Guess I *won't* be going tubeless
10-09-18, 03:36 PM
#101
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With tubed tires I've had a couple of flats going fast downhill but only on the rear, but in every case that I have had a flat the tube tire stayed on the rim. That at least gave me time to get the bike under control to a stop.
10-09-18, 03:42 PM
#102
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No, soap is used to mount the tire, although that is just to aid the installation. It should have no impact on the sealant. The residual soap will also decrease the friction of the bead on the rim. The soap may get a little tacky on the rim but, all things considered, a dry rim/tire interface is going to have higher friction than anything else.
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10-09-18, 03:52 PM
#103
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My new bike came set up tubeless with Mavic rims 700X25. I've been running 90 to 100 psi. Got a puncture yesterday on the rear, the darned thing sprayed sealant all over the back of the bike, my water bottle, legs, etc. Huge mess.
I was only about 2 miles from home so I continued home with one more spraying incident. Once I got home I removed those rims and put my carbon clinchers on.
I'm done until the technology is better equipped to deal with higher pressures.
I was only about 2 miles from home so I continued home with one more spraying incident. Once I got home I removed those rims and put my carbon clinchers on.
I'm done until the technology is better equipped to deal with higher pressures.
The sealant should be able to seal a huge hole but not if you keep opening it. From your description, it sounds like the object was still in the tire and not allowing it to seal. On the other hand, higher pressure tires are more likely to blow the plug out of a large hole and cause fountains of goop.
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
10-09-18, 04:14 PM
#104
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+1. It's like a rider continuing to blow snot balls for the whole ride. We had one recently and it kept spitting for at least an hour. We sent the rider to the back.
10-09-18, 06:41 PM
#105
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I picked up a new pair of Roubaix Pros tonight. Sidewall pressure rating is 45-90 PSI. Used two wraps of Stan’s yellow rim tape without the spoke plugs. Installed the tires dry, initially starting the seal at 30 PSI and then slowly increasing pressure to 70 PSI on the front, 90 PSI on the rear, until the bead set evenly. Used 2.5 ounces of Stan’s Race seal figuring I’d lose some from run out and some would stay in the measuring cup.
These tires were much more rubbery at the bead, than the old ones, but that could simply be bacause the other tires had a few hundred miles on them. They seem to be holding air better so far too, but I’ll know better about that in the morning.
-Matt
These tires were much more rubbery at the bead, than the old ones, but that could simply be bacause the other tires had a few hundred miles on them. They seem to be holding air better so far too, but I’ll know better about that in the morning.
-Matt
10-09-18, 06:49 PM
#106
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My new bike came set up tubeless with Mavic rims 700X25. I've been running 90 to 100 psi. Got a puncture yesterday on the rear, the darned thing sprayed sealant all over the back of the bike, my water bottle, legs, etc. Huge mess.
I was only about 2 miles from home so I continued home with one more spraying incident. Once I got home I removed those rims and put my carbon clinchers on.
I'm done until the technology is better equipped to deal with higher pressures.
I was only about 2 miles from home so I continued home with one more spraying incident. Once I got home I removed those rims and put my carbon clinchers on.
I'm done until the technology is better equipped to deal with higher pressures.
I know sealant showers are no fun....I've had my share.
10-09-18, 08:30 PM
#107
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I gotta say using Stans Rims and a Maxxis Tire with Stan's Sealant is super easy to mount having done it 3 times now for a customer (though the tires he bought have some defects hence the third time doing it) I always heard the horror stories and hard to seat beads but this was almost too easy. I didn't bother removing a valve core I just poured the 2oz in the tire and bingo bango bongo I was inflated and ready to ride (if it were my bike).
I hope one day all the rim and tire brands will come together and sit down at the table and say "this is how we should make the rims and this is how we should make the tires" so everyone is on the same page and make this whole business much easier. It is redonkulus that it still has to be such a PITA after how many years of tubeless being out for bikes.
