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How long are we going to continue to play like we can stop this?

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How long are we going to continue to play like we can stop this?

Old 07-04-20, 07:29 PM
  #51  
3alarmer
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By some odd coincidence, this just popped up in my news feed...

.
...I apologize in advance for the political nature of it, but it's difficult at this point to separate out the political from what's happening.

'We need to live with it': White House readies new message for the nation on coronavirus


So roughly the pandemic equivalent of declaring bankruptcy when your Atlantic City casino fails to turn a profit. It's going to disappear.
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Old 07-04-20, 08:30 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
With that said, I typically do not go to the GP unless the situation is dire. My life has been saved at least twice by modern medicine. As to the cancer thing...it really gets onto a whole other subject. My views on treating cancer are very much in line with what KIND of cancer it is, and how treatable/survivable it is. Much like many other things, I cannot see leaving a family with a huge debt over an inevitability.
**** like this just makes me more and more grateful for universal healthcare. It leads to a healthier population overall because people are not afraid of incurring debt, and will go to the doctor early and often. Things get caught earlier and don't necessarily progress to dire situations. Someday, with luck, the U.S. will figure this out.
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Old 07-04-20, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Rider_1 View Post
**** like this just makes me more and more grateful for universal healthcare. It leads to a healthier population overall because people are not afraid of incurring debt, and will go to the doctor early and often. Things get caught earlier and don't necessarily progress to dire situations. Someday, with luck, the U.S. will figure this out.
I am 55. If we had universal coverage in the USA I might retire. Thatís saying a lot considering I have low cost, low deductible, low yearly out of pocket maximum per year.
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Old 07-04-20, 08:37 PM
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It can be stopped. We can see that pretty much every country in the developed world has done it. But we can't stop it. Apart from questions of leadership (not part of this subforum), we seem to lack the ability as a nation to act for the collective good. It's just not in us.

So until there is a vaccine, we'll be dealing with it. Arizona, Texas, Florida today, George, the Carolinas, Tennessee on their way, and then where?
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Old 07-04-20, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I am 55. If we had universal coverage in the USA I might retire. Thatís saying a lot considering I have low cost, low deductible, low yearly out of pocket maximum per year.
I'm glad to hear that you have coverage. I imagine that the pandemic is going to financially crush many Americans.
Stay safe.
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Old 07-04-20, 09:29 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by MinnMan View Post
It can be stopped. We can see that pretty much every country in the developed world has done it. But we can't stop it. Apart from questions of leadership (not part of this subforum), we seem to lack the ability as a nation to act for the collective good. It's just not in us.

...
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Old 07-04-20, 09:35 PM
  #57  
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.
...Frank Stokes also recorded "Mr. Crump don't like it, ain't gonna have it here." Not making this up.
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Old 07-04-20, 09:42 PM
  #58  
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Here is another reason why it ain't going anywhere anytime soon (and why I won't eat an pistachios any more):

Dozens of pistachio plant workers infected with COVID-19


ďI started feeling sick like three days before (the diagnosis) and I asked my supervisor to let me go home and he said there was a lot of work and not enough employees,Ē Ramirez said. ďThen I made an appointment to go to the doctor, asked permission again, but by the time I was let off work, the clinic was closed.Ē

Ramirez, 54, has worked at the Primex Farms plant, located in Wasco in the San Joaquin Valley, for more than 12 years. The company, which processes more than 60 million pounds a year of nuts, has about 400 year-round packing plant workers, many of whom earn minimum wage.

Despite dozens of infections like Ramirezís, the Primex plant did not shut down until last week, on June 26. That was ten days after Ramirez said he tested positive with the coronavirus. And 16 days after the first case of COVID-19 was confirmed at Primex.

The plant reopened with limited operations on Wednesday after voluntarily shutting down for five days, employees said. But as they return to work, the workers said they are still worried and do not feel safe.

As of Wednesday, 78 workers at the Primex plant ó about one-fifth of its year-round staff ó have been infected with COVID-19, along with 34 family members, including children, according to the labor union United Farm Workers. The youngest is just nine months old.
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Old 07-04-20, 09:52 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
And Texas with our lieutenant governor telling us to sacrifice the elderly lives and yourself to keep the economy open. The Twilight Zone is real this time.
I could say enough about our lt Governor, Danny Patrick Goab, but, as this is a moderated forum, I won't.
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Old 07-04-20, 10:04 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer View Post
.
...Frank Stokes also recorded "Mr. Crump don't like it, ain't gonna have it here." Not making this up.
I heart me some Frank Stokes. Another great of the era was Charley Jordon famous for "Keep it Clean", which is appropriate to this thread. My favorite version of the Charley Jordon song was recorded by Larry Johnson in 1970. Johnson was a great player and interpreter of the old blues styles but never received the recognition that, in my opinion, he should have. Johnson passed in 2016 and is probably listened to more today than anytime in his life.

