Horrible Crash Into Cycling Group Broward County
11-28-18, 07:25 PM
#126
C*pt*i* Obvious
11-28-18, 07:34 PM
#128
C*pt*i* Obvious
This particular motorist, it is assumed, was not drunk or high. She was JUST LIKE every other motorist out there, or at least 99% of them who speed and get distracted. On your next ride, consider that 9 of 10 cars passing you are JUST LIKE HER. Then decide what route you should take and how you should act on your bicycle. If you want to live anyway.
The driver is 100% at fault. 2 cyclists are dead right. They could have done better IMO.
Its tragic.
The worst part is, most people think that this wont happen to them.
11-28-18, 08:07 PM
#130
C*pt*i* Obvious
11-28-18, 08:24 PM
#132
C*pt*i* Obvious
Be sure to ride on these types of roads all day everyday, and give us daily status updates.
Statistically speaking, its perfectly safe.
11-28-18, 09:01 PM
#133
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This particular motorist, it is assumed, was not drunk or high. She was JUST LIKE every other motorist out there, or at least 99% of them who speed and get distracted. On your next ride, consider that 9 of 10 cars passing you are JUST LIKE HER. Then decide what route you should take and how you should act on your bicycle. If you want to live anyway.
The driver is 100% at fault. 2 cyclists are dead right. They could have done better IMO.
The driver is 100% at fault. 2 cyclists are dead right. They could have done better IMO.
Each of us assumes that we Aren't going to be killed when we go out each day ... else we wouldn't go.
If we really thought that we were going to die on the ride ... we wouldn't ride. Otherwise we would be heading out planning to die .... And by the way ... that would be making another Assumption.
Want a definition of "sophomoric argument"?
I mean .. . a second definition?
11-28-18, 09:31 PM
#134
C*pt*i* Obvious
Bunch of garbage.
Each of us assumes that we Aren't going to be killed when we go out each day ... else we wouldn't go.
If we really thought that we were going to die on the ride ... we wouldn't ride. Otherwise we would be heading out planning to die .... And by the way ... that would be making another Assumption.
Want a definition of "sophomoric argument"?
I mean .. . a second definition?
Each of us assumes that we Aren't going to be killed when we go out each day ... else we wouldn't go.
If we really thought that we were going to die on the ride ... we wouldn't ride. Otherwise we would be heading out planning to die .... And by the way ... that would be making another Assumption.
Want a definition of "sophomoric argument"?
I mean .. . a second definition?
Hopefully there will be a sequel to today, I certainly don't expect to live forever.
Do you?
11-28-18, 10:03 PM
#135
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So yes, I assume there are lots more distracted motorists than in the '80s, therefore I wouldn't go anymore. And I'm still here, not even in a wheelchair. I assume that if I do cycle those roads, I might be injured or killed. Many do not have those concerns. God is looking out for them, or whatever justification they use, maybe even give it no thought at all.
Others have thicker skin. I applaud them. I still don't want to lose them. And I am going to find some other way to die.
For sure. Given how many people ride bikes in the USA, I would say the chance of getting smacked on a dangerous highway is a "statistical zero". My chances are substantially less than that.
Last edited by JoeyBike; 11-28-18 at 10:08 PM.
11-28-18, 10:06 PM
#136
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Little germs and clogged arteries will take a lot of us, which is a pretty unimaginative way to go.
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11-28-18, 11:04 PM
#137
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Fact is, we All leave here, one way or another.
It is not feasible to live each day is if it were the last. In that case, I wouldn't pay bills. I wouldn't buy food. I certainly wouldn't pay the mortgage. If I seriously believed I was not going to be here tomorrow, i wouldn't go to work, for sure ... not sure what I could do in one day to give some final meaning to my life ... maybe call all the friends I can think of and say whatever I haven't said, maybe go for a walk with my wife .... maybe buy some cocaine and marijuana for after I had spent time with everyone .... then go play some loud music and get really ripped for the first time in a couple decades .... why not, at that point? I would be just a few minutes from death, not much left to lose by smoking some pot, right?
Whether we are honest enough to admit it or not, a simple examination of our actions shows that we all Assume we will be here to morrow and for a while afterwards. And that is the fact, except for the one day when it isn't. But we cannot live for that day, because there often is no warning. We have to live as though we will be here tomorrow. We have the Option of understanding that life is a one-way trip which gets shorter constantly, and that at he far end our capacities diminish, so that this day is precious.