I hope one day all the rim and tire brands will come together and sit down at the table and say "this is how we should make the rims and this is how we should make the tires" so everyone is on the same page and make this whole business much easier. It is redonkulus that it still has to be such a PITA after how many years of tubeless being out for bikes.
10-09-18, 09:35 PM
#108
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First ride about 22 miles, roads are wet so I took it fairly easy. Rode for about an hour and a half. Rear tire lost 2.5 PSI. Not bad, and I hope it gets better. Front tire lost 34 PSI. Not so good, but hopefully after a couple of days it will seal better.
-Matt
-Matt
10-09-18, 10:01 PM
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Matt -
2.5 PSI is about right for the first ride on a tire, but 34PSI means that your tape or valve stem is leaking, and leaking a lot. I don't think that will fix itself.
2.5 PSI is about right for the first ride on a tire, but 34PSI means that your tape or valve stem is leaking, and leaking a lot. I don't think that will fix itself.
10-10-18, 08:54 AM
#110
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I could stop and fill up with CO2, but my experience with CO2 in an inner tube is that it leaks out quite a bit in about an hour. Or I guess I could stop and top up the tires with a mini pump, though it would take a bit longer. With inner tubes, I wouldn't have to bother.
-Matt
10-10-18, 09:01 AM
#111
Non omnino gravis
If you're losing any notable amount of pressure over just 30 miles, something is leaking. Tape, valve stem, valve core, something. Whatever I air a tire to before a 90 minute ride is what the pressure is at when I get home-- provided there's no punctures.
I guess I should be thankful though that I can't feel a difference of 5psi. I started to notice my rear 700x25 feeling sluggish one ride, just kept on with the ride. Got home and it had 40psi in it. Still rode pretty well. Over the last half of the ride or so, my average speed was down about 1mph.
I guess I should be thankful though that I can't feel a difference of 5psi. I started to notice my rear 700x25 feeling sluggish one ride, just kept on with the ride. Got home and it had 40psi in it. Still rode pretty well. Over the last half of the ride or so, my average speed was down about 1mph.
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10-10-18, 09:04 AM
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True, I did get home without stopping. However once I did get home it took me far longer to clean up the mess than it would have to swap the tube on the road. I'll wait for some "high pressure sealant" that won't blow snot... until then I'll happily ride old school with tubes.
10-10-18, 09:14 AM
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If you're losing any notable amount of pressure over just 30 miles, something is leaking. Tape, valve stem, valve core, something. Whatever I air a tire to before a 90 minute ride is what the pressure is at when I get home-- provided there's no punctures.
I guess I should be thankful though that I can't feel a difference of 5psi. I started to notice my rear 700x25 feeling sluggish one ride, just kept on with the ride. Got home and it had 40psi in it. Still rode pretty well. Over the last half of the ride or so, my average speed was down about 1mph.
I guess I should be thankful though that I can't feel a difference of 5psi. I started to notice my rear 700x25 feeling sluggish one ride, just kept on with the ride. Got home and it had 40psi in it. Still rode pretty well. Over the last half of the ride or so, my average speed was down about 1mph.
I'm not sure I'f I'm really feeling the 5 PSI or not. I do think I can feel 10 PSI. It could be that what I think I'm feeling at 5 PSI could have more to do with the fact that these tires have considerably more rolling resistance than the GP400SIIs I'd been running, but that's to be expected.
-Matt
10-10-18, 10:50 AM
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I picked up a new pair of Roubaix Pros tonight. Sidewall pressure rating is 45-90 PSI. Used two wraps of Stan’s yellow rim tape without the spoke plugs. Installed the tires dry, initially starting the seal at 30 PSI and then slowly increasing pressure to 70 PSI on the front, 90 PSI on the rear, until the bead set evenly. Used 2.5 ounces of Stan’s Race seal figuring I’d lose some from run out and some would stay in the measuring cup.
These tires were much more rubbery at the bead, than the old ones, but that could simply be bacause the other tires had a few hundred miles on them. They seem to be holding air better so far too, but I’ll know better about that in the morning.
