New to clipless pedals
08-12-18, 05:43 PM
#26
Senior Member
I’m always amazed at the number of people that fall with clipless pedals. I’ve been riding them since the very first ones were available and never had a problem. But before that, I rode with actual cleats and toe clips where it was impossible to get out unless you released the strap. My take away from that was that I had to learn to track stand or I would fall over sometimes (like at stoplights). I now consider being able to do a relatively short trackstand to be an essential cycling skill but I’d doubt that 90% of cyclists can do one even though it’s not hard. I haven’t fallen because of clipless pedals in decades as a result.
https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/artic...ckstand-45574/
Getting out of clipless pedals is something that any reasonably coordinated person can do without additional training given normal coordination. If you don’t have good coordination, but you have good bike handling skills and can do a track stand, then you’ll also not fall. I think the takeaway from all of this is that most people who have this problem either lack in coordination and/or bike handling skills. If you are an uncoordinated person (and they always know who they are) AND you don’t have good bike handling skills, then it’s probably best to avoid clipless pedals until one or both of those conditions are changed.
Anyhow, my $0.02.
https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/artic...ckstand-45574/
Getting out of clipless pedals is something that any reasonably coordinated person can do without additional training given normal coordination. If you don’t have good coordination, but you have good bike handling skills and can do a track stand, then you’ll also not fall. I think the takeaway from all of this is that most people who have this problem either lack in coordination and/or bike handling skills. If you are an uncoordinated person (and they always know who they are) AND you don’t have good bike handling skills, then it’s probably best to avoid clipless pedals until one or both of those conditions are changed.
Anyhow, my $0.02.
08-13-18, 05:18 AM
#27
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I’m always amazed at the number of people that fall with clipless pedals. I’ve been riding them since the very first ones were available and never had a problem. But before that, I rode with actual cleats and toe clips where it was impossible to get out unless you released the strap. My take away from that was that I had to learn to track stand or I would fall over sometimes (like at stoplights). I now consider being able to do a relatively short trackstand to be an essential cycling skill but I’d doubt that 90% of cyclists can do one even though it’s not hard. I haven’t fallen because of clipless pedals in decades as a result.
https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/artic...ckstand-45574/
Getting out of clipless pedals is something that any reasonably coordinated person can do without additional training given normal coordination. If you don’t have good coordination, but you have good bike handling skills and can do a track stand, then you’ll also not fall. I think the takeaway from all of this is that most people who have this problem either lack in coordination and/or bike handling skills. If you are an uncoordinated person (and they always know who they are) AND you don’t have good bike handling skills, then it’s probably best to avoid clipless pedals until one or both of those conditions are changed.
Anyhow, my $0.02.
https://www.bikeradar.com/gear/artic...ckstand-45574/
Getting out of clipless pedals is something that any reasonably coordinated person can do without additional training given normal coordination. If you don’t have good coordination, but you have good bike handling skills and can do a track stand, then you’ll also not fall. I think the takeaway from all of this is that most people who have this problem either lack in coordination and/or bike handling skills. If you are an uncoordinated person (and they always know who they are) AND you don’t have good bike handling skills, then it’s probably best to avoid clipless pedals until one or both of those conditions are changed.
Anyhow, my $0.02.
08-13-18, 05:59 AM
#28
Senior Member
You can adjust the tension and I have my commuting pedals at almost the minimum - they just slip on and off with almost no effort. I've never accidently unclipped even pushing it hard up hills.
08-13-18, 11:41 AM
#29
Senior Member
But the fact is if you work on bike handling skills first, you will avoid a lot of scraps, cuts and possibly worse injuries. It’s no joke - falling with clipless pedals is simply not a requirement nor inevitable as some here say. You can get seriously hurt falling on a bike when you didn’t have to. It’s bad advice to do it any other way.
And, there are people who just don’t have decent coordination (a minority’s, thankfully) and who can never get it right. Fortunately they usually know who they are. But everyone else benefits dramatically from working on bike skills first.