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Old 07-05-20, 05:53 AM
  #61  
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[QUOTE=Juan Foote;21568483
The sooner that we come to the conclusion that no leader, no mask, no social distancing is actually going to STOP this. Allow it to run it's course. People will die. Hospitals will be full. And then all the ones who are left are stronger for it. It sucks, but it's natural selection at work. We can get back to the business of life.
[/QUOTE]

Many western countries (look north) have done due diligence, kept the virus in check as best as possible so they could allocate their healthcare resources to those that need it. By buying time, it's possible we can develop a vaccine and save millions of lives.
Your Darwinian 'rugged individualist' attitude is fine if you stay in your own country but why should should anyone else allow you to cross their borders just because you happen to think this is the way it should be? No thanks. There will never be another business as usual, get used to it. Please get used to vacationing at home.
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Old 07-05-20, 07:24 AM
  #62  
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there is a direct relationship in the developed world that the more cultural diversity in a geographic area ie Tx & Fla, the more likely the virus will spread whereas the 3rd worlders are at the mercy of whatever autocratic mindset is ruling them ameriKa is at the mercy of of its diversity
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Old 07-05-20, 08:38 AM
  #63  
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The problem with this concept is it ignores the realities of pandemic disease and human social interaction. Taking the unprecedented cautionary steps that we are, the US will see between 250,000 and 400,000 deaths this year. And hospitals in many areas are approaching capacity. If we were to simply ignore the presence of the virus as the OP suggests, the numbers of deaths would rise to several million. Hospitals everywhere would be overloaded and the deaths for unrelated health problems would skyrocket as well due to the lack of capacity.

The call is for businesses to operate in normal fashion and for everything to be "open," but as the death toll mounted that would cease to be the case. The fear and distrust we would hold for our fellow citizens would shut everything down and the economic chaos would be worse than we seen now.

In reality, the call to simply ignore the virus and return to life as normal could not actually happen. So it becomes in essence an abstract statement of political belief.
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Old 07-05-20, 08:54 AM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
The problem with this concept is it ignores the realities of pandemic disease and human social interaction. Taking the unprecedented cautionary steps that we are, the US will see between 250,000 and 400,000 deaths this year. And hospitals in many areas are approaching capacity. If we were to simply ignore the presence of the virus as the OP suggests, the numbers of deaths would rise to several million. Hospitals everywhere would be overloaded and the deaths for unrelated health problems would skyrocket as well due to the lack of capacity.

The call is for businesses to operate in normal fashion and for everything to be "open," but as the death toll mounted that would cease to be the case. The fear and distrust we would hold for our fellow citizens would shut everything down and the economic chaos would be worse than we seen now.

In reality, the call to simply ignore the virus and return to life as normal could not actually happen. So it becomes in essence an abstract statement of political belief.
Nailed it. To one of your points, Iím actually trying to avoid people more than I was. So many people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly. I was on a train on Friday. One guy kept pulling his mask down despite being told by the conductor not to do so. Finally the conductor threatened to kick him off at the next stop if he did it again. That worked. And social distancing? Thatís the other personís responsibility. As for economic activity, I have a good deal of disposable income, but you wouldnít find me inside a bar or restaurant even if I could go inside in my city.
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Old 07-05-20, 09:13 AM
  #65  
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^^^^ too too bad that AMERICA cannot get this in understandable form to all the people who claim to working to MAGA
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Old 07-05-20, 09:23 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Nailed it. To one of your points, Iím actually trying to avoid people more than I was. So many people not wearing masks or not wearing them properly. I was on a train on Friday. One guy kept pulling his mask down despite being told by the conductor not to do so. Finally the conductor threatened to kick him off at the next stop if he did it again. That worked. And social distancing? Thatís the other personís responsibility. As for economic activity, I have a good deal of disposable income, but you wouldnít find me inside a bar or restaurant even if I could go inside in my city.
Yup, I was at Walmart 90% had on their masks and this was the day before the governor finally mandates masks in public. I was keen on the mask less people avoiding them by a long way off as possible. Then came Bubba and Bubbette strutting around with no mask with attitude and I know they were trying to provoke a confrontation. I saw these idiots coming diverted the aisle just to avoid the clowns.
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Old 07-05-20, 10:33 AM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by jon c. View Post
the US will see between 250,000 and 400,000 deaths this year. And hospitals in many areas are approaching capacity. If we were to simply ignore the presence of the virus as the OP suggests, the numbers of deaths would rise to several million. Hospitals everywhere would be overloaded and the deaths for unrelated health problems would skyrocket as well due to the lack of capacity.

