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Max Tire Pressure Label (700 x 32)

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Max Tire Pressure Label (700 x 32)

Old 12-30-19, 10:06 PM
  #76  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
80-95psi is a wide range for a recommended inflation. Does is state whether this is with or without tubes?

I'm not gonna try to explain their train of thought, but I'm sure if you read the article, it will explain everything you need to know.
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Au contraire.

Most everyone here, with experience riding 32mm modern road racing/training tires(on wider hoops), is giving a similar recommendation.
If you are going to quote me do it right. I said

"Informed opinion? Thats rich! :-)

You and NS are the ones making unusual claims, regurgitating the HED blurb and then ask others to do the homework to back it up."


And yes you did do that, in #67 , but now YOU are shifting the goal posts. That wont win you any medals. Its too obvious.
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Old 12-30-19, 10:16 PM
  #77  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
The claims are unusual to you because you donít know much about this topic.

Thereís no homework needed here. All the understanding that is needed is to know that larger volume requires less pressure to maintain the same ďhardnessĒ. You should be able to see that by pumping your 23ís up to 120 psi and comparing them to a MTB tire pumped up to 45 psi. Feels about the same. A wider rim creates more volume, hence, less pressure.
You are the one claiming 65-80 psi is right for a 23 mm. That IS an unusual claim even if a wider rim make for a little more volume.
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Old 12-30-19, 10:23 PM
  #78  
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You're arguing against people who know what they're talking about. This isn't going to end well...
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Old 12-30-19, 10:29 PM
  #79  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest View Post
You're arguing against people who know what they're talking about. This isn't going to end well...
If they know what they are talking about, they should be able to reply with something better than snide remarks and claims that its all self evident.

Btw, Im all ears.
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Old 12-30-19, 10:45 PM
  #80  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
You are the one claiming 65-80 psi is right for a 23 mm. That IS an unusual claim even if a wider rim make for a little more volume.
Run your tires however you like. Feel free to ignore the manufacturers recommended pressures. These are not MY claims. That chart is from HED Wheels. Iíll go out on a limb and say that they know significantly more about what works on THEIR products than you do...especially since you seem to have literally no experience whatsoever with what we are talking about.
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Old 12-30-19, 11:01 PM
  #81  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
If they know what they are talking about, they should be able to reply with something better than snide remarks and claims that its all self evident.

Btw, Im all ears.
if youíre all ears, read up on Boyleís Law. Itís been around since 1662, so itís not just a select few of us that ďbuy intoĒ this.

As Iíve said before (numerous times now), a wider rim creates more volume. More volume requires less pressure. Boyleís law.

A 23c road tire on a wide rim will have 33% more volume than on a narrow rim (if not more). Iíve done this in a calculator to remove all doubt. If this doesnít help, Iím not sure itís worth discussing further.


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Old 12-30-19, 11:15 PM
  #82  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Run your tires however you like. Feel free to ignore the manufacturers recommended pressures. These are not MY claims. That chart is from HED Wheels. Iíll go out on a limb and say that they know significantly more about what works on THEIR products than you do...especially since you seem to have literally no experience whatsoever with what we are talking about.
There is nothing magic about running lower than normal pressure. I, and everyone else, can do that as well on a 17c rim and get away with it on every road around where i live.That doesnt prove anything other than its possible.

You were the one posting the chart as gospel in relation to a not HED rim with a not HED tyre. Therefore you are the one making the clam. There is an inherent claim in your posts, that doing so is fundamentally different because you run a rim that is a few mm wider and that doing so is "better". Better how?

You cant keep answering these questions with claims that it is all self evident and "you have no experience". Thats not answer. Its just a cop out and a distraction.
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Old 12-30-19, 11:20 PM
  #83  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
There is nothing magic about running lower than normal pressure. I, and everyone else, can do that as well on a 17c rim and get away with it on every road around where i live.That doesnt prove anything other than its possible.

You were the one posting the chart as gospel in relation to a not HED rim with a not HED tyre. Therefore you are the one making the clam. There is an inherent claim in your posts, that doing so is fundamentally different because you run a rim that is a few mm wider and that doing so is "better". Better how?

You cant keep answering these questions with claims that it is all self evident and "you have no experience". Thats not answer. Its just a cop out and a distraction.
See above.
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Old 12-30-19, 11:56 PM
  #84  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
There is nothing magic about running lower than normal pressure. I, and everyone else, can do that as well on a 17c rim and get away with it on every road around where i live.That doesnt prove anything other than its possible.

You were the one posting the chart as gospel in relation to a not HED rim with a not HED tyre. Therefore you are the one making the clam. There is an inherent claim in your posts, that doing so is fundamentally different because you run a rim that is a few mm wider and that doing so is "better". Better how?