You our comment about “time and practice” is right on. But it’s not practicing the pedal release first. It’s practicing how to manage your bike in slow speed situations first and then introducing the notion of fixing your feet to the pedals.
My hope is to get rid of this notion that falling with clipless pedals is inevitable because it’s not. Falling on a bike hurts and I think avoiding that is a very good thing for all kinds of obvious reasons.
But most want to put the cart before the horse first, despite that being quite painful.
08-13-18, 12:22 PM
#30
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Are they SPD (mountain bike pedals with recessed cleats on the shoes) or SPD-SL (road bike system)? Typically, the SPDs are somewhat easier, and have the advantage that many pedals are double-sided meaning you can clip in on both sides.
You can adjust the tension and I have my commuting pedals at almost the minimum - they just slip on and off with almost no effort. I've never accidently unclipped even pushing it hard up hills.
You can adjust the tension and I have my commuting pedals at almost the minimum - they just slip on and off with almost no effort. I've never accidently unclipped even pushing it hard up hills.
08-13-18, 12:41 PM
#31
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You apparently think I’m being snarky or somehow inappropriate.
But the fact is if you work on bike handling skills first, you will avoid a lot of scraps, cuts and possibly worse injuries. It’s no joke - falling with clipless pedals is simply not a requirement nor inevitable as some here say. You can get seriously hurt falling on a bike when you didn’t have to. It’s bad advice to do it any other way.
And, there are people who just don’t have decent coordination (a minority’s, thankfully) and who can never get it right. Fortunately they usually know who they are. But everyone else benefits dramatically from working on bike skills first.
You our comment about “time and practice” is right on. But it’s not practicing the pedal release first. It’s practicing how to manage your bike in slow speed situations first and then introducing the notion of fixing your feet to the pedals.
My hope is to get rid of this notion that falling with clipless pedals is inevitable because it’s not. Falling on a bike hurts and I think avoiding that is a very good thing for all kinds of obvious reasons.
But most want to put the cart before the horse first, despite that being quite painful.
08-13-18, 02:21 PM
#32
Senior Member
My experience, when learning to use SPD-SLs I fell 3 times, once in my driveway, once into a ditch, and once onto the asphalt while trying to do a small turn-a-round.
08-13-18, 02:34 PM
#33
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yeah so far I only ate it once. I feel pretty good on them. I'm clipping in and out fairly easily. It's new to me so it'll take some time.
08-13-18, 04:24 PM
#34
Senior Member
It's a "self teacher" thing. I practiced in the yard, never fell once.
First few rides, I "dead turtled" at a couple stop signs & in a group, while "multi tasking". ( Was glad I had gloves on )
Unclipping is second nature now, (fingers crossed
)I even unclip my tennis shoes when riding to the mail box.
Last edited by bogydave; 08-13-18 at 04:27 PM.
08-13-18, 06:32 PM
#35
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Yea
It's a "self teacher" thing. I practiced in the yard, never fell once.
First few rides, I "dead turtled" at a couple stop signs & in a group, while "multi tasking". ( Was glad I had gloves on )
Unclipping is second nature now, (fingers crossed )
I even unclip my tennis shoes when riding to the mail box.
It's a "self teacher" thing. I practiced in the yard, never fell once.
First few rides, I "dead turtled" at a couple stop signs & in a group, while "multi tasking". ( Was glad I had gloves on )
Unclipping is second nature now, (fingers crossed
)I even unclip my tennis shoes when riding to the mail box.
08-14-18, 06:45 AM
#36
wears long socks
You apparently think I’m being snarky or somehow inappropriate.
But the fact is if you work on bike handling skills first, you will avoid a lot of scraps, cuts and possibly worse injuries. It’s no joke - falling with clipless pedals is simply not a requirement nor inevitable as some here say. You can get seriously hurt falling on a bike when you didn’t have to. It’s bad advice to do it any other way.
And, there are people who just don’t have decent coordination (a minority’s, thankfully) and who can never get it right. Fortunately they usually know who they are. But everyone else benefits dramatically from working on bike skills first.