-Matt
These tires were much more rubbery at the bead, than the old ones, but that could simply be bacause the other tires had a few hundred miles on them. They seem to be holding air better so far too, but I’ll know better about that in the morning.
-Matt
10-10-18, 01:43 PM
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I am using Orange Endurance (4 oz..) in Schwalbe Pro One 28C tires at 85psi up front and 90 psi in the rear. I originally have used Stans in my Karate Monkey hard tail 29er and it seem to work fine at 25-30psi. Did not like Stans at all for the higher pressures. I am using the Reynolds Assault carbon rims that have worked well with the Pro Ones. A couple of things that have helped me to seal the tire the first time mounting. One is that I do it in the afternoon after setting the new tire in the sun for few hours. I find it is a bit more flexible for the first time sealing. After cleaning the rims and tires with Isopropyl alcohol, I get the tire on the rim, and use a small cheap throwaway acid brush and paint a little Orange Endurance around the sealing area of the tire and rim. I next use a pancake air compressor/ Schrader valve air gun to pop the tire and only go up to 30 psi. I slowly rotate the tire and allow the sealant to coat the inside for any possible slow leaks. I check it under water after ten minutes and then I go up to the desired pressure.
One time I caught a construction screw into the tire at the end of the ride, when I stop for the required coffee and blue berry muffin. The sealant was spraying everywhere. I rolled the bike over to a dirt patch and just rubbed the tire into dirt where the leak was and of course some dirt stuck to the tire. It was a big hole, but it sealed perfectly. I filled the water bottle and just sprayed a some water and rubbed a little to get the majority of the sealant off the bike and had very little clean up at home. A wet rag did the rest. I also use that 3M film plastic to protect the paint on the seat stays and downtube. The orange sealant slightly discolored the plastic, but not much.
I have about 3000 miles this year over rough LA county roads and have no blow outs, or catastrophic failures. I have much more confidence in the set up I now have than before, and it is definitely faster.
Tubeless works for me.
One time I caught a construction screw into the tire at the end of the ride, when I stop for the required coffee and blue berry muffin. The sealant was spraying everywhere. I rolled the bike over to a dirt patch and just rubbed the tire into dirt where the leak was and of course some dirt stuck to the tire. It was a big hole, but it sealed perfectly. I filled the water bottle and just sprayed a some water and rubbed a little to get the majority of the sealant off the bike and had very little clean up at home. A wet rag did the rest. I also use that 3M film plastic to protect the paint on the seat stays and downtube. The orange sealant slightly discolored the plastic, but not much.
I have about 3000 miles this year over rough LA county roads and have no blow outs, or catastrophic failures. I have much more confidence in the set up I now have than before, and it is definitely faster.
Tubeless works for me.
10-10-18, 04:55 PM
#116
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Well this guy makes tubeless look like a great way to go. Is it the Mavic system he is using? This video is dated April 2018 so maybe there have been improvements.
A side note: If you haven't seen his other videos, look for The Col Collective videos. Love these vids, this guy tackles the worlds best climbs. Wonderful stuff.
A side note: If you haven't seen his other videos, look for The Col Collective videos. Love these vids, this guy tackles the worlds best climbs. Wonderful stuff.
10-10-18, 06:41 PM
#117
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Matt - Are able to use a dispensing needle to add sealant thru the valve core? One way to fix leaks like this is to dump a crapload of sealant, like a half bottle, in via the core and then inflate/swirl. Filling the tires cross section with fluid and then rotating the tire makes sure the fluid is forced through the leak.
One sealed you suck the extra fluid out of the valve core using the needle in reverse.
I used this to seal up the last Roval/Specialized 2Bliss tire set that I used and did not have a problem thereafter.
(Link to dispensing needle: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )
One sealed you suck the extra fluid out of the valve core using the needle in reverse.
I used this to seal up the last Roval/Specialized 2Bliss tire set that I used and did not have a problem thereafter.