You cant keep answering these questions with claims that it is all self evident and "you have no experience". Thats not answer. Its just a cop out and a distraction.

You can quote everything written about it, but without any personal experience, you have nothing to add here..

Last edited by noodle soup; 12-31-19 at 12:30 AM.
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Old 12-31-19, 12:14 AM
  #85  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
I summarized.. they actually break the 80-95 down (eg. 3-6 psi increments) more than HED based on weight.. eg. 140-150lbs, 150-160, etc.. HED only has 140-180 as a single category.
Enve states these as starting pressures based on Tubeless. Even so, though we know that eg. 70psi TL will be better than 70psi tubed, but do we know that recommended 72psi TL is better than 80 or 85psi TL? If so, in what way is it better (comfort only, speed only, comfort and speed)?
stop reading articles about what is " proper inflation", and go see what actually works.
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Old 12-31-19, 12:17 AM
  #86  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
See above.
I did. I have a hard time believing in your 33% claim. Where did that come from?

"So, how to increase the air volume? Here are few measurements:
Width Width change Air volume difference (mL) Difference 17mm rim Tyre 23–>25 144,25 15,0% 25mm tyre Rim 17 –> 19 24,04 2,2%
A 2mm increase of the tyre width alone has a much higher impact (+15%) than a 2mm increase of the rim width alone (+2.2%).
And of course, the combination leads to both air volume increases, which is even better."


THE RIGHT TYRE WIDTH ON THE RIGHT RIM WIDTH - Engineerstalk : Engineerstalk

I cant see what Boyles law is supposed to prove. It only says if you inflate the bigger tyre/rim combination, with the same amount of gas, the pressure will be lower, if temperature is kept the same. Doh!

However that is not proof 72psi is adequate for a 23mm tyre. At best its an indication that IF 72psi is right for a 23mm then 62psi is also right for a 28mm.

Btw, no one disputed a bigger volume tyre "requires" less pressure, only the numbers in the chart are unusually low. Stop acting like we are all imbeciles.
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Old 12-31-19, 12:41 AM
  #87  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Btw, no one disputed a bigger volume tyre "requires" less pressure, only the numbers in the chart are unusually low. Stop acting like we are all imbeciles.
No one is saying you are an imbecile. Uninformed, maybe.
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Old 12-31-19, 01:21 AM
  #88  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Moving the goalposts much?
Gosh, a ​​​​​​non sequitur from the soup.
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Old 12-31-19, 09:20 AM
  #89  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Run your tires however you like. Feel free to ignore the manufacturers recommended pressures. These are not MY claims. That chart is from HED Wheels. Iíll go out on a limb and say that they know significantly more about what works on THEIR products than you do...especially since you seem to have literally no experience whatsoever with what we are talking about.
I think their recommended pressures are for safety with how they build their rims and not so much for speed. This not Hed, but Hunt -- they say below info which does not look the same as tire inflator charts, but look like they worry about safety. This is for 18mm rim.
  • Maximum tire pressure for this rim is 120psi when used with an inner tube and 100psi when running the wheel set-up tubeless. Please do not exceed the maximum pressure stated on your tire.
  • Maximum tire pressures for other tire sizes 30mm do not exceed 70psi, 33mm do not exceed 50psi, 35-45mm do not exceed 40psi, 46mm+ do not exceed 35psi.
  • Please do not exceed the maximum pressure stated on your tire.
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Old 12-31-19, 09:36 AM
  #90  
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Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
I did. I have a hard time believing in your 33% claim. Where did that come from?
Math. A 23mm tire will "open up" to 26mm on a wide rim. Larger diameter tire plus larger rim chamber = significantly more volume than you would think. If we treat the tire like a perfect cylinder and forget the added volume of the rim chamber (which adds to the percentage), the tire alone sees a 28% increase in volume.

23mm tire in a perfect cylinder: (2097mm ((pi)((11.5)^2))) 871,252 ml

26mm now because of the wide rim: (2110mm ((pi)((13)^2))) = 1,120,261 ml

Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
*quoting Mavic, as if they are in any way still relevant in the cycling world*
Lol.

Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
I cant see what Boyles law is supposed to prove. It only says if you inflate the bigger tyre/rim combination, with the same amount of gas, the pressure will be lower, if temperature is kept the same. Doh!
Doh, indeed. You're not understanding the law, nor the application in this thread...again.

Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
However that is not proof 72psi is adequate for a 23mm tyre. At best its an indication that IF 72psi is right for a 23mm then 62psi is also right for a 28mm.
And on a wide rim with more V O L U M E that a narrow rim, it is unequivocal, indisputable, and absolute proof. But again, you seem to be missing that point completely....still.

Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Btw, no one disputed a bigger volume tyre "requires" less pressure,
Oh, so now you agree that a tire with a bigger volume due to having a wider rim needs less pressure. Great. Moving on.

