Elvo

Very long but good read on how one dude, who performed exceptionally in many areas of his life, tried to take his exceptionalism to cycling (downhill KOM's in particular):

Everyone agrees that when Kim Flint crashed, he was chasing a record on Strava, the social fitness site that has rewritten the etiquette of cycling and shattered its traditions, transformed countless lives for the better, and fostered as many friendships (and rivalries). What almost no one seems to fully comprehend is exactly who—or what—caused Flint’s death.

https://www.bicycling.com/news/featur...files?page=0,0

edit:

TLDR Summary:
Kim Flint is a very successful and driven dude. Discovers cycling and Strava and tries to take uphill KOM's. Realizes its an exercise in futility and focuses on downhill KOM's. Tragedy ensues.

zvez

Thought it was very interesting, I just recently joined strava. I'm not sure ANY blame can be leveled at strava in this case, and of course the judge threw it out immediately.

It's like anything tho. if you carry it to extremes it can bite you. I view at as a tool to become a better rider, as I've little interest in competing with anyone but myself.

Nagrom_

Jesus, that is unnecessarily long.

Netazah

Sorry but that article tl/dr. I have to say though, based on the first page this guy seemed like an intense dude who liked to take risks. Hard to imagine that Strava was the cause and not that beautiful looking descent in the fog. Not to say that Strava hasn't changed cycling a bit, I definitely push it harder than I might otherwise in pursuit of the holy KOM but my safety is my own responsibility. My two cents.

Dudelsack 

Strava can be translated numerically into 666.

memebag

Absolutely. But what about the kid in the car Kim Flint hit? Or what about Sutchi Hui, the 71 year old man killed by Chris Bucchere? Our responsibility extends past ourselves. Biking is fun, but it isn't worth killing anyone over.

Netazah

Absolutely correct, sorry I meant my safety and those that I could potentially injure. Just like a car, 'my safety' includes not hurting anyone else.

rpenmanparker 

Interesting that the responses so far seem to focus more on Strava's culpability or lack thereof and not on the individuals' reprehensible behavior. Forget about whether Strava was to blame. That is only of interest to the families affected by the tragedies and people needing to lay off the blame that rightly should land on themselves. Concentrate on the real question: what are you going to do about the a$$hats who can't control their need for speed no matter who gets hurt?

zvez

the focus is on strava as that was the point of the original posters thread or at least seemed to me.

I think most anyone will agree the guys behavior was reckless and stupid, but it was HIS fault, not an online website. I ride sportbikes as well so I'm well versed on all the asshats out there in cars, on bikes, on bicycles. If you wanna go fast be it bike or mc or car, take it to the track.

rpenmanparker 

Question is this: Maybe Strava hasn't shared culpability up to this point, but once a behavioral pattern (reckless speeding on a bike) is demonstrated in response to a stimulus (Strava), can we excuse forever the continuation of the stimulus? So giving them the benefit of the doubt, the Strava folks could not "reasonably" foresee the effect that their website would cause and can't be blamed for that, BUT do they continue to get a pass once the cause and effect have been observed multiple times? At some point does Strava have to share the blame? No opinion being expressed here, just throwing out the question for discussion.

I will freely admit this is somewhat, but not exactly like asking whether gun store owners can be blamed for the murders committed with the guns they sold since the cause-effect relationship is well established.

Thoughts? Anyone?

on the path

Unless I'm wrong, the users create the segments, and Strava removes the segments upon request. It would be impossible for Strava to stay ahead of those that would create "more dangerous" segments. Just a thought..

rpenmanparker 

Yes, but you are assuming that Strava necessarily must exist. That is not true. It could just disappear and so would the problem. Not that I think that is desirable. Just sayin'.

on the path

I'm not assuming Strava must exist. But free speech definitely exists, and chances are that's how Strava would defend itself, by siting the first amendment.

cyclezen

darwin

rpenmanparker 

CITING the First Amendment as a defense is rather weak as exemplified by the screaming, "Fire!" in a movie theater example. There are many public interest exceptions to the First Amendment protection of "free speech".

on the path

I wouldn't be so sure of yourself. The first amendment is pretty powerful, and it's first for good reason. I'm pretty sure it's legal to tell someone to kill themselves, and even how to do it. Strava certainly hasn't done anything of the kind that I'm aware of.

Obviously, this is a legal debate. I'm not a lawyer, but at times people have suggested I'd make a good one. I've been having issues with an occasional employer that kept writing me bad checks for services rendered. There was a contractor between me and the employer and the contractor was completely ineffective at getting the employer to respond. Today I wrote a very convincing email to the employer, worded as a lawyer would have. The employer phoned me within 12 minutes of me sending the email, and less than 20 minutes after that I had cash in my hand.

But back to the topic, I'm still reading the article. I find it very engaging..

rpenmanparker 

Look into the bullying/suicide case now in the news. Bullys have been arrested. But you are right about the article being engaging.

rebel1916

It amazes me how much people dislike Strava. It's just a tool fellas.

MikeM21

How can you make this statement? Would dangerous biking disappear? I don't think so.

on the path

I'm not sure of the particular case of which you speak. Repeated harassment of an individual seems to be quite different from what I was talking about.


I found the article very interesting. Lots of info about social media, the way our brains deal with stimuli from electronic devices, the culture of competition in the modern world, the legal bounds of online user agreements, and, of course, a study of the present day elite cycling culture. It will serve to keep me a bit cautious. I used to let the bike run out on any descent where I could see far enough down the road. Lately I usually ride the brakes. Oh, and I like Strava. I've been using it for about 2 months.

cyclezen

engaging? 8 billion stories on the Naked Planet...
not counting the other inhabitants...
story was blah, blah, blah
guy was a tool

strava = pet rock

tough question is : being a 41 cyclist, how can you resist from becoming a tool?

sbxx1985 

I see.

rebel1916

Too cooooooool fer school.

on the path

Oh, I don't know. I like to read something that has substance. I like to read well written, well researched articles that are based on an activity (cycling) that I love and am deeply involved with, and transcend the original topic and then discuss how it relates more generally to modern culture. What do you like to read??

Brian Ratliff

If you are going to go that route, you'll have to ruminate on the mechanisms available for someone to make Strava NOT exist. Obviously, Strava exists and it exists because a private citizen of the United States of America decided to make it exist. To make Strava disappear, there would have to be a mechanism to force Stava to disappear. Otherwise, this is all a moot line of thought.