(Link to dispensing needle: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1 )
10-11-18, 03:26 AM
#118
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I found this scene when I went out to ride this morning:
...
Gives me the willies thinking about the carnage if that would have happened going 40 miles per hour somewhere. Wheels are Roval SLX 24, tires are Specialized Roubaix Pro. Both are supposed to be tubeless. ...
...
Gives me the willies thinking about the carnage if that would have happened going 40 miles per hour somewhere. Wheels are Roval SLX 24, tires are Specialized Roubaix Pro. Both are supposed to be tubeless. ...
A lot of the general problems of tubeless tires involves the kevlar beads breaking. In the early days of the Stans MTB setups, the vast majority of reports of (conventional, non-tubeless) MTB tires blowing off was tires with kevlar beads. It was rarely ever reported with steel-bead tires.
Once a kevlar-bead MTB tire blew off, the bead itself was totally broken and the tire was ruined. I am wondering here if a road tire bead could fail enough to lift over the rim, but still appear to be undamaged?...
I think that if the tire companies returned to using steel beads, they would avoid a lot of these problems. A kevlar bead stretches about six times as far as a steel bead does.
Warning: I've not used any bicycle tubeless tires yet at all.
Why I aint tried tubeless yet:
There are still problems with lack of standardization among bicycle tubeless tire & rim systems.
At this point it is still my belief that if you buy tubeless rims, you should expect to run ONLY tires meant for that specific tubeless rim type.
And normal clinchers may not work reliably on your tubeless rims either, even though most tubeless rims makers claim they do.
-----
I tend to think that tubeless is the future, but it will need to be standardized--so that all the tire companies can make one style of tubeless bead and know that it will work correctly on all tubeless rims. Just like what they do now with regular clincher tires.
And that future tubeless will be 'dry' tubeless, without using any internal puncture sealant.
The liquid sealant causes a lot of problems, and most people don't need such aggressive flat protection. The sealant works great when it works, but is a huge mess when it doesn't work.
To fix a puncture in a dry-tubeless tire, you will just stick some glue and a patch on the inside.
10-11-18, 07:43 AM
#119
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This thread has gone crazy
There is a large amount of questionable information that has been offered in the thread.
-Rim tape if installed at the correct width has zero effect on the bead of the tire.
-Using over 200 ounces of sealant to initially seal the tie is completely incorrect and unnecessary.
-Tubless tires do not use Kevlar bead material but rather carbon fiber because it does not stretch as much as Kevlar. This is why a standard clincher will become easy to remove without levers after some use but that dis not happen with tubeless tires. Any time I need to actually tube a tire to finish a ride the removal required levers.
-Mavic UST notwithstanding (but I am of the belief that it is similar), tubeless tire bead and tubeless compatible rim beads lock together to help form the seal needed. This results in an interface that won’t easily just blow off the rim. This in fact was one of the benefits touted in Hutchinson print ads for tubeless tires several years ago.
-Industry standard for proof pressure of a tire is two times it’s rated value. This alone removes any doubt as to whether pressure caused damage to OP’s tire.
-While I have no information to disprove or prove that tubless has a higher failure rate, it makes little sense without facts to support the assertion.
I have no personal experience with road tubeless tires of that width but have ridden Hutchinson and Schwalbe tires of various models with four different rims of three different brands for over 10 years and tens of thousands of miles with many flats including ones that made the tire unrepairable and have not experienced one tire failure resulting in an unsafe condition. This has all been at higher road tire pressures of between 80-110 psi with 23c widths. The beads always require force to unseat after flatting only reassuring me that the safety of the system is a real benefit (have had a tubed tire come off the rim from a blowout) I ride over 10k/year and race with lots of mountainous descending and high speed use (50mph+) with complete confidence. In fact I personally feel safer on tubeless tires as I know compatible combos of tire and wheel will stay together in the unlikely event of a blowout.
