Reed19

Thanks to all that helped with this. Since my last post I was fortunate enough to make contact with Bryant Bainbridge, Specialized Director R&D. Bryant asked me for specific pics of the frame and fork set and while we all can identify the 3rensho trademark build details he confirmed via the craftsmanship and date range of the decals that the bike is a late '82 early '83 Yoshi Kono build. In BB's words a very rare find, especially with the original specialized channel seal headset in good condition. Two posts up the decal changes are cited by another poster who echoed what BB said. There was a running decal change in 82/83 and my decals are in the latter part of that change. The earliest Allezs had a totally different font as seen in adds submitted by other posts early in ths thread. Also, the move to Campy DO in '84 eliminated that year. On a more personal note I actually found the guy who sold me the bike and BB both knew him and had recenty had contact with him via the bicycle community. All in all and pretty cool experience and as much fun as I have had in some time.

Thanks again and let's start a vintage Allez thread!

Reed

Reed19

Did I ever post a pic of the almost finished bike? All original spec with the exception of the Model 5 bars, knock-off hoods and saddle. All 1984 date matched Super Record and NOS Mavic GP-4 rims built to Record hubs.

Happy New Year!

thirdgenbird

i cant see the pics, but the description alone have me very jealous

Reed19

thirdgenbird

wow, i LOVE it. get an elite cussi inox water bottle cage or two to finish it off.

vettefrc2000

Did you ever ride it? I am still trying to figure out how you bought a bike in 1978 that was built in 1984?

Reed19

The easy answer is that I was mistaken in the year I bought it. Senior moment I guess. With the help of C&V and a couple of phone calls it became obvious that I bought it in or around 1983 from a shop in Los Gatos, CA called Velomeister.

Nice bike. Really nimble cornering. My first time on tubulars (original build was clinchers) and they are nothing but nice.

Any advice on how to change the thread title?

R

JML

Welcome to the 3Rensho club!

mudboy

Beautiful, but it needs tan sidewall tires.

thirdgenbird

He probably has the same issue I do. No one makes a good mid priced tan tubular. Its either cheap trainers or $100 veloflex tires.

Reed19

...or it's his first tubular glue-up and he doesn't want to blow it with a nice tire.

Agreed on the side wall. Better stuff later.

R

crumbling

Hi
I see on the BB photo the numbers 3 58, could this be a date using the Japanese Showa Calendar which would be March year Showa 58 that equals 1983, March 1983. Can you tell me what is stamped into the steerer tube that will be the tube manufacturer name, and numbers that could be 3.8.
Search Showa on the web and a comparative chart to the Julian calendar will show
crumbling

merziac

Hi crumbling, welcome aboard/back/whatever.

So no worries, but 9 year old zombie thread here.

58 on the BB is the frame size, well known on these.

900ss

Similar to or the same as the 56 on my '87 Team Allez?

crumbling

Hi
Can you please check the steerer tube if you can. I have a Schwinn frame that has this on the tube

This what it looks like but could be Tange

crumbling

I do understand what you have said but I am trying to establish the calendar Ishiwata used and as you have acofirmed date of 1983 for your frame it will help. If it is too much trouble dont worry,
Kind Regards
crumbling

crumbling

900ss
Good Evening (well at least 1030pm 05/18/2020)
As merziac said this is a zombie post from the past, I am writing from the future in New Zealand
I am ok to accept the 56 is the frame size ie 560mm=22.8". Just confirm it is that size and can you check the steerer tube to see what it is and it is refered to as Ishiwata etc, as you say yours is a 1987 Team Allez and it is Ishiwata tubing
Kind Regards
Crumbling

T-Mar

Ishiwata manufactured forks used a two character alpha-numeric date code on the steering column that is based on the Gregorian calendar. The numeral indicates the last character of the calendar year. The letter indicates the month (A = January, B = February, etc). Please note that this applies only to forks manufactured by Ishiwata. Forks manufactured by a bicycle company will have a different format or no stamps at all.

Most Japanese bicycle and component manufacturers using an open format date code adopted the Gregorian calendar when they moved outside their domestic market. For most, that occurred in the early 1970s, with the bicycle boom. The only major Japanese companies that were still using the Japanese Imperial Calendar during the boom were Fuji and Sugino. I'm not aware of any Japanese companies still using the Japanese Imperial Calendar in the 1980s. Certainly, the large volume manufacturers weren't.

crumbling

T-Mar

I stand to be corrected on using the term Julian calendar as it was replaced by the term Gregorian calendar but both are essentially the same with the Gregorian being the true current calendar name.

I know about your date version of the Ishiwata tubing but I also know about the Showa calendar from searching information about one of my cars, a 1966 Skyline GT and the year it was referred to was S40.1 in a Japanese book about the cars. This I could not understand until I discovered the Showa calendar. It was natural for it to be as the car is called a Prince Skyline GTB (before Prince amalgamated with Nissan but within the Nissan Factory the Skyline GT are refered to as Prince). The Prince name was in honour of Prince Hirohito, the Showa Emperor. I have seen the reflection of that honour on Prince Hirohito during a visit to Japan a few years back with other car enthusiasts. I have seen the Japanese attitude to their traditions and their desire to keeping them alive, which I admire.

This I feel extends into their manufacturing companies and the JIS. My experience is the Japanese hold their manufacturing in high esteem.

As result I consider the dating of Ishiwata could be Showa and apart from your comments and those who follow you and I see no other evidence for it not to be, just it is not. Any history of Ishiwata is difficult to find. I look for hard evidence as with my Schwinn MTB frame of the early 80s` that is the other side of my quest and that again is lost in history and what evidence that exists is ignored and not understood.

To you I ask where is there written proof of Ishiwata`s date code from history, not a photo of it, I have a clearer version of my own. The JIS symbol on my steerer tube dates from 1949 to 2007 but this gives no defining date for the stamping and Ishiwata ceased trading before 2007

The date difference from the Showa to the Gregorian calendar`s is small and normally not be seen for the 5 years it is.

I take it is very possible for the 3 58 or 56 stamped onto the BB of these two Allez is a reference to the frame size but the numbers stamped onto the steerer tube could probably clarify, unless the tubing is Tange.

I have seen SR, Sakae Ringo and Sakae, and Sugino used the Showa date code with Sugino at least until 1980 from the Vintage Trek site,

Regards

Crumbling

Pugs2xLove

Mine is not a classic but I just bought a 2013 Specialized Allez today. There are some scuff marks and scratches but it has newer tires and chain. I like it though the drop bars will take some time to get used to since I'm a flat bar guy.