But as for that'Live like ti is your last daya" crap ... really,. You would spend one of the last minutes of your life arguing with Me on a website? That is truly sad.
We all live like we plan to be here tomorrow ... and want to be. The riders on that road ... maybe that same club had ridden that same stretch of road every Sunday morning for decades. I cannot imagine that a group of experienced cyclists would deliberately ride on a dangerous road, when there are so many roads. I don't hear anything about them being adrenaline junkies or death-wish crazies like the guy weaving through Mexico City on a brakeless fixie ....
Some people are not comfortable on any road, and only ride paths and trails. Some people think road-riding is too dangerous, and then go do crazy obstacles on MTBs. Every one of us analyzes the risks and the rewards---all of which are assumptions in themselves---and chooses a path including enjoyment and survival. All of us ... except the few who deliberately actively take steps to end their own lives, and die at their won hands. But this was not a case of bicycle suicide, so that does not pertain.
Saying that these people were risking their lives because they were riding in Florida even, is crap. Not every square inch of Florida is dangerous ... and Any road where a car and a bike can travel at the same time presents a possibility of death for the cyclist.
the riders who got run down in that national park ... they shouldn't have been riding?
And i can guarantee you ... no cyclists had been killed along that stretch of road prior to this, or the club wouldn't have used it. So ... according to statistics, it was a perfectly safe road for cyclists.
Pretty simple. if cycling on the road is too scary, don't. if cycling on certain roads is to, don't.
But keep in mind ... for some, riding a bicycle anywhere at all is too scary. Who sets the limit? Where does the scale start?
Personally, I don't give a rotten fig for everyone else's paranoid rantings anyway. I know I will leave one day, one way or another. Whether i ride across traffic with no lights, at night, all in black or never ride my bike at all ... if I stay home and refuse to ever go out, or if I do whatever .... the Only guarantee is that I am never going to be safe. We All leave here, sooner or alter, one way or another.
I try to do things which make both today and the days i have remaining, worthwhile. But of course, i often fail.
Proof of that is the amount of time i spend here, trying to explain things to some of the people here.
But ... there are a few good ones too. I am grateful for them.
It is not feasible to live each day is if it were the last. In that case, I wouldn't pay bills. I wouldn't buy food. I certainly wouldn't pay the mortgage. If I seriously believed I was not going to be here tomorrow, i wouldn't go to work, for sure ... not sure what I could do in one day to give some final meaning to my life ... maybe call all the friends I can think of and say whatever I haven't said, maybe go for a walk with my wife .... maybe buy some cocaine and marijuana for after I had spent time with everyone .... then go play some loud music and get really ripped for the first time in a couple decades .... why not, at that point? I would be just a few minutes from death, not much left to lose by smoking some pot, right?
Whether we are honest enough to admit it or not, a simple examination of our actions shows that we all Assume we will be here to morrow and for a while afterwards. And that is the fact, except for the one day when it isn't. But we cannot live for that day, because there often is no warning. We have to live as though we will be here tomorrow. We have the Option of understanding that life is a one-way trip which gets shorter constantly, and that at he far end our capacities diminish, so that this day is precious.
But as for that'Live like ti is your last daya" crap ... really,. You would spend one of the last minutes of your life arguing with Me on a website? That is truly sad.
We all live like we plan to be here tomorrow ... and want to be. The riders on that road ... maybe that same club had ridden that same stretch of road every Sunday morning for decades. I cannot imagine that a group of experienced cyclists would deliberately ride on a dangerous road, when there are so many roads. I don't hear anything about them being adrenaline junkies or death-wish crazies like the guy weaving through Mexico City on a brakeless fixie ....
Some people are not comfortable on any road, and only ride paths and trails. Some people think road-riding is too dangerous, and then go do crazy obstacles on MTBs. Every one of us analyzes the risks and the rewards---all of which are assumptions in themselves---and chooses a path including enjoyment and survival. All of us ... except the few who deliberately actively take steps to end their own lives, and die at their won hands. But this was not a case of bicycle suicide, so that does not pertain.
