Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Training & Nutrition
Reload this Page >

First estimate of Zones

Search
Notices
Training & Nutrition Learn how to develop a training schedule that's good for you. What should you eat and drink on your ride? Learn everything you need to know about training and nutrition here.

First estimate of Zones

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 03-01-19, 08:27 AM
  #1  
Road Fan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,868

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 661 Times in 504 Posts
First estimate of Zones

I think I got some of the numerics wrong ...

Reading the good descriptions of zones in Allen and Coggan Training and Racing with a Power Meter (c. 2006), my experiences of my highest stress test walking point lead me to conclude I was on the difficult side of Zone 4. He basically describes the different zones along several experiential metrics: sensation of difficulty, ease of conversation, and breathing. My experience aligns best with Zone 4.

In any case, I'm going to start "gentle" level 1/2 base training (just daily pedaling) based on the assumption that my max hr, based on the 220-age formula, is 155. bpm. I assume that value is at the top of Z5C. I also assume that the upper limit of one zone is equal to the lower limit of the next zone up. The zones that fall out of these assumptions, using Friel's Handbook 4th ed Table 4.6, are

Z1 is 93 to 112
Z2 is 112 to 126
Z3 is 126 to 132
Z4 is 132 to 141
Z5A is141 to 145
Z5B is 145 to 149
Z5C is 149 to 155.

This essentially follows the population MaxHR estimate of MHR = 220 - 65 = 155. Historically (Conconi and Ramp tests done around 1997) my max has been well above the population value. This estimate is therefore conservative and errs on the safe side, but it lets me get going at least to work in the fat-burning regions, and to train my saddle and other contact points, also to work on pedaling. I also need to learn how to do a 30 minute time trial so I can do the LT test. I've never done any kind of TT. This will be the beginning of Preparation per Friel's concept.

When I do the TT I'll have a reasonable indication of LT, so I'll go back to Friel's table and revise my zones.

Thanks to Carbonfiberboy, Machka, Rubiksoval, Hermes, and FSTRNU whose interactions, dialogue with me, and ongoing posting have helped me get this far.

Last edited by Road Fan; 03-09-19 at 06:43 PM.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 03-01-19, 10:54 PM
  #2  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,527

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3885 Post(s)
Liked 1,938 Times in 1,383 Posts
Do you have a long steady hill nearby?
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 03-02-19, 10:10 AM
  #3  
Road Fan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,868

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 661 Times in 504 Posts
No, rollers.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 03-02-19, 10:34 AM
  #4  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,527

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3885 Post(s)
Liked 1,938 Times in 1,383 Posts
Originally Posted by Road Fan
No, rollers.
Here's how I do it on my rollers: Warm up into the deep breathing, but not quite fast yet zone for 20 minutes. Then hit it very hard at 90+ cadence for 1.5 minutes, then 3.5' of easy spinning, another 1.5 hard, 3.5 easy, then you're at 30'. Immediately reset your equipment and then pedal as hard as possible for 12', all-out effort, pretty high cadence, ramp it up at the end to absolutely as hard as you can go. Your average HR for the 12 minutes will be close enough to LTHR.

This is easy to do, no great talent or training necessary to get it right.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 03-02-19, 01:47 PM
  #5  
fstrnu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Not sure about rollers but I like the idea of practicing for a test twice before going for it. One of the British Cycling plans does this but literally just spent 30 minutes trying to find that plan but for some reason I can’t at least on my phone. I’ll try again once back at my PC on Monday.

The idea though is to perform two practice seassions to get a feel for where you are to help you plan a pace without the strain of an actual test.
fstrnu is offline  
Old 03-03-19, 10:00 PM
  #6  
Road Fan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,868

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 661 Times in 504 Posts
I have rolling hills, not training rollers
Road Fan is offline  
Old 03-04-19, 03:28 AM
  #7  
canklecat
Me duelen las nalgas
 
canklecat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Texas
Posts: 13,513

Bikes: Centurion Ironman, Trek 5900, Univega Via Carisma, Globe Carmel

Mentioned: 199 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4559 Post(s)
Liked 2,802 Times in 1,800 Posts
We only have roller coaster routes too, no long steady climbs. I pick a few routes to cover all four major compass directions and wait for wind to make that route more challenging. Only way I can put in a long, steady effort.

In springtime we often get 20-25 mph steady wind. I'll pick a route 2-6 miles long, usually with a modest 1% overall grade (undulating between 6% or more and -6%), mostly around open prairie so the wind is mostly unhindered. A few routes have some tree cover and low spots that shield the wind a bit, but it's still a good effort. Even a 5-10 mph wind can matter more than 5-10 lbs of extra weight.

It also forces me to work from the saddle. Often I'm tempted to stand to climb when my momentum sags, but that's inefficient into stiff headwind -- and occasionally a little dangerous with gusting crosswind.

Also encourages me to work on my tuck and staying aero. Due to old injuries (neck, back, shoulder) I tend to sit up most of the time. But I'll make an effort into headwinds to stay tucked longer.

A couple of my usual routes have some half-mile to 1 mile downhills of 2%-5% -- with 20-25 mph headwind those take work to go much faster than 12-15 mph. So there are opportunities to get in some work on windy days.

And the return trip with tailwind is fun. Free speed. Good chance to get some PRs.
canklecat is offline  
Old 03-04-19, 06:53 AM
  #8  
fstrnu
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Lexington, KY
Posts: 389
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 232 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Road Fan
I have rolling hills, not training rollers
Do intervals on your trainer. Stack some books under your front wheel to get position right.
fstrnu is offline  
Old 03-04-19, 07:19 AM
  #9  
Road Fan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,868

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 661 Times in 504 Posts
right now I'm only doing LSD. In a week I'll do the LT test. I'm doing it flat on my Snap in Level mode.
Road Fan is offline  
Old 03-04-19, 07:22 AM
  #10  
Road Fan
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Road Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
Posts: 16,868

Bikes: 1980 Masi, 1984 Mondonico, 1984 Trek 610, 1980 Woodrup Giro, 2005 Mondonico Futura Leggera ELOS, 1967 PX10E, 1971 Peugeot UO-8

Mentioned: 49 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1854 Post(s)
Liked 661 Times in 504 Posts
Originally Posted by fstrnu
Not sure about rollers but I like the idea of practicing for a test twice before going for it. One of the British Cycling plans does this but literally just spent 30 minutes trying to find that plan but for some reason I can’t at least on my phone. I’ll try again once back at my PC on Monday.

The idea though is to perform two practice seassions to get a feel for where you are to help you plan a pace without the strain of an actual test.
Adtually that's been my plan for a few months.
Road Fan is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
jeff3069
Training & Nutrition
18
06-19-15 04:48 PM
hobkirk
Training & Nutrition
5
06-09-15 06:51 PM
Tall Cool One
Training & Nutrition
12
01-27-13 03:47 PM
wkndwarrior
Training & Nutrition
18
01-15-13 02:43 AM
hobkirk
Training & Nutrition
3
05-18-11 08:34 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.