I cannot speculate how the OP’s tire could have spontaneously removed itself from the rim but am confident it is not a normal occurrence at all. I mean not to offend anybody, am only sharing facts as I have learned them and personal experience. I am a complete tubless supporter. It blends most of the benefits of tubed and tubular tires together. They can be a hassle to initially set up (but experience has help reduce that effort) compared to installation of a tube but significantly less than gluing on a tire.
-Rim tape if installed at the correct width has zero effect on the bead of the tire.
-Using over 200 ounces of sealant to initially seal the tie is completely incorrect and unnecessary.
-Tubless tires do not use Kevlar bead material but rather carbon fiber because it does not stretch as much as Kevlar. This is why a standard clincher will become easy to remove without levers after some use but that dis not happen with tubeless tires. Any time I need to actually tube a tire to finish a ride the removal required levers.
-Mavic UST notwithstanding (but I am of the belief that it is similar), tubeless tire bead and tubeless compatible rim beads lock together to help form the seal needed. This results in an interface that won’t easily just blow off the rim. This in fact was one of the benefits touted in Hutchinson print ads for tubeless tires several years ago.
-Industry standard for proof pressure of a tire is two times it’s rated value. This alone removes any doubt as to whether pressure caused damage to OP’s tire.
-While I have no information to disprove or prove that tubless has a higher failure rate, it makes little sense without facts to support the assertion.
I have no personal experience with road tubeless tires of that width but have ridden Hutchinson and Schwalbe tires of various models with four different rims of three different brands for over 10 years and tens of thousands of miles with many flats including ones that made the tire unrepairable and have not experienced one tire failure resulting in an unsafe condition. This has all been at higher road tire pressures of between 80-110 psi with 23c widths. The beads always require force to unseat after flatting only reassuring me that the safety of the system is a real benefit (have had a tubed tire come off the rim from a blowout) I ride over 10k/year and race with lots of mountainous descending and high speed use (50mph+) with complete confidence. In fact I personally feel safer on tubeless tires as I know compatible combos of tire and wheel will stay together in the unlikely event of a blowout.
I cannot speculate how the OP’s tire could have spontaneously removed itself from the rim but am confident it is not a normal occurrence at all. I mean not to offend anybody, am only sharing facts as I have learned them and personal experience. I am a complete tubless supporter. It blends most of the benefits of tubed and tubular tires together. They can be a hassle to initially set up (but experience has help reduce that effort) compared to installation of a tube but significantly less than gluing on a tire.
10-11-18, 08:22 AM
#120
Senior Member
I don't quite have 1000 miles on the front yet, but so far no flats, no leaks, and haven't re-pumped it yet.
But, yes, that is about what I get, one flat every 1000 miles or so... perhaps a half dozen a year (including a couple of bikes, trailers, etc).
I have to wonder how long until we start seeing some heavy-duty road tires coming out in tubeless.
Perhaps some vendors are waiting for others to shake out the problems before putting their flagship tires out as tubeless.
Perhaps the Gator Hardshell in tubeless?
They're coming. Perhaps in a decade we'll all be asking what tubes are
Very few car tires in the USA from the last 10 years take tubes, and most of those would be very vintage tires.
But, yes, that is about what I get, one flat every 1000 miles or so... perhaps a half dozen a year (including a couple of bikes, trailers, etc).
I have to wonder how long until we start seeing some heavy-duty road tires coming out in tubeless.
Perhaps some vendors are waiting for others to shake out the problems before putting their flagship tires out as tubeless.
Perhaps the Gator Hardshell in tubeless?
They're coming. Perhaps in a decade we'll all be asking what tubes are
Very few car tires in the USA from the last 10 years take tubes, and most of those would be very vintage tires.
Last edited by aclinjury; 10-11-18 at 08:27 AM.
10-11-18, 08:37 AM
#121
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Before you go claiming that people are offering questionable information, you need to check your own information.
-Tubless tires do not use Kevlar bead material but rather carbon fiber because it does not stretch as much as Kevlar. This is why a standard clincher will become easy to remove without levers after some use but that dis not happen with tubeless tires. Any time I need to actually tube a tire to finish a ride the removal required levers.
