Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
Reload this Page >

Fixed-gear knee health

Notices
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear "I still feel that variable gears are only for people over forty-five. Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailer? We are getting soft...As for me, give me a fixed gear!"-- Henri Desgrange (31 January 1865 - 16 August 1940)

Fixed-gear knee health

Old 01-26-18, 12:27 AM
  #1  
NoGears_NoTears
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoGears_NoTears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Down Under
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Fixed-gear knee health

Hi,
Why do people constantly say that riding a fixed-gear bicycle without brakes (fixed-gear riding with brakes can be very benificial for knee health) is bad for your knees.
The majority of people who ride fixies do it for fun - countless skids and bunny-hops, most of the time without proper foot retention - not to mention alot of those riders are running gear ratios over 75 GI without brakes. Riding like that will cause problems, but if you run a low gear ratio, have a correctly fitted bike with proper foot retention, and avoid excessive skidding and hard backpedalling - then surely you wouldn't run into the knee trouble unless knee problems are common in your family.

Riding fixed does put more strain on your knees, but running also puts strain on your knees and many people have been running for decades, so why do so many people write fixed-gear off as being bad for your joint health?
Cheers
NoGears_NoTears is offline  
Old 01-26-18, 12:39 AM
  #2  
FBinNY 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,545

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5703 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,345 Posts
Riding fixed doesn't haven to be hard on the knees, but many people make it so.

The 1st mistake is riding overly high gears, especially if there's any climbing. This is common, because gearing lower tends to cap the top end speed that some look for.

There's also significant high stresses involved in reversing torque to stop or resist when descending. All of this can be managed if folks use some common sense, and I, for one, rode fixed for decades, including very hilly terrain, without any long term damage.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 01-26-18, 02:05 AM
  #3  
NoGears_NoTears
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoGears_NoTears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Down Under
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by FBinNY
Riding fixed doesn't haven to be hard on the knees, but many people make it so.

The 1st mistake is riding overly high gears, especially if there's any climbing. This is common, because gearing lower tends to cap the top end speed that some look for.

There's also significant high stresses involved in reversing torque to stop or resist when descending. All of this can be managed if folks use some common sense, and I, for one, rode fixed for decades, including very hilly terrain, without any long term damage.
It's good to hear that you enjoyed many years riding fixed.
Do you still ever ride fixed?
Thanks
NoGears_NoTears is offline  
Old 01-26-18, 03:51 AM
  #4  
josh23
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 62
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 34 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
From a rather uninformed novice, my knees feel subjectively healthier since I started riding fixed. I don't skid or back pedal hard, but I do back pedal lightly to control and regulate my speed on gentle slopes or in the run up to a full stop. After an initial increase in pain for the first week, my long-standing (2 years +) knee pain has actually decreased. I think this kind of eccentric work is quite beneficial for you.
josh23 is offline  
Old 01-26-18, 07:52 AM
  #5  
Bandera
~>~
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: TX Hill Country
Posts: 5,932
Mentioned: 87 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1112 Post(s)
Liked 180 Times in 119 Posts
Echoing @FBinNY's experience riding FG on the road need not be harmful to the knees over decades of riding if done "properly".
The basics still apply from the old school club riding days when winter base miles were done on FG to build into the big loads of the coming racing season.
Some key elements in long term FG road riding:

Common Sense
Bike Fit
Restricted Gearing
Brake(s) Fitted
Foot Retention
Terrain Selection
Technique
Seat Time
Common Sense

I still ride a FG for distance in rolling terrain long after my 1st season with little change in set-up, technique or mind set.

-Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 01-26-18 at 08:05 AM.
Bandera is offline  
Old 01-26-18, 09:00 AM
  #6  
nightfly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,264
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 15 Times in 10 Posts
I'm not sure that anyone cares enough to actually have studied this with any sort of scientific accuracy. So basically it's heresay. "People say..."

But I've been riding fixed for 20 years or so and have done a couple of fixed centuries. The first 10 were mostly brakeless. As I got older I found the stress from climbing and resisting the pedals for slowing and stopping were causing other parts of my body to tense up and ache, not my knees so much. So I put a brake on and I do most of my longer training rides on a geared bike and use my fixed gear for commuting and fun shorter rides. There's some truth to the saying "geared bikes are for people over 40"
nightfly is offline  
Old 01-26-18, 10:26 AM
  #7  
ThermionicScott 
working on my sandal tan
 
ThermionicScott's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: CID
Posts: 22,625

Bikes: 1991 Bianchi Eros, 1964 Armstrong, 1988 Diamondback Ascent, 1988 Bianchi Premio, 1987 Bianchi Sport SX, 1980s Raleigh mixte (hers), All-City Space Horse (hers)

Mentioned: 98 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3868 Post(s)
Liked 2,560 Times in 1,574 Posts
I liked the mention of running and feel like there are lots of parallels. Your feet are always in motion (no coasting down hills when running a cross-country course!), and there are right and wrong ways to do it if you want to continue it into old age.
__________________
Originally Posted by chandltp
There's no such thing as too far.. just lack of time
Originally Posted by noglider
People in this forum are not typical.
RUSA #7498
ThermionicScott is offline  
Old 01-27-18, 12:25 PM
  #8  
hairnet
Fresh Garbage
 
hairnet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 13,198

Bikes: N+1

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 352 Post(s)
Liked 25 Times in 17 Posts
Originally Posted by josh23
From a rather uninformed novice, my knees feel subjectively healthier since I started riding fixed. I don't skid or back pedal hard, but I do back pedal lightly to control and regulate my speed on gentle slopes or in the run up to a full stop. After an initial increase in pain for the first week, my long-standing (2 years +) knee pain has actually decreased. I think this kind of eccentric work is quite beneficial for you.
This has been my experience as well. I have ****ty knees and sometimes riding geared bikes will make my pain worse. When I used to ride fixed almost exclusively my knees felt great.
hairnet is offline  
Old 01-27-18, 03:36 PM
  #9  
REDMASTA
Senior Member
 