You our comment about “time and practice” is right on. But it’s not practicing the pedal release first. It’s practicing how to manage your bike in slow speed situations first and then introducing the notion of fixing your feet to the pedals.
My hope is to get rid of this notion that falling with clipless pedals is inevitable because it’s not. Falling on a bike hurts and I think avoiding that is a very good thing for all kinds of obvious reasons.
But most want to put the cart before the horse first, despite that being quite painful.
08-14-18, 06:56 AM
#37
Senior Member
pedals don’t cause slow speed falls. Poor bike handling skills do. You can do a track stand on flat pedals. Learn how to do it and you have have plenty of opportunity to get your feet out before you fall. Unless, of course, you want to fall.
08-14-18, 09:57 AM
#38
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People probably could reduce that with more practice beforehand...they tend not to though.
Also, a lot of people don't have the flexibility and muscle activation to do things like a track stand. It's like how some people can do the splits, others could do the splits after training, but some people can never do them. After dealing with then fixing some of my posture issues, it's clear to me why some movements other people could make I could never do, even as a kid. Some people have the ability to use the right muscles to stabilize, some people struggle with it but could do it with practice, others can never do it without medical intervention to get the muscles needed working and firing and they're not very good at doing that either.
08-14-18, 10:26 AM
#39
wears long socks
Obviously no one wants to fall, but since you haven't apparantly, it's rather easy for you to attribute it to your awesomeness and then citicize those who have for their glaring lack of awesomeness.
If you've never dropped a phone, you must have awesome phone handling skills and should probably educate the less coordinated on proper phone control technique.
08-14-18, 11:29 AM
#40
Senior Member
Disagree completely about track standing etc, the almost inevitable "come to a stop, don't quite get the foot off on time, fall over at 0mph" fall in the first few times with clipless is because your brains automatic "take the foot off the pedal" pulls the foot off the pedal just a hair to late. You fall over, your brain goes "oh f*** that didn't go right", and it usually fixes the time for next time. But it has nothing to do with other bike handling skills like track standing.
People probably could reduce that with more practice beforehand...they tend not to though.
Also, a lot of people don't have the flexibility and muscle activation to do things like a track stand. It's like how some people can do the splits, others could do the splits after training, but some people can never do them. After dealing with then fixing some of my posture issues, it's clear to me why some movements other people could make I could never do, even as a kid. Some people have the ability to use the right muscles to stabilize, some people struggle with it but could do it with practice, others can never do it without medical intervention to get the muscles needed working and firing and they're not very good at doing that either.
People probably could reduce that with more practice beforehand...they tend not to though.
Also, a lot of people don't have the flexibility and muscle activation to do things like a track stand. It's like how some people can do the splits, others could do the splits after training, but some people can never do them. After dealing with then fixing some of my posture issues, it's clear to me why some movements other people could make I could never do, even as a kid. Some people have the ability to use the right muscles to stabilize, some people struggle with it but could do it with practice, others can never do it without medical intervention to get the muscles needed working and firing and they're not very good at doing that either.
pedals and presume you have to fall to finally use them. A lot of people have had injuries from just this sort of thinking that we’re completely avoidable. Falling over on a bike with your feet locked in means you go over like a tree. Very easy to break wrists, hips, get concussions not to mention lacerations, abrasions and and deep bruises. .
Part of bike handling skills are having them sufficiently developed that you now have the coordination and timing necessary to do this safely. That’s the entire point of it.
And if if you have some physical impediment that makes that a problem - fix it if you can like you did. And if you can’t then maybe clipless is not the way to go.
This isn’t complicated.
08-14-18, 11:56 AM
#41
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which makes my other point about lack of coordination. It’s foolish to get clipless
pedals and presume you have to fall to finally use them. A lot of people have had injuries from just this sort of thinking that we’re completely avoidable. Falling over on a bike with your feet locked in means you go over like a tree. Very easy to break wrists, hips, get concussions not to mention lacerations, abrasions and and deep bruises. .
Part of bike handling skills are having them sufficiently developed that you now have the coordination and timing necessary to do this safely. That’s the entire point of it.
