slims_s

I'm in the process of selecting the parts for my new "budget" wheelset. Buenos Aires is pancake flat but i'm planning to do some hilly rides during the year, so I'm interested in getting a light wheelset, without sacrificing durability (that's my main interest, i broke a FRONT spoke in my current heavy-ass wheelset when going over a small bump at speed, 32h 3x both wheels, clearly the builder had absolutely no idea of what he was doing, they came used with the bike). I'm 135lbs, I won't be hopping curbs with them but some roads around here are pretty bad and sometimes the bumps/potholes are unavoidable.

What I have decided so far:

- Rims: Velocity A23 - 426g (I want to try the 23mm width)
- Front Hub: BikeHubStore SuperLight 79 - 79g
- Rear Hub: BikeHubStore SuperLight - 211g

My doubts come to the spokes and spoke count. I'm currently leaning towards 24 spokes 2x in the front, 28 spokes 2x in the back, and use Sapim Race or DT Competitions spokes (2.0/1.8/2.0).
I think 28/32 (2x/3x) will be overkill and can't convince myself of any advantages of using thinner spokes (DT Revolutions or Sapim Laser).
The build will be done by a local wheelbuilder (he's good at it) or by myself (have built a wheelset already for my fiancee's bike), haven't decided it yet.

mihlbach

You are light. If I were you I would go with 24/28, but use 2.0/1.5/2.0 spokes (e.g. Sapim laser).

mihlbach

Or you could go just skip all the trouble and order these....https://www.novemberbicycles.com/fsw-23/

eippo1

I have 2 sets of wheels using those hubs (except for the rear of one w/ powertap). Good stuff. I used Kinlin rims on mine. Thinner spokes are fine if you're not the one building the wheel. Otherwise, they aren't worth it and are a pain in the arse with windup. My heavier wheelset w/ the powertap uses Competition spokes while the lighter set uses Revolution spokes. A friend built the set w/ revolutions and I did the front wheel for the competition set.

mihlbach

Thats why bladed spokes are such a pleasure to build with. You can see the windup and prevent it.

canam73

2 suggestions:

Consider the "Wide" version of the front hub. Same weight, $10 more. Laterally stronger wheel.

On the rear use Lasers on the NDS and Race on the DS (or the DT equivelents). The BHS rear has a larger than average difference between flange offsets and this will help get the NDS spoke tension higher.

slims_s

I've read the recommendation for the Wide version somewhere else too. Using thinner spokes in the rear NDS spokes makes sense too.

I think I'll go with:

- Front Rim: Velocity A23 - 24h - 426g
- Front Hub: BikeHubStore SuperLight Wide - 24h - 78g
- Front Spokes: Sapim Race 2x - 5.92g x 24

- Rear Rim: Velocity A23 - 28h - 426g
- Rear Hub: BikeHubStore SuperLight - 28h - 211g
- Rear Spokes (NDS): Sapim Laser 2x - 4.5g x 14
- Rear Spokes (DS): Sapim Race 2x - 5.92g x 14

That topped off with some Ti skewers from BHS and some Velox Cloth tape, should come up nice Thanks for the suggestions

mihlbach

The thicker spokes on the RDS is a good spoking strategy. But there's no reason for not using the thinner spokes on the front wheel.

AEO

I'm 130lbs and I use 20/24 and 24/24 with with XR-270 rims and I'm pretty sure the A23 has a similar strength to the XR-270.

but it never hurts to have more spokes.

ericm979

I'd use the Race spokes on the DS and Lasers elsewhere. Preventing or reducing spoke twist is not that hard. You can use a small smooth jaw pliers or you can turn the spoke wrench farther and then turn it back.

I built a set of XR270s on the BHS hubs 20f/28r with Lasers except Race on the DS. I've used the rear for experiments in DS lacing patterns, trying 2x heads in, standard 2x, and 1x heads in. The heads in lacing increases the bracing angle and thus the lateral stiffness. That's important to me as I tend to break rear wheels due not to weight (I'm 144 lbs) but riding style when I stand on climbs, which I do often. 2x heads in was great for stiffness but my derailleur cage just touched the spokes when riding up hill in the large cog. 1x heads in is still better than 2x regular as far as stiffness goes.

The DS flange spacing is not all that awful compared to other hubs, so unless you know you have a problem like I do its probably better to just do it 2x regular.

I used the ultralight front hub and laced it radial heads out. It feels a little flexy compared to some of my other wheels but it doesn't affect the bike's handling.

slims_s

I ended up building this wheelset 6 months later, but i built them Final build was:

Front 24H 2x
Rear 28H 2x
Rims: BHS C472w
Front Hub: Novatec A291SB-SL
Rear Hub: Novatec F482SB-SL (it gave a lower tension difference between DS/NDS than the BHS one, something like 43% vs 50%, due to having its flanges more widely spaced)
Spokes: Sapim Laser Front and rear NDS, Sapim Race rear DS, black
Nipples: Sapim Brass Nipples, black
Rim Tape: Velox 21mm

Got the Hubs from BDop and everything else from BHS. Really satisified with both. Final cost with shipping to Argentina ended up being less than 400 dollars. I'll test them and snap a few pictures tomorrow. Weight from my crappy luggage scale is 1600g for the set, no skewers, with rim tape, i think it's a little less, but i don't really care

canam73

Since this thread started I built almost the identical set for both myself and my brother. Same rims and spoke pattern. I went with Sapim Race all around because they are meant to be training sets so weight wasn't a concern. I stuck with the BHS Wide on the fronts but found a different rear import hub on ebay that had geometry more like the Novatec.

They are very stiff for the weight and since I've had them they have gotten the bulk of my mileage.

Drew Eckhardt 

Thinner spokes are trivial to deal with. Put a tape flag on the spoke (front) or two (rear) following the valve hole and watch the amount of windup you're getting so you can compensate for what's happening in each spoke group at its current tension level. Except in improperly lubricated used wheels where you have corrosion problems with tight nipples that aren't present in new wheels you won't have any problems. Other people like a Sharpie dot on each spoke.

If you're going to be a weight weenie it'd be stupid to do anything else - there's 80 grams separating 2.0/1.8 and 2.0/1.5 spokes in a 28/24 wheel set with essentially no price difference.

The same holds for alloy nipples which will save 36g in that wheelset and cost about $7 (at $13/box of 100). Proper lubrication (I like anti-seize on both spoke threads and in rim sockets applied with an acid brush with half its bristle length cut off) will keep them turning and reusable when you replace the rim, even ten years later. Proper spoke length (past the bottom of the slot) will keep them from breaking (they don't work as spoke extenders).

I use both because

1. I can.

2. The light spokes theoretically build a more durable wheel because the rim can deflect inward more from a bump before the spokes go slack leaving it unsupported laterally at which point it can shift sideways with the wheel collapsing as tension is restored.

This ignores what you're actually getting as a gram counter which may or may not matter. When you do the arithmetic you find that you're looking at seconds saved for each hour of climbing you do, which is only significant when you'll be racing, are otherwise competitive, are built for climbing (as suggested by weighing about 2 pounds per inch of height or 140 pounds for the average 5'10" guy), and are going to end up off-the-front with a chasing Peleton. Ex: 140 pound rider, 15 pound bike, 70.3kg. 116g / 70,300g = 5.9 seconds for this wheel build. The effects are proportionally lower for heavier rider + bike combinations.