shoota 

https://www.midsouthgravel.com/

Cpn_Dunsel

Or an actual gravel company.

wsteve464

https://www.velonews.com/2019/12/new...d-south_503489

mstateglfr 

Cant say I think of Oklahoma when I hear or say 'midsouth'. Jackson TN? Sure.
Southaven MS? Absolutely.

Stillwater OK? Not one that stands out.

Anyways, it's cool that the organizers chose to change the name of a well known event in an effort to respect local history.

shoota 

Yeah. Two things on that. I grew up here and 1) no one thinks about the actual Land Run very much and 2) I don't know where the organizers got the idea that Stillwater is in the Mid-South. My whole family has lived here for decades and literally none of us had even heard the term "mid-south". It's a bizarre missed opportunity to call the race something that actually pertains to the area. You know..like Red Dirt...

Marcus_Ti

I do have to roll my eyes a bit a bit...that it took them a few years to know their own local history. Then again that is the history nerd in me.

shoota 

Well, to be fair they aren't from here and schools don't really teach history anymore anyway. That, and millennials are not interested in history.

mstateglfr 

Red Dirt Ramble.
Rain Follows the Plow 100. <---too soon still?
Pistol Pete's Dirty 100.


In the explanation, the organizers admit they werent aware when they first moved to OK and started(named) the race, but have since learned. I certainly didnt realize 'Land Run' referred to the land rush(never really gave it any thought) and was a controversial historical term, but I am not from there. If it were named something obviously inappropriate like the Trail of Tears 100, then yeah there would be no excuse for the organizers to not know and probably no forgiveness.

The tough part is that a lot of terms which are historical to that state will hold controversial meaning. OU's slogan is rooted in the land rush, for example. Its kinda inevitable when the state was created in the way it was created.




I dont disagree with what you say, I just chuckled since you are in the generation you complained about.
History is brutal to teach in school, I think. There is just so much of it- too much to cover in k-12 without cutting into the ever important STEM / STEAM / STREAM curriculum. History isnt on ACT or SAT, which partly highlights how little its valued. There is just so much of it and most history plays off other events to the point that you cant superficially learn and understand history- it requires deep dives. That pretty much eliminates making it worth learning until kids are teens.

shoota 

I'm glad I'm not the only one who saw the irony in quoting an OU professor who is teaching us about the horrible history of the land run of 1889 while his employer's mascot is literally the white settlers of that event (who were cheaters on top of it).

FlashBazbo

The new name is generic. But . . . it is as inoffensive as any name can ever be. And let's face it, in our easily offended times, pablum is often too spicy. Anything evoking anything would have been offensive to somebody.

But as for the real land run? It was just thousands of people who couldn't WAIT to get out of Kansas. Can you blame them for that? (No, you can't.)

But what's next? I've ALWAYS thought "Dirty Kanza" was pretty racially insensitive. But I'm not a member of the Kanza tribe. I'm not going to get offended on their behalf.

shoota 

Ok I have some news. We should be thinking of "Mid South" as more of a geographical locale than a cultural locale. The name change has done some really cool and positive things and I'm pretty stoked for March to see it play out in real life.

mstateglfr 

it is a geographic locale.
Its above the deep south.

Cairo il on the North, SEMO, NE and E AR, N MS, NW AL, and western TN.

That's how I learned it, but geographic identity is hardly ever exact and like gravel bikes, there is often a lot of gray area and crossover.

Important thing is that important positive changes come from a rebranding. So besides being culturally more sensitive(no small feat), what else has this change brought?

shoota 

Ah, correct. I didn't say that right, let me try again. This race was not named after a pre-defined locale called the Mid-South. Literally no one here has ever heard of it. It will make more sense as we get closer to March, but the long and short of it is that this was a name change for a good reason and the new name will be OK in time. Nothing about the race has changed one bit. Except that this year will be even bigger than last.

FlashBazbo

I thought there was already Mid-South race in Tennessee, but I can't find a current website. In Tennessee, Tennessee is considered mid-south. Alabama / Mississippi, Georgia are deep south. Kentucky and Virginia are south. And it seems 30% of the small businesses in Tennessee have "Mid South" somewhere in the name.

