Fixed-gear knee health
#1
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Fixed-gear knee health
Hi,
Why do people constantly say that riding a fixed-gear bicycle without brakes (fixed-gear riding with brakes can be very benificial for knee health) is bad for your knees.
The majority of people who ride fixies do it for fun - countless skids and bunny-hops, most of the time without proper foot retention - not to mention alot of those riders are running gear ratios over 75 GI without brakes. Riding like that will cause problems, but if you run a low gear ratio, have a correctly fitted bike with proper foot retention, and avoid excessive skidding and hard backpedalling - then surely you wouldn't run into the knee trouble unless knee problems are common in your family.
Riding fixed does put more strain on your knees, but running also puts strain on your knees and many people have been running for decades, so why do so many people write fixed-gear off as being bad for your joint health?
Cheers
Why do people constantly say that riding a fixed-gear bicycle without brakes (fixed-gear riding with brakes can be very benificial for knee health) is bad for your knees.
The majority of people who ride fixies do it for fun - countless skids and bunny-hops, most of the time without proper foot retention - not to mention alot of those riders are running gear ratios over 75 GI without brakes. Riding like that will cause problems, but if you run a low gear ratio, have a correctly fitted bike with proper foot retention, and avoid excessive skidding and hard backpedalling - then surely you wouldn't run into the knee trouble unless knee problems are common in your family.
Riding fixed does put more strain on your knees, but running also puts strain on your knees and many people have been running for decades, so why do so many people write fixed-gear off as being bad for your joint health?
Cheers
#2
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Riding fixed doesn't haven to be hard on the knees, but many people make it so.
The 1st mistake is riding overly high gears, especially if there's any climbing. This is common, because gearing lower tends to cap the top end speed that some look for.
There's also significant high stresses involved in reversing torque to stop or resist when descending. All of this can be managed if folks use some common sense, and I, for one, rode fixed for decades, including very hilly terrain, without any long term damage.
The 1st mistake is riding overly high gears, especially if there's any climbing. This is common, because gearing lower tends to cap the top end speed that some look for.
There's also significant high stresses involved in reversing torque to stop or resist when descending. All of this can be managed if folks use some common sense, and I, for one, rode fixed for decades, including very hilly terrain, without any long term damage.
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FB
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Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.
“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN
WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
#3
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Riding fixed doesn't haven to be hard on the knees, but many people make it so.
The 1st mistake is riding overly high gears, especially if there's any climbing. This is common, because gearing lower tends to cap the top end speed that some look for.
There's also significant high stresses involved in reversing torque to stop or resist when descending. All of this can be managed if folks use some common sense, and I, for one, rode fixed for decades, including very hilly terrain, without any long term damage.
The 1st mistake is riding overly high gears, especially if there's any climbing. This is common, because gearing lower tends to cap the top end speed that some look for.
There's also significant high stresses involved in reversing torque to stop or resist when descending. All of this can be managed if folks use some common sense, and I, for one, rode fixed for decades, including very hilly terrain, without any long term damage.
Do you still ever ride fixed?
Thanks
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From a rather uninformed novice, my knees feel subjectively healthier since I started riding fixed. I don't skid or back pedal hard, but I do back pedal lightly to control and regulate my speed on gentle slopes or in the run up to a full stop. After an initial increase in pain for the first week, my long-standing (2 years +) knee pain has actually decreased. I think this kind of eccentric work is quite beneficial for you.
#5
~>~
Echoing @FBinNY's experience riding FG on the road need not be harmful to the knees over decades of riding if done "properly".
The basics still apply from the old school club riding days when winter base miles were done on FG to build into the big loads of the coming racing season.
Some key elements in long term FG road riding:
Common Sense
Bike Fit
Restricted Gearing
Brake(s) Fitted
Foot Retention
Terrain Selection
Technique
Seat Time
Common Sense
I still ride a FG for distance in rolling terrain long after my 1st season with little change in set-up, technique or mind set.
-Bandera
The basics still apply from the old school club riding days when winter base miles were done on FG to build into the big loads of the coming racing season.
Some key elements in long term FG road riding:
Common Sense
Bike Fit
Restricted Gearing
Brake(s) Fitted
Foot Retention
Terrain Selection
Technique
Seat Time
Common Sense
I still ride a FG for distance in rolling terrain long after my 1st season with little change in set-up, technique or mind set.
-Bandera
Last edited by Bandera; 01-26-18 at 08:05 AM.
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I'm not sure that anyone cares enough to actually have studied this with any sort of scientific accuracy. So basically it's heresay. "People say..."