Part of bike handling skills are having them sufficiently developed that you now have the coordination and timing necessary to do this safely. That’s the entire point of it.
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were saying. I didn't mean to agree that you "had to" go over, just that it typically happens. I definitely agree that if you're hestitant you should be practicing it first on something like a stationary bike. Hitting pavement in a fall can definitely be dangerous.
To the point of being able to trackstand, a lot of times it's not very fixable. they're just not very good at fixing this kind of stuff. I meant I have experience with what's not working to be able to understand why I've never been able to do more medium/advanced handling like doing trackstands.
08-14-18, 02:13 PM
#42
Banned.
Being clipped into pedals that your brain forgot you were clipped into absolutely cause falls, be it the pedal or your brain to blame.
Obviously no one wants to fall, but since you haven't apparantly, it's rather easy for you to attribute it to your awesomeness and then citicize those who have for their glaring lack of awesomeness.
If you've never dropped a phone, you must have awesome phone handling skills and should probably educate the less coordinated on proper phone control technique.
Obviously no one wants to fall, but since you haven't apparantly, it's rather easy for you to attribute it to your awesomeness and then citicize those who have for their glaring lack of awesomeness.
If you've never dropped a phone, you must have awesome phone handling skills and should probably educate the less coordinated on proper phone control technique.
08-14-18, 02:53 PM
#43
Senior Member
Perhaps I misinterpreted what you were saying. I didn't mean to agree that you "had to" go over, just that it typically happens. I definitely agree that if you're hestitant you should be practicing it first on something like a stationary bike. Hitting pavement in a fall can definitely be dangerous.
To the point of being able to trackstand, a lot of times it's not very fixable. they're just not very good at fixing this kind of stuff. I meant I have experience with what's not working to be able to understand why I've never been able to do more medium/advanced handling like doing trackstands.
To the point of being able to trackstand, a lot of times it's not very fixable. they're just not very good at fixing this kind of stuff. I meant I have experience with what's not working to be able to understand why I've never been able to do more medium/advanced handling like doing trackstands.
The way to do that is to develop better bike handling skills OR better coordination OR both. Track stands are one very good technique fairly easily learned by even novice riders - there are others. But it is foolish to jump on a bike without releaing from the pedals being automatic. I consider these comments of “you might as well get your fall over with” or “falling is inevitable with clipless pedals” to be absolute dangerous nonsense. I have seen people get seriously hurt falling over on a bike at a standstill (for whatever reason). A fall with your feet clipped in on hard pavement is a great shortcut to wind up with a serious injury. It’s nothing to be flip about (not saying you were, incidentally).
There are people who lack the coordination to do this. There are others who have physical impediments that can make the coordination difficult or impossible to obtain. These people should not use clipless pedals.
All that said, once you do have the coordination then clipless pedals are really no different than regular pedals with respect to safety. Like I said, I’ve been riding them since they first came out in the ‘80’s and have never fallen because of my pedals. I did learn to ride with cleats and toe clips where you were literally locked into the pedal and that taught me slow speed bike handling skills out of necessity.
People who go out and buy a bike and all the gear including clipless pedals and then expect to go out and ride without an incident are just asking for a serious injury. It’s like going skiing without taking a lesson and then being surprised when you can’t miss the tree that is right in front of you. Same kinds of energy are available to create all sorts of serious injuries. Same is even true of those who have been riding for a while and who put clipless pedals on and then go for a ride. That’s pure foolishness and dangerous.
Finally, many people wind up buying clipless pedals for fashion reasons. Until you learn proper pedalling technique instead of just mashing the pedals on the downstroke, numerous investigations have shown that clipless pedals provide little to no benefit over flat pedals. However, once you do learn to use them properly, you can be much more efficient in supplying power to the cranks. What that nets out to is that there is little benefit to buy clipless pedals until bike handling, coordination and pedaling technique have all been improved.
The way to avoid injury is to develop the coordination and the bike handling skills to provide the time and opportunity to get out of the pedals.
J.