But then, the Mid South Athletic Conference is made up of schools in Kentucky, Georgia, Florida, and Tennessee -- primarily Kentucky.

I'm an Oklahoma native -- an Okie. When I was growing up, we considered ourselves "southern." But now, having lived in multiple states outside Oklahoma, I know that most people consider it midwestern. (But "Midwestern" is a tag that would have made us a little nauseous, back in the day. I still don't really conceive of Oklahoma as being midwestern.)

Calling it the Midwestern 100 would have offended more people than Mid-South does. So I guess, even if it is confusing, it fulfills the purpose.

shoota 

Yep, you get it. When District started hashtagging mid south 5 years ago they didn't even know Mid South was an actual geographical region, it's that little known in these parts. So this new name has nothing to do with the actual Mid South region either. Give it one year and all this will be a distant memory I'm guessing.

Marcus_Ti

Or caused more confusion....people in Illinois, Indiana, and Ohio call themselves "midwest" even though they're barely off the Eastern seaboard. Annoys those of us actually in the middle country and middle-west.

FlashBazbo

First . . . realize that I don't want to start any trouble for Dirty Kanza. But Dirty Kanza (Kanza is the name of an Indian tribe) seems to be much more fraught with genuine offense than "Land Run" ever was. (There have been multiple land runs over the centuries, not all of which would be considered politically incorrect. But just one Kanza tribe -- the arms dealers of the central plains. And I know of no Kanza Indians involved in the race itself.) Will this ramp up the pressure to change the name of Dirty Kanza?

shoota 

Wouldn't surprise me one bit. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't already getting pressure. If there's one thing I've learned through all this is that I don't envy race directors. They're screwed if they do, screwed if they don't. There's no way to make everyone happy.

mstateglfr 

I'll absolutely admit that I had no idea the dirty kanza was named after a tribe.
I figured it has 'dirty' because its ridden on dirt/gravel and you get dirty. And 'kanza' was for Kansas.

Even now knowing there was/is a kanza tribe, it still seems like a stretch to think the 'dirty' part of the name is calling the tribe dirty.

The state of Kansas is named after the tribe, Arkansas is named after a tribe(same?), Illinois is named after a tribe, and iowa is named after a tribe.

Taking the word 'dirty' and using it for a gravel race(where you get dirty) and then taking a word based on the historical location the ride is ridden is tough to declare wrong.
Oddly, I see this as acceptable and possibly different from naming a race after an event in history where a group of people basically overtake the lands of others in one day.

If there were a 'Dirty Ayoua', would it be calling the Ioway tribe dirty, or would it be named after what happens in a gravel race(get dirty) and be a historical reference to the french spelling of a local Sioux tribe in the region where the race is ridden?

I'm not sure where the appropriateness of a name ends. States are named after tribes and that's accepted. Thru history, names of towns, roads, rivers, etc are named after those who once occupied the lands(native american all over, French down south, Spanish out west, etc). Should all this change or is it all appropriate to recognize what was once in the area/region?

mstateglfr 

the top 2/3 of Illinois is totally midwest. Central timezone and above the midsouth. It could be considered part of the great lakes states too, as a subcategory.

If you live north of the 38th parallel(ain't just for Korean hostory!) and in the central timezone, you are in the midwest. KISS.

And anyone in western ks, ne, or dakotas can claim midwestern, but are really the plains(as well as eastern parts of those states).


Ok I'll stop nerding out.

shoota 

You aren't the only one that has asked that exact same question and the answer is.. it's a case by case basis. In the case of Land Run 100 the difference is that the race is named after an EVENT, not a people group. And that event is widely viewed as the culmination and representation of years of abuse, lies, stealing, and murdering of a people group. Many of whom are still reeling from those events that only happened a generation or two ago. Couple that with the fact the Land Run (100) was started with a literal cannon boom to set the predominately white masses out into the land and hopefully you can see why the Natives had a serious problem with it. Dirty Kanza is relatively safe because it's named after a region (derived from a tribe), and, yes, it's "dirty" because of the actual dirt. Anyway, hopefully that helps explain the differences between the two, and why we are where we are.