Saying that these people were risking their lives because they were riding in Florida even, is crap. Not every square inch of Florida is dangerous ... and Any road where a car and a bike can travel at the same time presents a possibility of death for the cyclist.
the riders who got run down in that national park ... they shouldn't have been riding?
And i can guarantee you ... no cyclists had been killed along that stretch of road prior to this, or the club wouldn't have used it. So ... according to statistics, it was a perfectly safe road for cyclists.
Pretty simple. if cycling on the road is too scary, don't. if cycling on certain roads is to, don't.
But keep in mind ... for some, riding a bicycle anywhere at all is too scary. Who sets the limit? Where does the scale start?
Personally, I don't give a rotten fig for everyone else's paranoid rantings anyway. I know I will leave one day, one way or another. Whether i ride across traffic with no lights, at night, all in black or never ride my bike at all ... if I stay home and refuse to ever go out, or if I do whatever .... the Only guarantee is that I am never going to be safe. We All leave here, sooner or alter, one way or another.
I try to do things which make both today and the days i have remaining, worthwhile. But of course, i often fail.
Proof of that is the amount of time i spend here, trying to explain things to some of the people here.
But ... there are a few good ones too. I am grateful for them.
11-28-18, 11:26 PM
#138
What happened?
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Summary: Life is still 100% fatal.
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11-28-18, 11:54 PM
#139
C*pt*i* Obvious
11-29-18, 05:21 AM
#140
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I'd have gone for a more classical reference .... "It is a tale Told by an idiot, full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing.:"
11-29-18, 06:50 AM
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Horrible Crash Into Cycling Group Broward County
Quite a screed, @Maelochs , and thanks for deigning to post (with all due respect) on this fundamental existential question, appropriately for BikeForums in the context of cycling which I claim as a lifestyle.
FWIW, I have posted / quoted about it myself, including just yesterday, "How do you find your motivation to ride?":
and,
Even after this:
FWIW
PS:
Fact is, we All leave here, one way or another.
It is not feasible to live each day is if it were the last. In that case, I wouldn't pay bills. I wouldn't buy food. I certainly wouldn't pay the mortgagef I seriously believed I was not going to be here tomorrow, i wouldn't go to work, for sure ... not sure what I could do in one day to give some final meaning to my life ... maybe call all the friends I can think of and say whatever I haven't said, maybe go for a walk with my wife .... maybe buy some cocaine and marijuana for after I had spent time with everyone .... then go play some loud music and get really ripped for the first time in a couple decades .... why not, at that point? I would be just a few minutes from death, not much left to lose by smoking some pot, right?
Whether we are honest enough to admit it or not, a simple examination of our actions shows that we all Assume we will be here to morrow and for a while afterwards…
But as for that'Live like ti is your last daya" crap ... really,. You would spend one of the last minutes of your life arguing with Me on a website? That is truly sad.
We all live like we plan to be here tomorrow ... and want to be. The riders on that road ... maybe that same club had ridden that same stretch of road every Sunday morning for decades. I cannot imagine that a group of experienced cyclists would deliberately ride on a dangerous road, when there are so many roads…
.
Some people are not comfortable on any road, and only ride paths and trails…
Saying that these people were risking their lives because they were riding in Florida even, is crap. Not every square inch of Florida is dangerous ... and Any road where a car and a bike can travel at the same time presents a possibility of death for the cyclist.
Pretty simple. if cycling on the road is too scary, don't. if cycling on certain roads is to, don't...
Personally, I don't give a rotten fig for everyone else's paranoid rantings anyway… the Only guarantee is that I am never going to be safe. We All leave here, sooner or alter, one way or another.
I try to do things which make both today and the days i have remaining, worthwhile. But of course, i often fail.
Proof of that is the amount of time i spend here, trying to explain things to some of the people here.
But ... there are a few good ones too. I am grateful for them
It is not feasible to live each day is if it were the last. In that case, I wouldn't pay bills. I wouldn't buy food. I certainly wouldn't pay the mortgagef I seriously believed I was not going to be here tomorrow, i wouldn't go to work, for sure ... not sure what I could do in one day to give some final meaning to my life ... maybe call all the friends I can think of and say whatever I haven't said, maybe go for a walk with my wife .... maybe buy some cocaine and marijuana for after I had spent time with everyone .... then go play some loud music and get really ripped for the first time in a couple decades .... why not, at that point? I would be just a few minutes from death, not much left to lose by smoking some pot, right?