08-15-18, 11:31 AM
#44
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I feel like at this point these debates end up not going well in forum format. I always used to run into the kind of people who threw clipless onto their bike because it was fashionable then showed up to rides being unable to unclip. Not because it's particularly hard with practice, but just because they were to lazy to practice it. They put both themselves and other people at serious risk because they didn't know what they're doing.
On the other hand the situation I was thinking of is rather different. The person knows how to clip in and out consciously, but at some point their brain goes into auto mode, but doesn't quite realize they need to clip out 1.5 seconds sooner with clipless than it did with flats. Then they have the common situation where they come up to a stop, slow down to almost no speed...and fall over. It's not that they don't know how to clip out, it's that the primitive automatic remind in their brain didn't go off. I don't agree that track stands would help in this situation or that it's always possible to train yourself sufficiently to avoid it. From what I understand it's a problem in all sports training in retraining unconscious automatic responses.
Here's a thread where someone looked up more actual studies on clipless:
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...-pedal-systems
The Pedaling Technique of Elite Endurance Cyclists: Changes With Increasing Workload at Constant Cadence was published in the International Journal of Sport Biometrics 7:29-53, 1991. However, it seems to come to the conclusion that they don't really make any difference as far as pedaling efficiency goes.
It may be that clipless gives you small but critical advantages in racing no one has proof one way or the other. But a claim that clipless makes you "much more efficient" is not backed up by anything scientific, studies on the topic say the opposite. I see people feeling they "have to use clipless" so they need to rush into it or they won't be able to keep up. It's not true. It's a small improvement at absolute best, and not worth rushing into using them when you're not entirely sure you'll be able to get unclipped.
P.S. My dad belongs to a senior's bike club. They exercise to keep themselves active and in shape, and at their age not exercising is dangerous for their health so it's actually more dangerous for them to not exercise at all vs the risk of getting injured exercising. It's impressive that they're out there biking 30 or 50 miles in a ride. But at the same time they're at an age where they have osteoporosis and such and falling over could kill them. And there is one guy who's always trying to talk people into switching to clipless. "You'll be so much more efficient! You'll pull up with your hamstrings guys! Oh, you can pull up, smooth out your pedal stroke, bla bla bla magic!". I just want to punch the guy in the face for pushing some b.s. with a group of people who if they fell over that low speed could die or be stuck in a wheelchair for the next 20 years of their life. My experience has been that even for people who take things slower in learning clipless, most people still end up having one low speed fall where they slow to a stop and don't quite get unclipped in time and do the slow lean over onto the ground.
On the other hand the situation I was thinking of is rather different. The person knows how to clip in and out consciously, but at some point their brain goes into auto mode, but doesn't quite realize they need to clip out 1.5 seconds sooner with clipless than it did with flats. Then they have the common situation where they come up to a stop, slow down to almost no speed...and fall over. It's not that they don't know how to clip out, it's that the primitive automatic remind in their brain didn't go off. I don't agree that track stands would help in this situation or that it's always possible to train yourself sufficiently to avoid it. From what I understand it's a problem in all sports training in retraining unconscious automatic responses.
Here's a thread where someone looked up more actual studies on clipless:
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...-pedal-systems
The Pedaling Technique of Elite Endurance Cyclists: Changes With Increasing Workload at Constant Cadence was published in the International Journal of Sport Biometrics 7:29-53, 1991. However, it seems to come to the conclusion that they don't really make any difference as far as pedaling efficiency goes.
It may be that clipless gives you small but critical advantages in racing no one has proof one way or the other. But a claim that clipless makes you "much more efficient" is not backed up by anything scientific, studies on the topic say the opposite. I see people feeling they "have to use clipless" so they need to rush into it or they won't be able to keep up. It's not true. It's a small improvement at absolute best, and not worth rushing into using them when you're not entirely sure you'll be able to get unclipped.