But I've been riding fixed for 20 years or so and have done a couple of fixed centuries. The first 10 were mostly brakeless. As I got older I found the stress from climbing and resisting the pedals for slowing and stopping were causing other parts of my body to tense up and ache, not my knees so much. So I put a brake on and I do most of my longer training rides on a geared bike and use my fixed gear for commuting and fun shorter rides. There's some truth to the saying "geared bikes are for people over 40"
But I've been riding fixed for 20 years or so and have done a couple of fixed centuries. The first 10 were mostly brakeless. As I got older I found the stress from climbing and resisting the pedals for slowing and stopping were causing other parts of my body to tense up and ache, not my knees so much. So I put a brake on and I do most of my longer training rides on a geared bike and use my fixed gear for commuting and fun shorter rides. There's some truth to the saying "geared bikes are for people over 40"
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I liked the mention of running and feel like there are lots of parallels. Your feet are always in motion (no coasting down hills when running a cross-country course!), and there are right and wrong ways to do it if you want to continue it into old age.
#8
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From a rather uninformed novice, my knees feel subjectively healthier since I started riding fixed. I don't skid or back pedal hard, but I do back pedal lightly to control and regulate my speed on gentle slopes or in the run up to a full stop. After an initial increase in pain for the first week, my long-standing (2 years +) knee pain has actually decreased. I think this kind of eccentric work is quite beneficial for you.
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If you live in a flat area I don't really see how riding fixed is that hard on your legs. Living in a hilly area I've learned to avoid mashing too big a gear and hard back pedaling. Skidding is mostly technique and doesn't hurt my knees/legs. I used to always try and back pedal because I didn't want to wear out my tires but to hell with them, they're cheaper than damaging my joints.
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Having an incorrectly fitted bike would be equivalent to running on extremely uneven terrain with holes and bumps to put undue stress on our joints.
Thanks for your response
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#12
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Living around Hilly areas, I would get some pain knee pain. I also like to skid a lot, and apply torque when going downhill. I've since used a front brake, and toned down on skidding, and have had not knee pain since then. YMMV.
#13
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I've found with common sense gearing the knees suffer no more than if on a geared bike.
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I've been riding fix gear for 42 years. Had CP (chrondomalcia patellae for 40; caused by a combination of probably being prone to it but not knowing, increasing my level of training and speed very fast (coming from rock bottom after a major head injury to fast enough for an early season race in a few weeks), not stretching my hamstrings, riding with cold knees and switching from 168 cranks to 175 and taking that long cranked bike (my race bike) for a March 100 mile training ride first time on it. In other words, breaking just about every CP rule there is.
I've kept riding fixed. If I do the CP regime and keep my rule-breaking down to a minimum, I can do just about anything I want on the fix gear. Yesterday I rode the "Worst Day of the Year" ride fixed. 2000' of climbing. Twice up to Skyline Blvd west of Portland. 2nd climb had us doing 476' in 1.18 miles (7.6% ave with an 11% max. I did it on a 42-17. Hard, yes. I had to pace myself. Glad I had a really good fitting and working bike and shoes/cleats because I was pulling/pushing hard. That evening, I could feel my knees a little. Yes I pushed it. Took one aspirin last night. I feel them still now. but I will probably ride fixed in town tonight easy. (I doubt the rest of my body is up to doing more!)
I've been doing rides like this sporadically the entire time I've been riding fixed. 100,000 miles. (I used to ride the same gear up Juaquim Miller over Oakland. Rode Mt Diablo in that gear also. Cycle Oregon 4 times. (Yes, I did bring extra cogs and changed them multiple times each day.)
Ben
I've kept riding fixed. If I do the CP regime and keep my rule-breaking down to a minimum, I can do just about anything I want on the fix gear. Yesterday I rode the "Worst Day of the Year" ride fixed. 2000' of climbing. Twice up to Skyline Blvd west of Portland. 2nd climb had us doing 476' in 1.18 miles (7.6% ave with an 11% max. I did it on a 42-17. Hard, yes. I had to pace myself. Glad I had a really good fitting and working bike and shoes/cleats because I was pulling/pushing hard. That evening, I could feel my knees a little. Yes I pushed it. Took one aspirin last night. I feel them still now. but I will probably ride fixed in town tonight easy. (I doubt the rest of my body is up to doing more!)
I've been doing rides like this sporadically the entire time I've been riding fixed. 100,000 miles. (I used to ride the same gear up Juaquim Miller over Oakland. Rode Mt Diablo in that gear also. Cycle Oregon 4 times. (Yes, I did bring extra cogs and changed them multiple times each day.)
Ben
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This is good, I went from worried about my knees after first seeing the thread title to confident my knees would get healthier by the end of the read.
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One point I didn't make in my last post: I cannot speak for riding without brakes. I have less than a mile of riding brakeless and that was on a velodrome. My knees do not like stopping or slowing the bike. I never stop without brakes and do limited slowing. I ride good tires and have zero desire to skid or even learn how to.
Ben
Ben