. In folding tires, the wire is replaced with a hoop of aramid fibers.
-Mavic UST notwithstanding (but I am of the belief that it is similar), tubeless tire bead and tubeless compatible rim beads lock together to help form the seal needed. This results in an interface that won’t easily just blow off the rim. This in fact was one of the benefits touted in Hutchinson print ads for tubeless tires several years ago.
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Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
10-11-18, 09:54 AM
#122
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Tire pressure
I’m unable to find that specific information. This is information I learned about tire pressures in the 90’s, I recall reading that. While tires do have their maximum rated pressure listed on the sidewall, it would be quite perilous if that were the limit at which the tire would hold together. There are severalvariables at work between ambient temp, braking, and rider weight. Though very informal here is a link to a YouTube video of someone trying to see how much pressure a tire would take before bursting. Have a look at this. youtu.be/SDLVBPspSK4
10-11-18, 10:11 AM
#123
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Give yourself more time before you paint a too rosy picture for tubeless. Once a tubeless tire starts to wear down the meat of its rubber, then its ability to seal a hole (even a small one) diminishes dramatically. And if a hole was sealed when the tire was still relatively new, then the same hold could pop open once the tire wears down a bit. What this means is that you almost never could come close to using the entire lifespan of a tubeless tire without resorting to putting in a tube in the later stage of its life. And this effectively raises the "cost of ownership" of a "tubeles" tire (because you can't use it tubeless for its entirety). Another con against tubeless tire is that once a tubeless tire is mounted and used, its bead will stretch compared to when new, so re-mounting it again will almost always require compressed air and still it may be more prone to to leaking air compared to when tire was new. I have had at least 2 tubeless tires that did this to me and ended up sticking a tube in to get some more usage out of them (and putting a tube in a tubeless tire means cleaning the damn gunk off). I finally came to the conclusion that tubeless is nice when tire is new, then not nice as tire wears down. Back to regular clinchers for me, where I can buy them on sale pretty much at any given time on the various big online sellers, lowers cost of ownership, which is important for me since I have 4 bikes to up keep.
I would check your technique on re mounting a tubeless tire. When I do it, I do it in a timely efficient manner so the sealant doesn't start to gel. I dismount the tire over the garage sink, put the tire in a 5 gallon bucket with warm soapy water. Clean the rim with a white towel and soap. Orange Endurance comes right off, maybe 5-10 minutes of light rubbing. Then I move onto the tire and use a scrub brush and lay it flat in the bottom of the sink. This takes maybe at most, 10-15 minutes, most important is the sealing edge of the tire. If I have any serious punctures, I will patch those with the Hutchison tubeless patch kit. In 30 minutes, I will have the tire mounted and air in it up to 40 psi to check for leaks. No big deal. Schwalbe Pro Ones with the Orange Endurance sealant is working very well for me. I am getting full life out of the tires at around 2000 miles, which in SoCal, is about norm in our area.
You don't even mention performance and safety in your evaluation of tubeless tires. I am much more interested in how safe a tire is and how it performs. I have found the Schwalbe Pro Ones corner much better, roll better, grip better and give a feeling of confidence that my previous tires did not have. My trainer wheels (DT Swiss R470 with Conti's 4000s II) don't perform nearly as well, although they are acceptable.
Last edited by sirkaos; 10-11-18 at 10:12 AM. Reason: wrong word
10-11-18, 10:56 AM
#124
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I’m unable to find that specific information. This is information I learned about tire pressures in the 90’s, I recall reading that. While tires do have their maximum rated pressure listed on the sidewall, it would be quite perilous if that were the limit at which the tire would hold together. There are several variables at work between ambient temp, braking, and rider weight. Though very informal here is a link to a YouTube video of someone trying to see how much pressure a tire would take before bursting. Have a look at this. youtu.be/SDLVBPspSK4
EDIT: I found the old video,,, they changed the beginning part?
