BikeFriday possible sale. Not a bike, the company.
#126
Senior Member
I'm not sure discussions of the tikit are relevant now, they don't make them. I've owned several BFs similar to ones they're still building - including the PakiT - and am not convinced they are marketable options in 2019. Which is the crux of my argument, I'm certainly not saying they are bad bikes or that current owners shouldn't be happy with them. I'm talking business.
#127
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
I'm not sure discussions of the tikit are relevant now, they don't make them. I've owned several BFs similar to ones they're still building - including the PakiT - and am not convinced they are marketable options in 2019. Which is the crux of my argument, I'm certainly not saying they are bad bikes or that current owners shouldn't be happy with them. I'm talking business.
#128
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18376 Post(s)
Liked 4,511 Times
in
3,353 Posts
I'm not sure discussions of the tikit are relevant now, they don't make them. I've owned several BFs similar to ones they're still building - including the PakiT - and am not convinced they are marketable options in 2019. Which is the crux of my argument, I'm certainly not saying they are bad bikes or that current owners shouldn't be happy with them. I'm talking business.
We need details why BF is running with a 2 month lag time in the middle of the winter, and still struggling.
@linberl does make an argument for too many models. Some are highly related, so the Pocket Rocket and NWT share many features. Others are less related.
Nonetheless, I'm not convinced a variety costs them, although they might be able to concentrate on streamlining production some if they only had a single model.
Nonetheless, there are buyers of say the Pocket Rocket that wouldn't necessarily purchase other models, perhaps not at all. Perhaps going to an S&S bike over other folders.
#129
Senior Member
They apparently aren't outwardly "marketing" to anyone, instead relying on (an antiquated) word-of-mouth method within a very small segment of bicyclists who might be potential customers. Reaching forward to interest and capture NEW BF customers is what marketing is all about. I'm in sales and as we say "it's a contact sport".
Marketing isn't necessarily costly in todays internet/forum/instagram age....but somebody HAS to actively do it.
Brompton is pretty good at their marketing this way.
Additionally, super-slicing that very small market-space (folding & travel bikes) with so many models means they don't manufacture any of them with any economies of scale, and inasmuch from a business/numerical standpoint and of course that's a BIG issue in any manufacturing concern of any size, boutique or otherwise.
Brompton has this figured out...yes FEWER model(s).
Marketing isn't necessarily costly in todays internet/forum/instagram age....but somebody HAS to actively do it.
Brompton is pretty good at their marketing this way.
Additionally, super-slicing that very small market-space (folding & travel bikes) with so many models means they don't manufacture any of them with any economies of scale, and inasmuch from a business/numerical standpoint and of course that's a BIG issue in any manufacturing concern of any size, boutique or otherwise.
Brompton has this figured out...yes FEWER model(s).
#130
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
Well, they could do fewer models easily. One basic frame, the Osata. Fully adjustable to any length. From there it's pretty easy to do a drop bar or flat bar, a 20" or 16". Same frame on the HAD cargo bike. But marketing just a compact cargo bike and a single adjustable length folding bike would simplify and clarify marketing. The customization options on this single model could then incorporate the flat/drop/wheel size options. That would make it incredibly unique and yet allow economies of scale, I would think. I would have loved the option of the Osata frame on my pakiT to make it usable by other riders.
#131
Palmer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,625
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1668 Post(s)
Liked 1,821 Times
in
1,059 Posts
#132
Palmer
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 8,625
Bikes: Mike Melton custom, Alex Moulton AM, Dahon Curl
Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1668 Post(s)
Liked 1,821 Times
in
1,059 Posts
Interested in how either 16" or 20" wheels could be put on the same frame and result in two viable bicycles. Example of another manufacturer already doing this?
#133
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Greensboro, NC
Posts: 1,498
Bikes: Many Downtube Folders :)
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 282 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 24 Times
in
17 Posts
I don't have one in production, however I have a sample on order that will accept three different wheel sizes, 305,349,406.
Thanks
Yan
Thanks
Yan
__________________
Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
Designer of Downtube Folding Bike
Ph.D. Temple University ( Math )
Biked across the USA twice
Semi-active chess player ( two time Bahamas National Champion )
Sivananda ( Bahamas ) Trained Yoga instructor ( 2013 ) and ThetaHealer since 2013
Bicycle delivery worker for Jimmy John's. Delivering is the best workout I have ever had.