Whether we are honest enough to admit it or not, a simple examination of our actions shows that we all Assume we will be here to morrow and for a while afterwards…
But as for that'Live like ti is your last daya" crap ... really,. You would spend one of the last minutes of your life arguing with Me on a website? That is truly sad.
We all live like we plan to be here tomorrow ... and want to be. The riders on that road ... maybe that same club had ridden that same stretch of road every Sunday morning for decades. I cannot imagine that a group of experienced cyclists would deliberately ride on a dangerous road, when there are so many roads…
.
Some people are not comfortable on any road, and only ride paths and trails…
Saying that these people were risking their lives because they were riding in Florida even, is crap. Not every square inch of Florida is dangerous ... and Any road where a car and a bike can travel at the same time presents a possibility of death for the cyclist.
Pretty simple. if cycling on the road is too scary, don't. if cycling on certain roads is to, don't...
Personally, I don't give a rotten fig for everyone else's paranoid rantings anyway… the Only guarantee is that I am never going to be safe. We All leave here, sooner or alter, one way or another.
I try to do things which make both today and the days i have remaining, worthwhile. But of course, i often fail.
Proof of that is the amount of time i spend here, trying to explain things to some of the people here.
But ... there are a few good ones too. I am grateful for them
FWIW, I have posted / quoted about it myself, including just yesterday, "How do you find your motivation to ride?":
...For me cycle-commuting is the solution. However I have other (less strenuous) modes to get to work, so here are my motivations to ride, from the sublime to the ridiculous:
SUBLIME:
RIDICULOUS: To follow.
SUBLIME:
Ever contemplate your mortality on the road?
Actually, in one of my most serious contemplations of mortality, the Road served as a relief:
Actually, in one of my most serious contemplations of mortality, the Road served as a relief:
My magic moment when I realized what makes cycling fun (important) to me was at a lunch with two doctors about 20 years ago. We got to talking about the vicissitudes of life, like sudden death, or trival symptoms as harbingers of a serious disease.
We eventually came around to that old chestnut to live life to the fullest everyday.
As we were leaving, the surgeon, a marathon runner, said, "Well, any day with a run in it is a good day for me." I was already an avid cyclist and cycle commuter, and that clicked with me, any day with a ride in it is a good day for me.
We eventually came around to that old chestnut to live life to the fullest everyday.
As we were leaving, the surgeon, a marathon runner, said, "Well, any day with a run in it is a good day for me." I was already an avid cyclist and cycle commuter, and that clicked with me, any day with a ride in it is a good day for me.
I do a few moderately risky things for fun and the only way to enjoy them and not worry my loved ones too much is to be 1. insured, 2. good at them, 3. take recommended safety measures, 4. know my limits, and 5. then to put death and injury out of mind.
There's no better way to ruin a ride than to wonder whether each overtaking MV is going to bowling-pin you…
There's no better way to ruin a ride than to wonder whether each overtaking MV is going to bowling-pin you…
Probably my most dangerous cycling activity is winter cycle-commuting. Since you brought up mortality, two striking quotes about mortality that I read / heard in the 70’s have stuck with me to this day:
Do you think it's coming soon?
Will it be of comfort
Or the pain of a burning wound.
On a few threads on BF, I posted about how I live my ante-mortem life: [see above]
- By Ashleigh Brilliant, a cartoonist of Pot-Shots who wrote epigrams (“Brilliant Thoughts In 17 Words Or Less”), in particular to paraphrase,” I hope it’s a nice day, the day after I die.”
- The Moody Blues from “You and Me"
Do you think it's coming soon?
Will it be of comfort
Or the pain of a burning wound.
On a few threads on BF, I posted about how I live my ante-mortem life: [see above]
PS:
...How did that old Three Dog Night song go? "If ti's peace you find in dying, well, then let my time be near...
Just to set the record straight, those lyrics were from “When I Die,” by Blood Sweat and Tears. Add to my previous post:
Originally Posted by The Who
"My Generation
“People try to put us d-down (Talkin' 'bout my generation)
Just because we g-g-get around (Talkin' 'bout my generation)
Things they do look awful c-c-cold (Talkin' 'bout my generation)
I hope I die before I get old (Talkin' 'bout my generation).”
