Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Will my classic frame fit a Campi groupset?

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Will my classic frame fit a Campi groupset?

Old 05-21-20, 04:41 AM
  #1  
Cattmann
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2

Bikes: Specialized Allez Elite, Aluminium Alan Frame Single Speed, Fongers competition steel

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Will my classic frame fit a Campi groupset?

Hi all, this is my first post in a forum of any kind, so fongers crissed it works out!

I recently bought a Dutch made Fongers steel competition frame from a reputable dealer in Germany. The plan is to build it up from scratch. I would like to fit it with a Campi gruppo as I want quality and a nice aesthetic that will go well with the chrome of the bottom triangle and fork. I found a classic Chorus gruppo on Ebay that say it comes with a cartridge 'Bottom bracket English thread 1.37x24T, 68 mm'

As per the specs below, the bottom bracket of my new frame is British 68mm. My question is, would the above mentioned bottom bracket fit with my frame even though it is Italian made?

Here are the specs of my frame:
seat tube: 57.0 cm (Mitte-Oberkante / center-top)
seat tube 55.5 cm (Mitte-Mitte / center-center)
top tube: 55.0 cm (Mitte-Mitte / center-center)
head tube: 13.4 cm
fork shaft: 17.0 cm
front spacing: 100 mm
rear spacing: 120 mm
seat post: 27.2 mm
bottom bracket: BSA (68 mm)
tubeset: Ishiwata CrMo 022
dropouts: Shimano SF
weight: 2.677 kg


Also, the rear triangle is has 120mm spacing. I would like to cold set it to 130mm to accommodate a larger cassette. Is it possible to stretch it out this far?
Cattmann is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 06:26 AM
  #2  
JohnDThompson 
Old fart
 
JohnDThompson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Appleton WI
Posts: 24,935

Bikes: Several, mostly not name brands.

Mentioned: 153 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3571 Post(s)
Liked 3,367 Times in 1,916 Posts
Originally Posted by Cattmann
I found a classic Chorus gruppo on Ebay that say it comes with a cartridge 'Bottom bracket English thread 1.37x24T, 68 mm'

As per the specs below, the bottom bracket of my new frame is British 68mm. My question is, would the above mentioned bottom bracket fit with my frame even though it is Italian made?
An English-thread bottom bracket will fit into an English-thread shell regardless of where either of them were made.

Also, the rear triangle is has 120mm spacing. I would like to cold set it to 130mm to accommodate a larger cassette. Is it possible to stretch it out this far?
That's at the high end of re-spacing, but if you're careful it ought to work.
JohnDThompson is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 06:45 AM
  #3  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
Does your frame have a rear derailleur hanger?

What about cable stops for the shift cables (front and rear) and cable guides either above or under the bottom bracket?

If not, there are ways around that, but you may find several things about the build suboptimal.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 06:50 AM
  #4  
Kilroy1988 
Senior Member
 
Kilroy1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 2,275
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 608 Posts
Yes, you can definitely re-space the rear dropout. People here (myself included) do it all the time, whether it's 2 or 10mm differences. Some folks act like it's a big deal but it's not... You're moving each set of stays 5mm in one direction. Don't worry about making that happen, but of course be careful during the process to try to keep them even on both sides. Welcome aboard!

-Gregory
Kilroy1988 is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 07:21 AM
  #5  
davester
Senior Member
 
davester's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Berkeley CA
Posts: 2,531

Bikes: 1981 Ron Cooper, 1974 Cinelli Speciale Corsa, 2000 Gary Fisher Sugar 1, 1986 Miyata 710, 1982 Raleigh "International"

Mentioned: 97 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 926 Post(s)
Liked 1,281 Times in 482 Posts
I would add to Kilroy1988's post that when cold setting you should clamp the stays at the brake bridge to ensure that the bridge doesn't separate from the stay. Also, you will need to realign the dropouts to parallel so that clamping a wheel in doesn't put stress on the dropouts (which can crack the dropout or dropout brazing) .
davester is offline  
Likes For davester:
Old 05-21-20, 09:58 AM
  #6  
jdawginsc 
Edumacator
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Goose Creek, SC
Posts: 7,427

Bikes: '87 Crestdale, '87 Basso Gap, '92 Rossin Performance EL-OS, 1990 VanTuyl, 1980s Losa, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 1987 PX10, etc...

Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2385 Post(s)
Liked 2,930 Times in 1,861 Posts
Originally Posted by Cattmann
Also, the rear triangle is has 120mm spacing. I would like to cold set it to 130mm to accommodate a larger cassette. Is it possible to stretch it out this far?
It is, but you might want to look at two things (I just had to stretch a vintage Peugeot in two separate moves because the entire rear triangle was shifted and twisted)...

1. Are there any 126mm wheels/cassettes that might be a better bet...?
2. You may wish to stop at 126, and simply spread the rear when you plop the wheel in. More likely to stay parallel and ensures a snug fit.
__________________
1987 Crest Cannondale, 1987 Basso Gap, 1992 Rossin Performance EL, 1990ish Van Tuyl, 1985 Trek 670, 1982 AD SLE, 2003 Pinarello Surprise, 1990ish MBK Atlantique, 1987 Peugeot Competition, 1987 Nishiki Tri-A, 1981 Faggin, 1996 Cannondale M500, 1984 Mercian, 1982 AD SuperLeicht, 1985 Massi (model unknown), 1988 Daccordi Griffe , 1989 Fauxsin MTB, 1981 Ciocc Mockba, 1992 Bianchi Giro, 1977 Colnago Super












jdawginsc is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 10:17 AM
  #7  
branko_76 
Senior Member
 
branko_76's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Location: The Urban Shores Of Michigami
Posts: 1,745

Bikes: ........................................ .....Holdsworth "Special"..... .......Falcon "Special".......... .........Miyata 912........... ........................................

Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 701 Post(s)
Liked 667 Times in 417 Posts
Cattmann , If you're going to spread the seat/chain stays, you'll need to make sure you check the frame alignment before and after. You check it before in case the stays are already offset. You want the stays to be centered on the head-tube and seat-post. You also want to do it in a controlled manner to avoid over-bending and then having to reverse the bend. I made this simple jig that I attached to the floor so that the frame doesn't bounce around while setting the stays...







branko_76 is offline  
Likes For branko_76:
Old 05-21-20, 11:04 AM
  #8  
Kilroy1988 
Senior Member
 
Kilroy1988's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: Visalia, CA
Posts: 2,275
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 608 Posts
That right there is the right way to do it!
Kilroy1988 is offline  
Likes For Kilroy1988:
Old 05-21-20, 11:32 AM
  #9  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,003

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 277 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2182 Post(s)
Liked 4,525 Times in 1,743 Posts
Welcome, Cattmann ! Nice! I'm assuming you actually mean the Competition model, which would have been the second model in the line-up, right behind the Professional, and a sibling of the equivalent Batavus Competition. Originally it would have been equipped with Shimano 600 arabesque, I believe.
__________________
Are we having fun, or what ...



non-fixie is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 12:53 PM
  #10  
Cattmann
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: May 2020
Location: Berlin
Posts: 2

Bikes: Specialized Allez Elite, Aluminium Alan Frame Single Speed, Fongers competition steel

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Originally Posted by CliffordK
Does your frame have a rear derailleur hanger?


What about cable stops for the shift cables (front and rear) and cable guides either above or under the bottom bracket?


If not, there are ways around that, but you may find several things about the build suboptimal.

Wow! Thanks for all the help, everyone who posted a reply. I definitely wasn't expecting so much, so soon. I feel very welcome.


It is indeed the competition model. There is a rear deraileur hanger - shimano SF it says on it. Is it possible to hang a campi deralieur on a shimano hanger?


There are guides for the shift cables but no cable stops (I assume this is where the down tube shifters would normally be). There is something you can attach round the frame to replace this though, right?


Good advice about the cold setting guys. I will take that all into account, especially clamping the brake bridge and stopping at 126mm.


I'm also concerned about the caliper reach. Would campi brakes from the 90 reach the rims? Is there a way I can tell this without putting a wheel and a brake on and seeing if it works?
Cattmann is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 01:24 PM
  #11  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
The classic French derailleur hangers are the oddballs. At some point Campagnolo was using 10mmX26TPI while everyone else was using 10mmX1mm, but they are close enough not to be a problem (snug fit). I'm not sure when that was changed. Anyway, you should be fine with the derailleur hanger design and threads.

You should be able to calculate your brake reach by measuring from the dropouts to the brake mounting bolt, or perhaps if you used a string cord between the dropouts, add 5mm for the axle radius.

Your 700c wheels will have a BSD diameter of about 622, or radius of about 311mm (to the bead seat, lowest part of your brake shoes, a couple mm more to the middle of the shoes).

27" wheels will have a BSD of 630mm, or radius of 315mm (plus a few mm to the middle of the shoe).

I'm not sure where you find the specs on vintage brake calipers.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 04:32 PM
  #12  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,003

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 277 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2182 Post(s)
Liked 4,525 Times in 1,743 Posts
The Chorus monoplaner brakes have a reach of 40-51mm, according to Velobase, i.e. pretty short.
__________________
Are we having fun, or what ...



non-fixie is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 04:37 PM
  #13  
non-fixie 
Shifting is fun!
 
non-fixie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: South Holland, NL
Posts: 11,003

Bikes: Yes, please.

Mentioned: 277 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2182 Post(s)
Liked 4,525 Times in 1,743 Posts
BTW, would this be the frame?

__________________
Are we having fun, or what ...



non-fixie is offline  
Old 05-21-20, 04:48 PM
  #14  
noobinsf 
Senior Member
 
noobinsf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 3,291

Bikes: '82 Univega Competizione, '72 Motobecane Grand Record, '83 Mercian KOM Touring, '85 Univega Alpina Uno, '76 Eisentraut Limited

Mentioned: 57 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1088 Post(s)
Liked 1,204 Times in 700 Posts
FWIW, I spaced my Motobecane from 120 to 128, mimicking the intermediate spacing found on production frames of the late 80's, early 90's. 126mm and 130mm wheelsets each fit easily.
noobinsf is offline  
Likes For noobinsf:
Old 05-21-20, 04:51 PM
  #15  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 27,600
Mentioned: 217 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 4,489 Times in 3,338 Posts
Originally Posted by non-fixie
BTW, would this be the frame?



@Cattmann's Album:

https://www.bikeforums.net/g/user/518686
https://www.bikeforums.net/g/album/17905428

CliffordK is offline  
Likes For CliffordK:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.