#134
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18376 Post(s)
Liked 4,511 Times
in
3,353 Posts
Many of the current generation of OSATA frames are non-foldable, and wouldn't make sense with 16" wheels. But, for the folding bikes, there are 3 separate components, rear triangle, main frame, and fork. It would be possible to use a common main frame with different forks/rear triangles.
Nonetheless, the Bantam isn't simply a smaller NWT
#135
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
Since the bike friday frame is basically just a "top tube" with a fork/headset opening and a seat mast opening, I don't see why it can't easily be done. Wouldn't the rear triangle and the front fork determine what wheels are used? Or am I badly confused? As to tikits, I personally know 3 riders still riding theirs after the recall repair without any incident.
Bantam is a radically resized bike, and probably not something that makes them much money so it would not survive the adjustable frame alteration.
Bantam is a radically resized bike, and probably not something that makes them much money so it would not survive the adjustable frame alteration.
#136
Senior Member
I think OSATA on NWTs would drive those buyers away. Most people don't need an adjustable length frame, and the 'take apart' feature isn't necessary with the fold/take-apart already extant for that style. It works for the HAD which uses that feature as the only way to downsize for travel.
#137
Member
I think OSATA on NWTs would drive those buyers away. Most people don't need an adjustable length frame, and the 'take apart' feature isn't necessary with the fold/take-apart already extant for that style. It works for the HAD which uses that feature as the only way to downsize for travel.
But I think in the medium price range (up to 2500$ for non-electric) it could totally work to reduce configuration option. Something like 3 model lines with 5 frame sizes in 5 colours and maybe 3 gearing options. Still some choice for customers, but it would allow to streamline production a lot. In the area of cargo bikes there are a lot of expensive ones that are not really configurable.
#138
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
I think Osata works for a couple reasons. One, you can share the bike amongst family members. Now remember, we're talking about trying to get into the less-tech bike market, the family market, so this is a selling point if you're trying to expand your business. Second, it makes the resale so much easier! I remember having to search months to find a used BF in my size. And I ended up selling one instead of giving it to my son because it was too small for him. An adjustable frame makes any used bike an option, easier to sell or to gift to a family member or friend. Another bonus point for increasing the market is that it's also a bike you can buy for your kid and it can grow with them through college and beyond (and bike fridays easily last 20+ years).
If they are going to try to keep to the limited market they have, sure....the slight weight addition is a drawback. If they are going to continue to just market to travelers then sure, the Osata isn't needed. But they're not going to survive if they just do what they've always done.
An Osata based system can still be US made and customizable, keeping the nature of BF intact.
If they are going to try to keep to the limited market they have, sure....the slight weight addition is a drawback. If they are going to continue to just market to travelers then sure, the Osata isn't needed. But they're not going to survive if they just do what they've always done.
An Osata based system can still be US made and customizable, keeping the nature of BF intact.
#139
Member
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 31
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
2 Posts
OSATA is simply an abbreviation that Bike Friday came up with... One Size Adjusts to All. So, their sliding frame technology could be used on a diverse number of models.
Many of the current generation of OSATA frames are non-foldable, and wouldn't make sense with 16" wheels. But, for the folding bikes, there are 3 separate components, rear triangle, mainframe, and fork. It would be possible to use a common main frame with different forks/rear triangles.
Nonetheless, the Bantam isn't simply a smaller NWT
Many of the current generation of OSATA frames are non-foldable, and wouldn't make sense with 16" wheels. But, for the folding bikes, there are 3 separate components, rear triangle, mainframe, and fork. It would be possible to use a common main frame with different forks/rear triangles.
Nonetheless, the Bantam isn't simply a smaller NWT
#141
Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,547
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18376 Post(s)
Liked 4,511 Times
in
3,353 Posts
But, based on the 2015/2016 disclosures, my guess is that the free and clear buyout price would be about $3 Million.
Moderately less if one wished to assume a mountain of debt.
The disclosure also stated that they have no patents.
If one wishes to have a bike business, one would have to weigh starting new from scratch vs buying an existing company. Although, I wouldn't choose to do direct competition with a local company.