P.S. My dad belongs to a senior's bike club. They exercise to keep themselves active and in shape, and at their age not exercising is dangerous for their health so it's actually more dangerous for them to not exercise at all vs the risk of getting injured exercising. It's impressive that they're out there biking 30 or 50 miles in a ride. But at the same time they're at an age where they have osteoporosis and such and falling over could kill them. And there is one guy who's always trying to talk people into switching to clipless. "You'll be so much more efficient! You'll pull up with your hamstrings guys! Oh, you can pull up, smooth out your pedal stroke, bla bla bla magic!". I just want to punch the guy in the face for pushing some b.s. with a group of people who if they fell over that low speed could die or be stuck in a wheelchair for the next 20 years of their life. My experience has been that even for people who take things slower in learning clipless, most people still end up having one low speed fall where they slow to a stop and don't quite get unclipped in time and do the slow lean over onto the ground.
Last edited by PaulRivers; 08-15-18 at 11:39 AM.
08-15-18, 11:50 AM
#45
Senior Member
I feel like at this point these debates end up not going well in forum format. I always used to run into the kind of people who threw clipless onto their bike because it was fashionable then showed up to rides being unable to unclip. Not because it's particularly hard with practice, but just because they were to lazy to practice it. They put both themselves and other people at serious risk because they didn't know what they're doing.
On the other hand the situation I was thinking of is rather different. The person knows how to clip in and out consciously, but at some point their brain goes into auto mode, but doesn't quite realize they need to clip out 1.5 seconds sooner with clipless than it did with flats. Then they have the common situation where they come up to a stop, slow down to almost no speed...and fall over. It's not that they don't know how to clip out, it's that the primitive automatic remind in their brain didn't go off. I don't agree that track stands would help in this situation or that it's always possible to train yourself sufficiently to avoid it. From what I understand it's a problem in all sports training in retraining he unconscious automatic responses.
Here's a thread where someone looked up more actual studies on clipless:
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...-pedal-systems
The Pedaling Technique of Elite Endurance Cyclists: Changes With Increasing Workload at Constant Cadence was published in the International Journal of Sport Biometrics 7:29-53, 1991. However, it seems to come to the conclusion that they don't really make any difference as far as pedaling efficiency goes.
It may be that clipless gives you small but critical advantages in racing no one has proof one way or the other. But a claim that clipless makes you "much more efficient" is not backed up by anything scientific, studies on the topic say the opposite. I see people feeling they "have to use clipless" so they need to rush into it or they won't be able to keep up. It's not true at all.
P.S. My dad belongs to a senior's bike club. They exercise to keep themselves active and in shape, and at their age not exercising is dangerous for their health so it's actually more dangerous for them to not exercise at all vs the risk of getting injured exercising. It's impressive that they're out there biking 30 or 50 miles in a ride. But at the same time they're at an age where they have osteoporosis and such and falling over could kill them. And there is one guy who's always trying to talk people into switching to clipless. "You'll be so much more efficient! You'll pull up with your hamstrings guys! Oh, you can pull up, smooth out your pedal stroke, bla bla bla magic!". I just want to punch the guy in the face for pushing some b.s. with a group of people who if they fell over that low speed could die or be stuck in a wheelchair for the next 20 years of their life.
On the other hand the situation I was thinking of is rather different. The person knows how to clip in and out consciously, but at some point their brain goes into auto mode, but doesn't quite realize they need to clip out 1.5 seconds sooner with clipless than it did with flats. Then they have the common situation where they come up to a stop, slow down to almost no speed...and fall over. It's not that they don't know how to clip out, it's that the primitive automatic remind in their brain didn't go off. I don't agree that track stands would help in this situation or that it's always possible to train yourself sufficiently to avoid it. From what I understand it's a problem in all sports training in retraining he unconscious automatic responses.
Here's a thread where someone looked up more actual studies on clipless:
https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/q...-pedal-systems
The Pedaling Technique of Elite Endurance Cyclists: Changes With Increasing Workload at Constant Cadence was published in the International Journal of Sport Biometrics 7:29-53, 1991. However, it seems to come to the conclusion that they don't really make any difference as far as pedaling efficiency goes.
It may be that clipless gives you small but critical advantages in racing no one has proof one way or the other. But a claim that clipless makes you "much more efficient" is not backed up by anything scientific, studies on the topic say the opposite. I see people feeling they "have to use clipless" so they need to rush into it or they won't be able to keep up. It's not true at all.
