cat0020

TREK getting into e-moped business:

https://electrek.co/2023/08/11/trek-...ctra-ponto-go/


https://www.trekbikes.com/us/en_US/b...5013_d327e27f5

fooferdoggie 

whats the point everyone and their dog makes them.

cat0020

If you don't see the point, you don't have to post here; maybe someone else could be interested.

fooferdoggie 

and maybe not. they waited way too late for this market. ebike sales are dropping rapidly. it does have a torque sensor but these bikes dont lend themselves to peddling.

shelbyfv

I think it's pretty cool and a smart move. 60 mile range, throttle, plus the ergonomics will suit most prospective buyers better than the bike-ish set ups. Brakes lights and turn signals just make sense.

cat0020

Maybe not to you, but I still do plenty of PEDALING when I ride my e-moped.
TREK may be late the the market, but if a big company like TREK is invested their resources to produce e-mopeds,
maybe their business office think there is plenty of market for TREK to tap into with their dealer base able to provide assembly & services.
That's an advantage over the other direct-to-consumer e-mopeds.

fooferdoggie 

most people I see riding them dont peddle. who knows? bike companies are having huge sales because sales are drying up.
but at least this bike is serviceable and you wont have to worry about getting parts.

cat0020

If you call yourself a cyclist, please know the difference between pedal & peddle.

fooferdoggie 

there you go find the important things in a post.

Robert C

Keep in mind that the definition of "Moped" varies by state. While I am sure you did your research to determine that these fall under the definition of "Moped" in your state, it may not be the same for residents of other states. You should also be aware that mopeds generally have licensing and insurance requirements VIN numbers, titles, certificates of origin and the like, again depending on the actual state.

I am sure that you did your research. There is no way you would use the word "moped" to describe something that is not a moped.

Of course, the article is quite clear that this is an eBike:
Further, on the Trek site, they do not market it as a Moped. Yes, I realize that the title of the article does use the word, "Moped." However, it falls on the reader to read beyond the title.

shelbyfv

Interesting! I've always heard it used as a generic term for something with both a motor and pedals. Gonna have to Google and catch up on that.

cat0020

Title of the article is:
Trek launches its first throttle-controlled electric moped, fits two riders.

Regardless of legal designation, two wheels, electric motor, functional pedals that propel the bike; that's close enough.

2old

You're correct. In CA and more than half the US, the Class system defines bicycles. Basically there are three classes, and these are considered the same as bicycles BY LAW: 750w max power, and Class 1: 20 mph max PAS only, Class 2: 20 mph PAS or throttle and Class 3: 28 mph PAS only. Mopeds were mostly governed out of existence here.

2old

In CA, you need to be 16, have a motorcycle driver's license, have a license plate, as well as other considerations to ride a moped. They were legislated out of existence mostly.

cat0020

Because majority of the world should go by the definition of moped or ebike in CA and follow the laws CA legislation rule for the roads.

shelbyfv

Trek says these are class 3 but they also have a throttle up to 20 mph. Throttles really help smooth starts, especially useful in traffic. It seems silly that they aren't standard on all motor bikes.

unterhausen

California has the standard definitions for I,II,III ebikes. They are somewhat unusual in that they still have a law about mopeds. I think in other states they are just electric motorcycles. In fact, I'm not sure there is a distinction between mopeds and motorcycles in California law either.

Robert C

That is why I sometimes pop into these threads and make comments like that, and they are made in good spirits; I am glad you took it as such.

We, and by that I mean the cycling community, need to be careful in the use of the word "moped." As was pointed out, mopeds were all but legislated out of existence. At that point, the states realized they had made a bit of a mistake, but the damage was done, the moped boom was over.

I realize a lot here say various forms of "good riddance." After all, the mopeds of the moped boom in the 70s' and early 80s' were almost universally two-stroke engines, with their characteristic trail of blue smoke. However, it is reasonable to assume that, like so many other small motors, if their popularity had not been squashed by legislative action, they would have evolved into cleaner offerings. We can only guess, as it never happened. California started, and then other states followed, treating mopeds as a special case of motorcycles instead of a special case of bicycles; my moped had a bicycle license instead of a motor vehicle license.