Aside from the compassion arguments being thrown around. The world is severely over populated and I just am not sure where I see even a couple of billion people not being here any longer bad for the one place we are known to exist. Nature has a way of balancing things, even when human interaction tries it's best to go another way. Whether we make it or not, and whether we leave it livable for what comes next, the dust will continue to circle our sun for a while, yet. We are living beyond the means of our world without turning our attention to what comes next. Nature (and or Chinese virologists) might fix that.
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Old 07-05-20, 10:53 AM
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Pandemics Depress the Economy, Public Health Interventions Do Not: Evidence from the 1918 Flu

As a result, we stress the limits of external validity of lessons from the 1918 Flu Pandemic. Despite these important differences, ongoing research finds that NPIs* implemented in 2020 have reduced disease transmission without leading to substantial further economic disruptions (see, e.g., Andersen et al., 2020; Lin and Meissner, 2020), and countries that implemented NPIs in the earlier stages of the COVID-19 pandemic have better shortterm economic outcomes (see, e.g., DemirgŁÁ-**** et al., 2020). We look forward to future research that disentangles the net impact, direct costs, and indirect benefits of NPIs implemented during COVID-19 in both the short and medium run.
....*non pharmaceutical interventions, like masks and social distancing.
Cities that implemented early and extensive non-pharmaceutical interventions (like physical distancing and forbidding large gatherings) suffered no adverse economic effects over the medium term. On the contrary, cities that intervened earlier and more aggressively experienced a relative increase in real economic activity after the pandemic subsided.

Altogether, our findings suggest that pandemics can have substantial economic costs, and non-pharmaceutical interventions can lead to both better economic outcomes and lower mortality rates.
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Old 07-05-20, 10:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Juan Foote View Post
... Whether we make it or not, and whether we leave it livable for what comes next,....
Economic historians do not agree on a headline figure for lost GDP because the effects of the flu are hard to disentangle from the confounding impact of the first world war.

The long-term consequences proved horrific. A surprisingly high proportion of adult health and cognitive ability is determined before we are even born. Research has shown the flu-born cohort achieved lower educational attainment by adulthood, experienced increased rates of physical disability, enjoyed lower lifetime income and a lower socioeconomic status than those born immediately before and after the flu pandemic.

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...us-will-131712
...
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Old 07-05-20, 11:19 AM
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.
...of the rational people I know, nobody thinks we "can stop this". All of them think we've done a piss poor job of managing it thus far in the USA, and that better management in terms of NPI's will both decrease our loss of life and have substantially less long term economic impact than denial, declarations of a victory that does not exist, and recommendations to just suck it up and deal. Those, of course, are those cursed by reason.
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Old 07-05-20, 11:22 AM
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^Interesting quotes/links above 3alarmer

thanks
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Old 07-05-20, 11:40 AM
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....of course you are very welcome.
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Old 07-05-20, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel View Post
Yup, I was at Walmart 90% had on their masks and this was the day before the governor finally mandates masks in public. I was keen on the mask less people avoiding them by a long way off as possible. Then came Bubba and Bubbette strutting around with no mask with attitude and I know they were trying to provoke a confrontation. I saw these idiots coming diverted the aisle just to avoid the clowns.
Many people wear them below the nose. Know how they test for the virus? By sticking a swab up your nose, not In your mouth. What should that tell people? To tell you the truth, Iím sick of many people.
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Old 07-05-20, 12:09 PM
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At this point we are so far behind the curve there may well be no stopping this. Although, it should be noted that much of New England had it really bad, and managed to get the numbers down. However, it is my belief that most of the states in the region are vastly under reporting their numbers from early in the pandemic.

New York reports 397,000 cases, and 32,000 deaths. Using the 1% rule, they likely had in excess of 3 million infected (out of 20 million population, or about 15% of the total population).

Likewise, New Jersey reports 173,000 cases and 15,000 deaths. Again with the 1% rule, they likely had in excess of 1.5 Million cases (out of 8.8 million, or about 15% to 20% of the population).

The US as a while is reporting 130,000 dead, indicating likely in excess of 13 Million cases, or about 4% of the population.

We have a long way to catch up to the infection levels in NY and NJ. Nonetheless, we may experience somewhat of a reprieve as a larger percent of the population becomes infected and recovered.

The rest of the population is waiting for the vaccine.
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Old 07-05-20, 12:14 PM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
To tell you the truth, Iím sick of many people.
I'm very much in the same state of mind.
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