P.S. My dad belongs to a senior's bike club. They exercise to keep themselves active and in shape, and at their age not exercising is dangerous for their health so it's actually more dangerous for them to not exercise at all vs the risk of getting injured exercising. It's impressive that they're out there biking 30 or 50 miles in a ride. But at the same time they're at an age where they have osteoporosis and such and falling over could kill them. And there is one guy who's always trying to talk people into switching to clipless. "You'll be so much more efficient! You'll pull up with your hamstrings guys! Oh, you can pull up, smooth out your pedal stroke, bla bla bla magic!". I just want to punch the guy in the face for pushing some b.s. with a group of people who if they fell over that low speed could die or be stuck in a wheelchair for the next 20 years of their life.
I learned how to apply more power throughout the pedal stroke (which is different than efficiency) back in the clear and toe clip days. If you get serious at some point in your cycling about speed or climbing then you figure that out.
But it wasn’t until a few years ago when installed power meters on my bike where I learned how much additional power I could supply - and it’s significant. The downside is that you need to think about it while youre doing it. It takes a fair bit of concentration. The result is that I know I can climb steeper and longer hills than I could before given the same strength and weight but with better pedaling technique. Without clipless pedals, that would not be possible. But, that is also not beginner stuff either.
What really pointed out the importance of technique to me was a video I saw of Greg Lemond cycling up a steep climb on one of the roads used in a stage of the Giro while riding with a current World Tour rider. The grade as more than 10% and probably close to 15% in places. Yet here is 50 something out of race shape Greg Lemond pedaling up this while conversing about bikes and his days racing. He may not have been in great shape but he sure had an awesome technique that got him up that hill.
So, it’s probably fair to say that most people buy clipless
pedals before they have the skill and coordination to properly do so. I think most people think they are expert at riding a bike when they really aren’t. Procrastinating before buying clipless is a good thing and developing those pedaling and handling skills first are even better.
J.
08-15-18, 12:08 PM
#46
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Clipless works very well for good pedalling technique, I just don't think it's the only way to have good pedalling technique.
What really pointed out the importance of technique to me was a video I saw of Greg Lemond cycling up a steep climb on one of the roads used in a stage of the Giro while riding with a current World Tour rider. The grade as more than 10% and probably close to 15% in places. Yet here is 50 something out of race shape Greg Lemond pedaling up this while conversing about bikes and his days racing. He may not have been in great shape but he sure had an awesome technique that got him up that hill.
So, it’s probably fair to say that most people buy clipless pedals before they have the skill and coordination to properly do so. I think most people think they are expert at riding a bike when they really aren’t. Procrastinating before buying clipless is a good thing and developing those pedaling and handling skills first are even better.
Clipless is a good system, I'm just tired of the over the top claims that push people into trying to use it when they'd be better off sticking with good flats. No doubt clipless is better for wildly sprinting against other riders in a race. But it's a poor system for someone who wants to jump onto their bike and ride right now without practicing using them first. It's also a poor system for someone who's riding at 15mph, has osteoporosis, and faces the last 20 years of their life in a wheelchair if they have a small low speed fall. Clipless is a solid system but there are numerous reasons not to use it as well. I go back and forth between "for a few people it's unsafe" to just "I like being able to bike to a restaurant and walk across the floor in flat regular shoes".
Last edited by PaulRivers; 08-15-18 at 12:27 PM.
08-15-18, 12:12 PM
#47
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I began using clipless pedals late in my cycling efforts. Speedplays were recommended because of prior knee surgery. Now I can't imagine riding without them. You will get accustomed to the pedals quickly. Falling will not be a problem and clipping in and out will become second nature to the extent that you can do it without even looking.
08-15-18, 12:14 PM
#48
Senior Member
Hrmm. I actually have a general question...this seems as good a place to ask as any.
I have SPDs. It seems there is a bit of play up and down. By this I mean, when pulling up on the pedals, I feel looseness, and a bit of clicking, like the cleat is moving around in the pedal. Is this normal for SPDs?