“People try to put us d-down (Talkin' 'bout my generation)
Just because we g-g-get around (Talkin' 'bout my generation)
Things they do look awful c-c-cold (Talkin' 'bout my generation)
I hope I die before I get old (Talkin' 'bout my generation).”
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-29-18 at 08:30 AM. Reason: added PS
11-29-18, 10:38 AM
#142
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Fact is, we All leave here, one way or another.
It is not feasible to live each day is if it were the last. In that case, I wouldn't pay bills. I wouldn't buy food. I certainly wouldn't pay the mortgage. If I seriously believed I was not going to be here tomorrow, i wouldn't go to work, for sure ... not sure what I could do in one day to give some final meaning to my life ... maybe call all the friends I can think of and say whatever I haven't said, maybe go for a walk with my wife .... maybe buy some cocaine and marijuana for after I had spent time with everyone .... then go play some loud music and get really ripped for the first time in a couple decades .... why not, at that point? I would be just a few minutes from death, not much left to lose by smoking some pot, right?
It is not feasible to live each day is if it were the last. In that case, I wouldn't pay bills. I wouldn't buy food. I certainly wouldn't pay the mortgage. If I seriously believed I was not going to be here tomorrow, i wouldn't go to work, for sure ... not sure what I could do in one day to give some final meaning to my life ... maybe call all the friends I can think of and say whatever I haven't said, maybe go for a walk with my wife .... maybe buy some cocaine and marijuana for after I had spent time with everyone .... then go play some loud music and get really ripped for the first time in a couple decades .... why not, at that point? I would be just a few minutes from death, not much left to lose by smoking some pot, right?
As a pasty white dude, I am pretty far removed genetically and culturally from our common African ancestry. And I live in a place where I can make almost any choice of how to live my life as I please. If I had to go through life believing that every bush I pass could have a hungry lion behind it (lions rarely eat people, just an example), or that my next trip to the river could easily be my last, I would lose my mind and not be able to function. Fatalism is a very good mental health defense mechanism. Fatalism is Denials' third cousin. And some people have more of both than others.
Lastly, given that our current environmental issues are mainly caused by too many people on the planet, I applaud and support any human effort to become more fatalistic and just go through life, guardian angle upon shoulder, not worrying about anything. Like I said, that mindset does have it's beauty. It's just not for me. If I can DO SOMETHING to help me get through the next day, or NOT do something, most times I will take the safer route.
Historically, my sensibilities are not for everybody.
Last edited by JoeyBike; 11-29-18 at 04:59 PM.
11-29-18, 02:46 PM
#144
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Wow...a lot of armchair accident investigators in this thread that think they have the answers without actually ever being involved in this accident.
Truth be told...I don't think cars and bikes should be riding together on the same road. It's an accident waiting to happen. Not if, but when.
While I do occasionally ride a road bike, I choose county roads that aren't busy or ride paved bike paths. I ride more mountain bike than road bike. No cars to hit me on the trails in the woods.
Truth be told...I don't think cars and bikes should be riding together on the same road. It's an accident waiting to happen. Not if, but when.
While I do occasionally ride a road bike, I choose county roads that aren't busy or ride paved bike paths. I ride more mountain bike than road bike. No cars to hit me on the trails in the woods.
11-29-18, 04:20 PM
#145
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Please feel free to enjoy the networks of trails others have built for you. And thanks for sharing your opinion.
Oh, also ... when you come up with some workable solutions which actually include cyclists, feel free to post that here.
11-29-18, 04:57 PM
#146
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Are we venturing out on that road because it is legal, or because it is the only road between the two points we want to connect... and aren't group rides done as a way to look bigger, to mitigate "not being seen?" And any road, ANY road designed primarily to be driven fast in an automobile, can be considered dangerous to cyclists... add in the potential for most motorists to speed, thus reducing their reaction time, and distraction, given over, due to the general comfort of the rolling couch so many take solace in, while forgetting they are actually "pilots" of dangerous multi-ton speeding vehicles.
There is no real safety on roads shared with cars... the dumbest motorist can make the most unpredictable move, at any time.
There is no real safety on roads shared with cars... the dumbest motorist can make the most unpredictable move, at any time.