This video (on the "How It's Made" UK TV show) shows a Schwalbe MTB tire bursting at about 16 bar (240 PSI). Go to the 4:57 time mark, that's where the bursting test is shown.
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In modern times the practical limit of tire pressure is not so much the tire construction as the rim... It should be possible to make a bicycle tire that could withstand ~400 PSI but no rim could take that.
It's not difficult to find examples of people seeing road bike rims split with higher pressures (120 - 150 PSI).
This problem gets dramatically worse with fatter tires. With some MTB rims, the max pressure they give for 3" wide tires is only ~40% of what they give for 2.2" wide tires.
Last edited by Doug5150; 10-11-18 at 11:02 AM. Reason: Found the old video!!! :D
10-11-18, 11:52 AM
#125
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Do you have any proof of this other than your own experience? I have never had to resorting to adding a tube to get the last portion of life out of a tubeless tire.
I would check your technique on re mounting a tubeless tire. When I do it, I do it in a timely efficient manner so the sealant doesn't start to gel. I dismount the tire over the garage sink, put the tire in a 5 gallon bucket with warm soapy water. Clean the rim with a white towel and soap. Orange Endurance comes right off, maybe 5-10 minutes of light rubbing. Then I move onto the tire and use a scrub brush and lay it flat in the bottom of the sink. This takes maybe at most, 10-15 minutes, most important is the sealing edge of the tire. If I have any serious punctures, I will patch those with the Hutchison tubeless patch kit. In 30 minutes, I will have the tire mounted and air in it up to 40 psi to check for leaks. No big deal. Schwalbe Pro Ones with the Orange Endurance sealant is working very well for me. I am getting full life out of the tires at around 2000 miles, which in SoCal, is about norm in our area.
You don't even mention performance and safety in your evaluation of tubeless tires. I am much more interested in how safe a tire is and how it performs. I have found the Schwalbe Pro Ones corner much better, roll better, grip better and give a feeling of confidence that my previous tires did not have. My trainer wheels (DT Swiss R470 with Conti's 4000s II) don't perform nearly as well, although they are acceptable.
I would check your technique on re mounting a tubeless tire. When I do it, I do it in a timely efficient manner so the sealant doesn't start to gel. I dismount the tire over the garage sink, put the tire in a 5 gallon bucket with warm soapy water. Clean the rim with a white towel and soap. Orange Endurance comes right off, maybe 5-10 minutes of light rubbing. Then I move onto the tire and use a scrub brush and lay it flat in the bottom of the sink. This takes maybe at most, 10-15 minutes, most important is the sealing edge of the tire. If I have any serious punctures, I will patch those with the Hutchison tubeless patch kit. In 30 minutes, I will have the tire mounted and air in it up to 40 psi to check for leaks. No big deal. Schwalbe Pro Ones with the Orange Endurance sealant is working very well for me. I am getting full life out of the tires at around 2000 miles, which in SoCal, is about norm in our area.
You don't even mention performance and safety in your evaluation of tubeless tires. I am much more interested in how safe a tire is and how it performs. I have found the Schwalbe Pro Ones corner much better, roll better, grip better and give a feeling of confidence that my previous tires did not have. My trainer wheels (DT Swiss R470 with Conti's 4000s II) don't perform nearly as well, although they are acceptable.
In the mtb world, there are lots of examples where a tubeless tire burp and pop out of the rim, even at low psi. And you raised up the question of safety, which is precisely one of the OP central concerns when posting this thread. But do you have any evidence (not proof) to back up your claim about the Schwalbe Pro One's performance? I ask in an honest way and not out of sarcasm or anything. Lots of guys go tubeless and I hear a lot of claim better "performance" this and that, yet I have yet to see anything remotely resembling evidence. Could you explain how tubeless tire gives better grip when grip is dependent solely on the rubber type and not tire type? Guess what, the cheapest Schwalbe Pro One in 25c anywhere online is like $63, not exactly cheap. But hey if that's what gives you better performance, then who am I to argue.