I have SPDs. It seems there is a bit of play up and down. By this I mean, when pulling up on the pedals, I feel looseness, and a bit of clicking, like the cleat is moving around in the pedal. Is this normal for SPDs?
08-15-18, 02:06 PM
#49
Senior Member
I'm definitely not arguing against better pedalling technique. But why do you think you can only do it with clipless? With modern high quality flats (pedals with pins, and five ten or equivalent shoes) you can push forward, down, and back on a flat pedal. Only thing you can't do is pull up which - studies on pro racers have found they aren't pulling up so it's not likely a drawback.
Clipless works very well for good pedalling technique, I just don't think it's the only way to have good pedalling technique.
Yeah, I'm definitely not arguing against technique...that's pretty cool.
I agree completely.
Clipless is a good system, I'm just tired of the over the top claims that push people into trying to use it when they'd be better off sticking with good flats. No doubt clipless is better for wildly sprinting against other riders in a race. But it's a poor system for someone who wants to jump onto their bike and ride right now without practicing using them first. It's also a poor system for someone who's riding at 15mph, has osteoporosis, and faces the last 20 years of their life in a wheelchair if they have a small low speed fall. Clipless is a solid system but there are numerous reasons not to use it as well. I go back and forth between "for a few people it's unsafe" to just "I like being able to bike to a restaurant and walk across the floor in flat regular shoes".
Clipless works very well for good pedalling technique, I just don't think it's the only way to have good pedalling technique.
Yeah, I'm definitely not arguing against technique...that's pretty cool.
I agree completely.
Clipless is a good system, I'm just tired of the over the top claims that push people into trying to use it when they'd be better off sticking with good flats. No doubt clipless is better for wildly sprinting against other riders in a race. But it's a poor system for someone who wants to jump onto their bike and ride right now without practicing using them first. It's also a poor system for someone who's riding at 15mph, has osteoporosis, and faces the last 20 years of their life in a wheelchair if they have a small low speed fall. Clipless is a solid system but there are numerous reasons not to use it as well. I go back and forth between "for a few people it's unsafe" to just "I like being able to bike to a restaurant and walk across the floor in flat regular shoes".
A side reason is I *hate* the carved up shins I always seem to get with flats. I do, however, have them on my fat bike in the winter although I just went to some nifty platform Time ATAC pedals that seem to give me the best of all worlds.
I’m pretty aggressive on pulling across the top and bottom and when I stand on the pedals, I pull up on one side (concentrate on that) instead of worry about pushing down (you get that for free basically). I haven’t found a shoe/flat pedal combination that gives me the power I get by doing that and I tried.
Here’s the thing though - I’m a big fan of clipless pedals. They make for a great system. I can’t conceive of not being able to get out of them and causing a fall. It’s so second nature to me that I don’t even think about it and because I know I can easily keep upright at slow speed, it’s not like I don’t have time to get it done either - I can make time. So, for me, I see no downside to using clipless system. My only caveat is that folks need to develop the skill and coordination to use them before they go hop on a bike and try and do some serious riding in an uncontrolled setting. And I think it is irresponsible for people to be advocating just this and telling clipless newbies that “you might as well get your first fall out of the way” as if it’s inevitable. It’s not and it’s silly to take that kind of risk of serious injury. Very easy to break a hip, a wrist or get a concussion from a fall like that. And that’s going to mean a lot of time off the bike for a while.
08-15-18, 03:28 PM
#50
Full Member
My rule of thumb FWIW is to always un-clip "before" you stop and make that a habit. Even if you don't make a complete stop just clip back in when you start moving again.
Mountain biking is another story. Trying to clip-out going up a steep hill right pedaling hard right at the point of stopping still get me sometimes. Need to practice more in this situation. I've fallen a few times and luckily it was about 0.1mph...
Mountain biking is another story. Trying to clip-out going up a steep hill right pedaling hard right at the point of stopping still get me sometimes. Need to practice more in this situation. I've fallen a few times and luckily it was about 0.1mph...