With that, mopeds were over. Yes, there are still mopeds. There are even forums devoted to them. However, it is nothing like the moped boom.

Still, some say "good riddance" because they envision people riding their push-bikes(definition at the bottom) rather than assisted, or in the case of mopeds, motorized, conveyances. However, we all know the truth, people did not move from mopeds to push-bikes in any large numbers, they returned to driving cars. In my case, I got a regular motorcycle, which had significantly better performance.

We still live with the vestiges of moped regulations with our eBikes. It explains where the, seemingly arbitrary, 28mph limit comes from. Even during the moped boom, mopeds were generally limited to a maximum speed of 30mph. It makes sense that a relatively lightly regulated conveyance, of eBikes, would not be permitted the same performance envelope of much more strictly regulated conveyances. Right or wrong, that stuck us with 28mph.

Ultimately, I fear, and expect, that Ebikes will go the way of the moped. They will eventually be so strictly regulated that they no longer make practical sense as a practical conveyance. Some, for a wide variety of reasons, wish to hurry the demise of the eBike. Others, like myself, want to slow, or halt, the demise of the eBike.

One thing we can do is to stop referring to eBikes, with their lower regulatory hurdle, as mopeds, with their higher regulatory hurdle.

2old

I don't know all the CA rules, but mopeds and mc's differ in that you don't need insurance for mopeds and only need to get the license plate once (not a yearly cost).

Robert C

Yes, in California they realized that they had effectively destroyed a class of vehicles that were reducing congestion by presenting a real alternative to driving everywhere in private automobiles. As such, a lot of the regulations were backed away from, but it was too late, they had already done the damage.

One example is that they made it very easy to get a moped license plate. But that was after. I looked up a few other states where I had lived while writing this. Half of them still require motorcycle driver's licenses to operate a moped. If a person is going to go through that much trouble, they are going to get a motorcycle, not a moped (yes, there are always a small number of exceptions. As a person who took part in the moped boom, I assure you that the one or two mopeds seen in a year do not compare to the ubiquity of the moped in those peak years. But yes, there has been a relaxation of the anti-moped laws.

My concern remains that the same will happen to the eBikes.

2old

I have a friend who had a thriving moped business that went up in smoke. Welcome back to the forum, and I wish you dropped by more frequently.

cat0020

What was the business name? Where was it located?
How long ago did the business thrive and what was the duration?
What was the volume of the business to be considered "thriving"?

Education is more important than legislation.
People need to be educated of the rules of the road or wherever they ride their bikes.
People need to be educated the danger to themselves and others when they operate their bike, ebikes, e-scooter, e-mopeds or any other vehicle on public roads.

Personally, I think licensing is not the right approach.
In many countries around the world, education at schools about traffic safety & laws are taught from childhood all the way to high school.
Cycling is a major part of that education that should be taught like a life long skill that everyone should know, as swimming.. or maybe even math.
I feel that in America, most drivers think bicycles & motorcycles don't belong on public roads, which is a mentality that's been imbedded across decades of car culture and cheap oil in America.

Meanwhile, parents should also be held accountable when their child is caught breaking traffic laws, causing accidents on high-seed e-bikes.
If they can afford high cost, high speed e-bikes to for their children, they can also afford higher (x5 or x10) auto insurance premiums.

Regardless of laws & rules or restrictions on vehicles, people who want to ride fast will always find ways to do it, because it is fun.
But at least when they are educated of the danger they present to themselves & others; maybe they would re-evaluate before taking too much risk (or breaking too many laws) while riding.

cat0020

https://electrek.co/2023/09/11/pave-...he-blockchain/

CrimsonEclipse

Take a good look at the trek eBike.
Now take off the motor and batteries.

Would you normally ride this bike, unpowered, for any considerable distance?
If not, then it isn't a bike.

It's a motorcycle with pedals and the pedals are vestigial limbs to comply with old timey laws.

cat0020

Same applies to any e-bike, do you have anything to contribute to the topic?
If it's got two wheels and functional pedals, it's a bike.

Regardless of the laws, regulations or limits set from factory, there are those who will always want to go faster than the machine is designated or regulated to do so.
Do you comply to speed limits ALL THE TIME while on public roads? I know I don't and I know most people don't, regardless what vehicle they operate.