Originally Posted by Racing Dan View Post
Stop acting like we are all imbeciles.
You remind me of my ex. She would always put words and feelings in my mouth as well. Are you my ex?

...or are you just an elaborate troll, and I keep taking the bait?

Methinks your name is a misnomer.
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Old 12-31-19, 10:29 AM
  #91  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Math. A 23mm tire will "open up" to 26mm on a wide rim. Larger diameter tire plus larger rim chamber = significantly more volume than you would think. If we treat the tire like a perfect cylinder and forget the added volume of the rim chamber (which adds to the percentage), the tire alone sees a 28% increase in volume.

23mm tire in a perfect cylinder: (2097mm ((pi)((11.5)^2))) 871,252 ml

26mm now because of the wide rim: (2110mm ((pi)((13)^2))) = 1,120,261 ml

And on a wide rim with more V O L U M E that a narrow rim, it is unequivocal, indisputable, and absolute proof. But again, you seem to be missing that point completely....still.

.
The disconnect in this conversation is that while everyone agrees that wider tires need less PSI, some wheel makers seem to go way too far in their reduction. IOW, 72psi wouldn't be correct for a 26mm tire either.

Here's Schwalbe's recommended inflation chart. Who's right and who's wrong and what supports this?
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Old 12-31-19, 10:33 AM
  #92  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
The disconnect in this conversation is that while everyone agrees that wider tires need less PSI, some wheel makers seem to go way too far in their reduction. IOW, 72psi wouldn't be correct for a 26mm tire either.

Here's Schwalbe's recommended inflation chart. Who's right and who's wrong and what supports this?
Are these tires being run on wide rims? If not, this chart is not relevant to this discussion.
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Old 12-31-19, 10:34 AM
  #93  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
The disconnect in this conversation is that while everyone agrees that wider tires need less PSI, some wheel makers seem to go way too far in their reduction. IOW, 72psi wouldn't be correct for a 26mm tire either.

Here's Schwalbe's recommended inflation chart. Who's right and who's wrong and what supports this?
What width rim is used for that chart? Looks about right if they are using something narrow like an Open Pro(14mm internal width), but way off if using something with a 21-23mm internal width
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Old 12-31-19, 10:45 AM
  #94  
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Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
What width rim is used for that chart? Looks about right if they are using something narrow like an Open Pro(14mm internal width), but way off if using something with a 21-23mm internal width
Does rim width matter if using measured rather than labeled tire width?
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Old 12-31-19, 10:46 AM
  #95  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene View Post
This chart is a little whacked. I just looked at the sidewall of a 30mm Schwalbe G-One Speed, and it clearly says 50-80 PSI is recommended inflation
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Old 12-31-19, 10:52 AM
  #96  
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Does rim width matter if using measured rather than labeled tire width?
"Matter" how? The rim width definitely changes the handling traits of a wheel, even with identical actual width tires, and a narrow width hoop will require higher inflation.
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Old 12-31-19, 10:53 AM
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Given Schwalbe's recommendation od 100 psi for a 25mm tire provided by Sy Reene , the following can be mathematically provided for a wider rim.

My 25mm GP5k's measure out to nearly 30mm on my HED Plus rims, so I used 30mm as the final diameter for simplicity.

25mm cylinder volume: 1033289 ml

30mm cylinder volume: 1516918 ml

Applying Boyle's Law, the final pressure can be given by P1V1 = P2V2, or this fun screenshot I took for conveniences sake:



If your 25mm Schwalbe opened up to 30mm on a wide rim, your final pressure would be 68.12 psi for a comparable ride quality.
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Old 12-31-19, 10:54 AM
  #98  
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Old 12-31-19, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by asgelle View Post
Does rim width matter if using measured rather than labeled tire width?
If the tire is measured to be 25mm on a wider rim, I would personally use the values for a 25mm tire and see how it rode. Wider rims tend to change the overall shape of the tire and how they "act" (for the better, in my opinion), so it's up to the user at that point. I found a slightly higher pressure to corner better at speed, so I'm 1-3 psi higher than recommended.
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Old 12-31-19, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Given Schwalbe's recommendation od 100 psi for a 25mm tire provided by Sy Reene , the following can be mathematically provided for a wider rim.

My 25mm GP5k's measure out to nearly 30mm on my HED Plus rims, so I used 30mm as the final diameter for simplicity.

25mm cylinder volume: 1033289 ml

30mm cylinder volume: 1516918 ml

Applying Boyle's Law, the final pressure can be given by P1V1 = P2V2, or this fun screenshot I took for conveniences sake:



If your 25mm Schwalbe opened up to 30mm on a wide rim, your final pressure would be 68.12 psi for a comparable ride quality.
So for a 30mm tire, that actually measures 31.54mm on a 23mm inner width hoop? I weigh 185#
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