REDMASTA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Traveling through time, will return last week.
Posts: 730

Bikes: Bare Rum Sword Knuckle Runner

Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 122 Times in 64 Posts
If you live in a flat area I don't really see how riding fixed is that hard on your legs. Living in a hilly area I've learned to avoid mashing too big a gear and hard back pedaling. Skidding is mostly technique and doesn't hurt my knees/legs. I used to always try and back pedal because I didn't want to wear out my tires but to hell with them, they're cheaper than damaging my joints.
REDMASTA is offline  
Old 01-30-18, 04:35 AM
  #10  
NoGears_NoTears
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoGears_NoTears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Down Under
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
I liked the mention of running and feel like there are lots of parallels. Your feet are always in motion (no coasting down hills when running a cross-country course!), and there are right and wrong ways to do it if you want to continue it into old age.
That being said, our bodies have evolved over millions of years to run - our bodies are designed to run, not to resist pedals hence why having a correct set up is so important.
Having an incorrectly fitted bike would be equivalent to running on extremely uneven terrain with holes and bumps to put undue stress on our joints.
Thanks for your response
NoGears_NoTears is offline  
Old 01-30-18, 04:36 AM
  #11  
NoGears_NoTears
Junior Member
Thread Starter
 
NoGears_NoTears's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Down Under
Posts: 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by REDMASTA
I used to always try and back pedal because I didn't want to wear out my tires but to hell with them, they're cheaper than damaging my joints.
Haha very true
NoGears_NoTears is offline  
Old 01-30-18, 03:28 PM
  #12  
sleepy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Williamsburg, Tennesse.
Posts: 1,093

Bikes: All have flats.

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
Living around Hilly areas, I would get some pain knee pain. I also like to skid a lot, and apply torque when going downhill. I've since used a front brake, and toned down on skidding, and have had not knee pain since then. YMMV.
sleepy is offline  
Old 02-08-18, 06:07 PM
  #13  
takenreasy
Full Member
 
takenreasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 435

Bikes: ’83 Bianchi Special ’96 Specialized Stump Jumper Comp ’09 Gary Fisher Paragon ’09 Surly Cross Check ’11 Surly Long Haul Trucker

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 71 Post(s)
Liked 76 Times in 50 Posts
I've found with common sense gearing the knees suffer no more than if on a geared bike.
takenreasy is offline  
Old 02-12-18, 03:51 PM
  #14  
79pmooney
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4745 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times in 2,510 Posts
I've been riding fix gear for 42 years. Had CP (chrondomalcia patellae for 40; caused by a combination of probably being prone to it but not knowing, increasing my level of training and speed very fast (coming from rock bottom after a major head injury to fast enough for an early season race in a few weeks), not stretching my hamstrings, riding with cold knees and switching from 168 cranks to 175 and taking that long cranked bike (my race bike) for a March 100 mile training ride first time on it. In other words, breaking just about every CP rule there is.

I've kept riding fixed. If I do the CP regime and keep my rule-breaking down to a minimum, I can do just about anything I want on the fix gear. Yesterday I rode the "Worst Day of the Year" ride fixed. 2000' of climbing. Twice up to Skyline Blvd west of Portland. 2nd climb had us doing 476' in 1.18 miles (7.6% ave with an 11% max. I did it on a 42-17. Hard, yes. I had to pace myself. Glad I had a really good fitting and working bike and shoes/cleats because I was pulling/pushing hard. That evening, I could feel my knees a little. Yes I pushed it. Took one aspirin last night. I feel them still now. but I will probably ride fixed in town tonight easy. (I doubt the rest of my body is up to doing more!)

I've been doing rides like this sporadically the entire time I've been riding fixed. 100,000 miles. (I used to ride the same gear up Juaquim Miller over Oakland. Rode Mt Diablo in that gear also. Cycle Oregon 4 times. (Yes, I did bring extra cogs and changed them multiple times each day.)

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Old 02-13-18, 02:00 PM
  #15  
NikBikes
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Posts: 11
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
This is good, I went from worried about my knees after first seeing the thread title to confident my knees would get healthier by the end of the read.
NikBikes is offline  
Old 02-13-18, 02:14 PM
  #16  
79pmooney
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,830

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 128 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4745 Post(s)
Liked 3,861 Times in 2,510 Posts
One point I didn't make in my last post: I cannot speak for riding without brakes. I have less than a mile of riding brakeless and that was on a velodrome. My knees do not like stopping or slowing the bike. I never stop without brakes and do limited slowing. I ride good tires and have zero desire to skid or even learn how to.

Ben
79pmooney is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
double_stuf
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
12
10-12-17 03:57 PM
samzy
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
30
02-10-14 09:54 AM
iarefred
Training & Nutrition
5
04-14-11 09:48 PM
XianRL
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
10
03-06-11 04:18 AM
Syscrush
Singlespeed & Fixed Gear
56
05-17-10 05:25 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.