#142
Senior Member
Hi All. I currently work at Bike Friday. I've been following this thread with interest and it really seems like there should be an official response. First, thank you all for caring about Bike Friday and our bikes. We've been able to hand build custom bikes for people as long as we have because of the passion of our community. Thank you!
It's upsetting to me that one of our ex-employees has been misrepresenting internal matters on this thread. The user 'Jarlybart' has been venting in a number of Social Media platforms after leaving Bike Friday - even after being requested to stop. Seeing that they seemed to have joined Bike Forums for this purpose is very disheartening.
I believe in honesty and connecting with the community so I or someone else at Bike Friday will be frequently checking this thread to answer everyone's questions. We've also put up a blog post on our website: Bike Friday Looks for a New Business Partner Bring on your thoughts and questions!
It's upsetting to me that one of our ex-employees has been misrepresenting internal matters on this thread. The user 'Jarlybart' has been venting in a number of Social Media platforms after leaving Bike Friday - even after being requested to stop. Seeing that they seemed to have joined Bike Forums for this purpose is very disheartening.
I believe in honesty and connecting with the community so I or someone else at Bike Friday will be frequently checking this thread to answer everyone's questions. We've also put up a blog post on our website: Bike Friday Looks for a New Business Partner Bring on your thoughts and questions!
Likes For Enthusiast:
#143
Stardust
Hi All. I currently work at Bike Friday. I've been following this thread with interest and it really seems like there should be an official response. First, thank you all for caring about Bike Friday and our bikes. We've been able to hand build custom bikes for people as long as we have because of the passion of our community. Thank you!
It's upsetting to me that one of our ex-employees has been misrepresenting internal matters on this thread. The user 'Jarlybart' has been venting in a number of Social Media platforms after leaving Bike Friday - even after being requested to stop. Seeing that they seemed to have joined Bike Forums for this purpose is very disheartening.
I believe in honesty and connecting with the community so I or someone else at Bike Friday will be frequently checking this thread to answer everyone's questions. We've also put up a blog post on our website: Bike Friday Looks for a New Business Partner Bring on your thoughts and questions!
It's upsetting to me that one of our ex-employees has been misrepresenting internal matters on this thread. The user 'Jarlybart' has been venting in a number of Social Media platforms after leaving Bike Friday - even after being requested to stop. Seeing that they seemed to have joined Bike Forums for this purpose is very disheartening.
I believe in honesty and connecting with the community so I or someone else at Bike Friday will be frequently checking this thread to answer everyone's questions. We've also put up a blog post on our website: Bike Friday Looks for a New Business Partner Bring on your thoughts and questions!
come to south america! Argentina, Uruguay e Brazil will greet you with open aarms!
#144
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
Hi All. I currently work at Bike Friday. I've been following this thread with interest and it really seems like there should be an official response. First, thank you all for caring about Bike Friday and our bikes. We've been able to hand build custom bikes for people as long as we have because of the passion of our community. Thank you!
It's upsetting to me that one of our ex-employees has been misrepresenting internal matters on this thread. The user 'Jarlybart' has been venting in a number of Social Media platforms after leaving Bike Friday - even after being requested to stop. Seeing that they seemed to have joined Bike Forums for this purpose is very disheartening.
I believe in honesty and connecting with the community so I or someone else at Bike Friday will be frequently checking this thread to answer everyone's questions. We've also put up a blog post on our website: Bike Friday Looks for a New Business Partner Bring on your thoughts and questions!
It's upsetting to me that one of our ex-employees has been misrepresenting internal matters on this thread. The user 'Jarlybart' has been venting in a number of Social Media platforms after leaving Bike Friday - even after being requested to stop. Seeing that they seemed to have joined Bike Forums for this purpose is very disheartening.
I believe in honesty and connecting with the community so I or someone else at Bike Friday will be frequently checking this thread to answer everyone's questions. We've also put up a blog post on our website: Bike Friday Looks for a New Business Partner Bring on your thoughts and questions!
#145
Senior Member
#146
Senior Member
There are two sides to every story.
Glad that BF is “officially” joining this conversation (although in reality, the status of their family business isnt any of ours....the tone of this thread has been partially out of genuine interest in a legendary and unique product and its makers, and partially out of pure voyeurism. The “train wreck” effect)
Here’s hoping there is “nothing to see here” and BF and its family ownership and extended family of employees weather this storm so everyone wins. This is American small business....warts and all.
