, because I've been contemplating custom shoes for a couple of years now. Please post initial impressions when you get them, and follow up with a long-term review.

quicktrigger

Hope it works out for you.

FWIW, IMHO that is still no reason to act as he has. My parents always told them what they could do, how much it would cost, and when they could do it. That was the bottom line, and it wasn't going to change. They could have easily commanded a much higher price, but they were doing well and saw no need to go beyond what they were doing, whether they could or not.

QT

Homebrew01

I hope it's not the same guy Rad55 used to paint his frame ..... took 5+ years I think.

I have been happy with Discover Card's service when dealing with bad retailers.

By the way, what if the shoes aren't comfortable once you get them ?? I can't imagine shoes costing $1300.

Camilo

I'm of the camp to simply ask for a refund since he hasn't delivered the goods. And yes, at this point this is a fact.

. If he refuses, then you have a problem, but until that happens you're just spinning your wheels.