11-29-18, 05:04 PM
#147
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Peter Hathaway Capstick was a famous wildlife manager and big game guide in Africa, as well as a talented author who wrote several books and countless magazine articles about Africa and it's people. Capstick coined a term called "African Fatalism", in order to explain why: "... a woman goes down to the river to collect drinking water at the exact same spot where her sister was eaten by a crocodile the day before". Obviously that part of Africa is a place full of wild animals, few medical services, and no way for the inhabitants to alter their environment substantially enough or in a practical manner to make much of a difference. So, over eons of such conditions the people there have developed a "We all leave here one way or another" mindset. It is beautiful to me and extremely practical in that setting.
As a pasty white dude, I am pretty far removed genetically and culturally from our common African ancestry. And I live in a place where I can make almost any choice of how to live my life as I please. If I had to go through life believing that every bush I pass could have a hungry lion behind it (lions rarely eat people, just an example), or that my next trip to the river could easily be my last, I would lose my mind and not be able to function. Fatalism is a very good mental health defense mechanism. Fatalism is Denials' third cousin. And some people have more of both than others.
Lastly, given that our current environmental issues are mainly caused by too many people on the planet, I applaud and support any human effort to become more fatalistic and just go through life, guardian angle upon shoulder, not worrying about anything. Like I said, that mindset does have it's beauty. It's just not for me. If I can DO SOMETHING to help me get through the next day, or NOT do something, most times I will take the safer route.
Historically, my sensibilities are not for everybody.
As a pasty white dude, I am pretty far removed genetically and culturally from our common African ancestry. And I live in a place where I can make almost any choice of how to live my life as I please. If I had to go through life believing that every bush I pass could have a hungry lion behind it (lions rarely eat people, just an example), or that my next trip to the river could easily be my last, I would lose my mind and not be able to function. Fatalism is a very good mental health defense mechanism. Fatalism is Denials' third cousin. And some people have more of both than others.
Lastly, given that our current environmental issues are mainly caused by too many people on the planet, I applaud and support any human effort to become more fatalistic and just go through life, guardian angle upon shoulder, not worrying about anything. Like I said, that mindset does have it's beauty. It's just not for me. If I can DO SOMETHING to help me get through the next day, or NOT do something, most times I will take the safer route.
Historically, my sensibilities are not for everybody.
Capstick's writings are a great read for anyone. God he makes me laugh. I started with Death in The Long Grass. It hooked me, and I have read most of his books. I have reused the story about fatalism a number of times before.
11-29-18, 05:06 PM
#148
For The Fun of It
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Wow...a lot of armchair accident investigators in this thread that think they have the answers without actually ever being involved in this accident.
Truth be told...I don't think cars and bikes should be riding together on the same road. It's an accident waiting to happen. Not if, but when.
While I do occasionally ride a road bike, I choose county roads that aren't busy or ride paved bike paths. I ride more mountain bike than road bike. No cars to hit me on the trails in the woods.
Truth be told...I don't think cars and bikes should be riding together on the same road. It's an accident waiting to happen. Not if, but when.
While I do occasionally ride a road bike, I choose county roads that aren't busy or ride paved bike paths. I ride more mountain bike than road bike. No cars to hit me on the trails in the woods.
11-29-18, 05:08 PM
#149
genec
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There are all sorts of varying degrees of safety... it's too back that cyclists have to be held responsible for what drivers are NOT doing.
11-29-18, 05:13 PM
#150
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There's no real safety in any activity. It's all about mitigating the risk to a level that is acceptable to the participant
Probably my most dangerous cycling activity is winter cycle-commuting…
When does Hardcore become Stupid?
Hardcore becomes stupid when it becomes dangerous.
Hardcore becomes stupid when anything going wrong becomes a safety problem …
Hardcore becomes stupid when minor errors in judgment become safety issues…
In each case, it's not just the weather [or other conditions] that makes it hardcore or stupid, it's the degree of preparation and knowledge used in dealing with the weather [or those conditions] .
Hardcore becomes stupid when it becomes dangerous.
Hardcore becomes stupid when anything going wrong becomes a safety problem …
Hardcore becomes stupid when minor errors in judgment become safety issues…
In each case, it's not just the weather [or other conditions] that makes it hardcore or stupid, it's the degree of preparation and knowledge used in dealing with the weather [or those conditions] .
Last edited by Jim from Boston; 11-29-18 at 05:16 PM. Reason: added quote by genec