Glad that BF is “officially” joining this conversation (although in reality, the status of their family business isnt any of ours....the tone of this thread has been partially out of genuine interest in a legendary and unique product and its makers, and partially out of pure voyeurism. The “train wreck” effect)
Here’s hoping there is “nothing to see here” and BF and its family ownership and extended family of employees weather this storm so everyone wins. This is American small business....warts and all.
#147
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
Yeah, we've all disagreed with things our bosses have done, I'm sure. Jarly seems to have taken it personally (and who knows, maybe there was a personality conflict). I'm just interested in the company surviving without losing their soul, regardless of who is at the helm. I know it can't happen, but I would love to see a worker co-op! There's a super successful pizza company here where the owners literally gave the business to the workers when they retired (I know, different situation) and now they have 4 more locations; the owner/employees work their butts off and reap the benefits. Even an investor/owner who would sell partial ownership in the company to the employees would be pretty cool.
#148
Senior Member
My interest is primarily in seeing a product they can market successfully in a shockingly different cycling world from the one they entered in 1989. I think the NWT/Llama design is still viable as packable bike that rides "normally", but the fiddly and incomplete fold is not. The stem needs to be hinged, and the whole product needs to fold down fairly quickly and lock into place. With this, the "made in USA" feature and the electric conversions they provide, I think it's workable.
Bike Friday makes wonderful bicycles - I've owned 4 or 5 of them including HAD and PakiT - the product line just needs some updating and streamlining to keep rolling into the new decade.
Bike Friday makes wonderful bicycles - I've owned 4 or 5 of them including HAD and PakiT - the product line just needs some updating and streamlining to keep rolling into the new decade.
#149
Full Member
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Ludwigshafen
Posts: 483
Bikes: Pocket Llama
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 30 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 4 Times
in
3 Posts
I just hope that BF keep doing their business.We own two bikes and we really love them.We been so many places in the world as you can see https://lococoupleonabike.com/ and never had any problem
The one thing I don t like is that they don t have anyone to import the bikes to Europe. This means every time I needed something I had to pay the shipping plus the custom and this is really expensive. Shortly they replaced my rear rack and I was lucky that I didn t have to pay customs taxes .If not the folding rear rack would have cost me more then 200€.
This happened to a guy from France. He contacted me over my blog and I helped him to get his BF. He forgot about the custom taxes. So he got his bike last week and he almost died when he saw the numbers. He needed to pay almost half of the bike price. It cost him really very expensive. People in Europe think twice before buying a BF therefore and often check other alternatives.
All the best for BF, and I hope they enter the European market soon!!
The one thing I don t like is that they don t have anyone to import the bikes to Europe. This means every time I needed something I had to pay the shipping plus the custom and this is really expensive. Shortly they replaced my rear rack and I was lucky that I didn t have to pay customs taxes .If not the folding rear rack would have cost me more then 200€.
This happened to a guy from France. He contacted me over my blog and I helped him to get his BF. He forgot about the custom taxes. So he got his bike last week and he almost died when he saw the numbers. He needed to pay almost half of the bike price. It cost him really very expensive. People in Europe think twice before buying a BF therefore and often check other alternatives.
All the best for BF, and I hope they enter the European market soon!!
#150
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 3,463
Bikes: Trident Spike 2 recumbent trike w/ e-assist
Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1321 Post(s)
Liked 374 Times
in
288 Posts
My interest is primarily in seeing a product they can market successfully in a shockingly different cycling world from the one they entered in 1989. I think the NWT/Llama design is still viable as packable bike that rides "normally", but the fiddly and incomplete fold is not. The stem needs to be hinged, and the whole product needs to fold down fairly quickly and lock into place. With this, the "made in USA" feature and the electric conversions they provide, I think it's workable.
Bike Friday makes wonderful bicycles - I've owned 4 or 5 of them including HAD and PakiT - the product line just needs some updating and streamlining to keep rolling into the new decade.
Bike Friday makes wonderful bicycles - I've owned 4 or 5 of them including HAD and PakiT - the product line just needs some updating and streamlining to keep rolling into the new decade.