oldbikeguy62

Hi folks, I have recently acquired an old sunbeam bike. I was told it was a sports model from the BSA time of ownership.
It has a frame number S10850, a BSA free wheel, a full chain case and a Terry sprung seat. It looks similar to the Wayfarer but has side pull rather than centre pull brakes and no gears.
Can anyone date it from the frame number?
Does anyone have a BSA 3 speed hub? I am in Melbourne, Australia
Sorry there are no photos, I will post some when I get it back together.
Thanks

bluesteak 

I am interested in anything BSA, hoping to see photos.

1989Pre 

Sunbeams are coveted. I can't help on the serial number but Facebook group Vintage UK might be able to. I hope to see the completed bike when its ready.

oldbikeguy62

Shouldn't be too long. Just waiting on some bearings

Johno59

The S in the serial number places it in the 1940s at the earliest. John Marston sold the business to ICI before WW2 and the bicycles were essentially rebranded BSAs as they were made with BSA parts until the early 1950s wherein most bicycle marques went bust.

tiger1964 

Needs V-8.

oldbikeguy62

I have made some progress on the Sunbeam.
After having stripped and cleaned it I was pretty pleased with how it came up. The chrome is in pretty good condition though the paint is a hotch potch with I think very little original paint left. But i will leave that for now as it look presentable.
I cleaned out all the old grease and repacked the bearings. The bottom bracket feels good as do the wheels. The rear free wheel had a lot of grit in it so I pulled it apart also. Pretty simple and I left one shim (out of 4) out to take out a little play. The chain also was full of grit so got a really good clean (shaken in a plastic bottle with degreaser).
I managed to get the chainguard, swing arms, chain and rear wheel back on but I may have to take it off again as it is not very true and it seems to be unbalanced. The tyre and tube are also old though holds air and serviceable for gentle rides. When I tightened the wheel nuts it seized the wheel up and I noticed by backing it off it freed it up again so I added an additional washer between the cone lock nut and the drop out. Still can't quite tighten it enough so may have to go with another washer.
The forks seem pretty ordinary. The drop outs are uneven with one about 6mm lower than the other meaning that the wheel has to be lifted out by that much to get it aligned. It also has a bent tube which means I can't get the head bearings right - loose when straight ahead but tight when turning more than 90 degrees. I will take it to my local vintage bike repair shop tomorrow to see if anything can be done. The gooseneck seems to be a bit bent too so must have been in a bit of a crash.
So it seems like a crappy old bike so far, hopefully I can get it functioning properly and enjoy riding it.
These are some photos from the vendor. Oh, I am not allowed to post photos until I have made 10 posts!

oldbikeguy62

oldbikeguy62

I have had the forks straightened out as much as i can. It seems to have been in a head on collision as the forks stem was bent as is the handle bar stem. Haven't had a chance yet to put them back on but hopefully will be better than my first attempt.

Some bits polished up ready to be reinstalled

This Terry's seat is massive and very nice condition

The free wheel in bits


Before the chain case has been reinstalled

Chain case is a bit battered. Tried to get rid of a couple of dents but made them worse

markk900

I did not realize that on some bikes the chaincase was a stressed member of the frame. The only one I have has a regular chain stay on the drive side and the chaincase wraps around it.

Very cool bike and you are doing a thorough and excellent job on the cleanup.

bluesteak 

I have never seen anything like that chain case set up. Anyone else seen it before?

Kilroy1988 

What aspect of it are you referring to in particular? Chain cases were very common on English roadster bicycles from the late-19th century all the way up until the 1960s and were thereafter limited to rather "old fashioned" models. The current model of Pashley Sovereign still features a full chain case. The way this one works is a Sunbeam innovation that allows the rear wheel to be removed for changing the tire without having to completely disassemble the chain case, which is a really useful feature.

In the particular case of the Sunbeam, the cases were also made to be liquid-tight and filled with enough oil to constantly lubricate the chain during use, and this was known as the "oil bath" chain case. I think this particular model is a bit later than the heyday for that innovation because it was made after Sunbeam expanded their operations band the quality of their work went downhill to some extent after the company changed hands.

-Gregory

daka

Gregory, I think that @bluesteak may be referring to the fact that the chain case on this bike serves as the drive-side chainstay, becoming a stressed member of the frame. See photos in post #9. Is that common? I have little experience with this type of bike but I'm recalling that the chain case on a Raleigh Tourist, for example, was parallel to the drive side chainstay, not instead of it.

Rick_D

If you wish to start a forum fight, suggest filling the chain case with wax. :-)

Fascinating bike, here's wishing it gets back on the road!

Johno59

All Sunbeams are like that. It makes patching a rear wheel a bear.

Johno59

The chaincase has a flat much heavier metal insert to act as the chainstay on the drive side. The chaincase itself is made of tin and as such any repair (if using metal) must be soldered. I use fiber glass and patch the whole length from the outside. Because the soft tin originals are always dinged after you paint it black you can't see the repair. Soldering old oil-drenched tin is almost impossible to make driip proof and durable. Fiber glass is much easier and better all round.
The oil bath keeps the chains /bearing spotless.I have a 1903 Sunbeam with the original bolted together chain.
Some folks have rideable Sunbeams that are 30 years older than my oldest. I have six.

oldbikeguy62

I got the Sunbeam back together yesterday and after a little fettling am pretty pleased with it. The brakes were a bit tricky getting them slop free but not sticking and centred. The other issue I had was with the forks. I might have mentioned that the stem was quite bent. I took it to a nice man who works on classic bikes and he did $50 Audi worth of work on it straightening it out. This was quite successful and I only have a slight bit of play in the bearings in the straight ahead position. I decided not to install the rack and the lights just yet. I didn’t like the way the rack is so angled so it will need some new stays at the right length to get it right. Maybe I’ll just get a nice leather bag to hang from the saddle. The headlight cleaned up really nicely the Raleigh sports decided that she wanted it.

Looking classical

True elegance

Very comfy Terrys saddle

The famous chaincase

Brakes work ok now. Bit of a dent in the rim main issue. This wheel is unbalanced. When I had it on the stand it would rotate by itself to the same position. Don’t know what would be causing it. Took the tyre and tube off to see if there was a bunch of sand or something inside, but no. If I ever get a BSA hub I’ll attend to that then.

I didn’t have too much trouble getting the wheel back on. I had enough movement in the drop out to slide it forward to get the chain on the rear sprocket after getting it on the fro

I like the handle bars though the gooseneck is a bit bent. I’ll try to find a replacement.

Mudguards are pretty old looking

The chrome is pretty good

oldbikeguy62

Taking its place in the garage now.

merziac

Great work, fantastic job done.

Johno59

On a really smooth balanced wheel the weight of the valve stem can cause this to happen.

1989Pre 

You've got it into beautiful shape. Are you going to be able to ride it before stem replacement?

tiger1964 

OT, but in the foreground... Citroen SM?

oldbikeguy62

I think it will be ok. I rode it around the block a couple of times and it is safe. The bend in the stem/gooseneck is mainly towards the front so not that noticeable when riding. Initially I was a bit disappointed with the ride quality, but there is an inkling that her qualities are there to be revealed on further acquaintance.
Cheers
Tony

Johno59

Those old canvas/plastic spring seats are terrible to sit on- Terry, Brooks, ping-pong whatever- they were all bad. Put a nice leather seat on it.