johngwheeler

I've just bought a bike with Shimano RS505 hydro brakes. These are often derided for their appearance, but they do a good job of braking.

However, I have found one problem - an uncomfortable resting position for my thumbs. Let me explain with photos:

Here's the inboard side of the brake lever:



Here is my hand with my thumb held horizontal on the side of the hood


Here is how naturally grip the hoods with my thumb wrapped around to hold on more securely. Note how the pad of the thumb ends up on the un-covered brake lever pivot mechanism


Here are the views from the top.



The "wrap-around" feels more natural to me, I really notice the ridge of the hood rubber cover on my the side of my thumb, and the hard metal of the lever pivot on the pad.

It seems like a bit of a design fault to me. My other bikes (SRAM Rival & Ultegra hydro brakes) don't have this issue. All of the contact points are covered in soft material.

RS505 owners - where do you put your thumbs?

Thanks!

WhyFi

Never thought about it, but I don't have the issue that you're experiencing. Based on how your thumb knuckle is turning white, though, it looks like you're making more of an effort than is natural to jam your thumb tip in the mechanics - maybe don't do that?

johngwheeler

Lazyass

In that hand location there's nowhere else for your thumb to go. But my thumb is relaxed not pressing anything when I'm just cruising. When I am gripping it hard I don't find my thumb uncomfortable, it never entered my mind until I read this thread.

Adonis72

I've used them and they actually feel more comfortable to me than my Ultegras, I guess I've never thought about thumb placement on them or any others.

Dean V

Ignore it and you won't notice it in a few weeks.

chainwhip

+1 for lighter grip

Since your new bike has more responsive geometry and handling ("twitchier"), thinking "firm,but fluid"
might get several problems solved.

Also, can you relax the last digit (end)of your thumb almost completely, yet still grip firmly with the second digit?

Hell, just ride in the drops!

MoAlpha

Same place as on all my other levers, it seems. I am only aware of the bulge if I bring my hands all the way back to the bars. Yeah, they're odd looking, but they work well for me. One thing I don't do is grip the underside of the body the way the OP is doing, except possibly when climbing hard.

Caliper

Lighter grip works for cruising, but when climbing don't you guys grip more tightly? I know the harder the effort, the tighter my grip is.

johngwheeler, didn't you find this while buying the bike? Personally, I've got enough power from regular brakes to send me over the bars if I wanted to so "they do a good job of braking" really doesn't sell me. I'd have bought something with different equipment.

tagaproject6

Your photos suggest that your hands are angled downwards a little too much. Try repositioning your handlebars so that your shifters are angled a little bit more upward, giving your hands a more natural/relaxed grip.

redlude97

the thumbs aren't the issue with those shifters for me, its the rest of the fingers, could not figure out how to position my hands with 90 degree elbows in an aero position like this

johngwheeler

I didn't notice this when I went for a 10-15 minute test ride, probably because I was cycling gently and concentrating on other things. It's not a huge deal; just something that I began to notice on longer rides. I'll just need to adapt my grip.

The RS505 brakes are just about as good as my RS805s although the 505 levers are not as positive as the R785 Ultegra-Di2s on my best bike. I don't doubt that you can lock up rim brakes as easily as hydro-discs when it's dry - but my experience is that you can do it with a lot less effort with hydros. The fact that braking power is not directly linked to your hand strength is a big plus for me.

johngwheeler

Well spotted. The seller mentioned that the levers came from the factory build rotated downwards more than usual. I have rotated the bars up a bit (but not the levers, which would require taking off the bar tape).

You can see the difference in angle between the 505s and SRAM and Ultegra levers on my other bikes. The Ultegras are almost vertical. Note how there are no "exposed parts" of the mechanism in these levers where your thumb ends up:

Oso Polar

IMHO you are simply positioning your hands on the hoods incorrectly - your hands should normally go a bit lower, below these "bulbs". See photos of the first position here: Drop Bar Hand Positions: an Introduction Note there his fingers go (including thumbs) - they are not pressing against the vertical part! If you'll position your hands more or less like this then, first of all, you'll find out that now your fingers are not going into brake metal parts anymore but all sit right on the rubber of the hoods (and on the bar tape of the bars), as was expected by the manufacturer. And, second, it'll become much, much more comfortable on the long rides because in the current position you are twisting your hand up and pressing between thumb and index finger - this puts pressure on the nerves and blood vessels which are plenty at this spot and over prolong periods usually causes hand numbness and pain in the upper arms (possibly all the way up to the neck). Also, really you don't even need to hold your bars from below at all except on some real bumpy roads, during climbing, riding out of saddle etc. - your hands should just lie relaxed on the hoods.

johngwheeler

The grip on the hoods in the linked page looks very odd, especially with the curve of the drop bars sandwiched between the ring and little fingers. The image also shows the web of the hand a long way from the actual hoods, which doesn't seem common, especially with larger hydro hoods. Check out the section from 0.50" in this GCN video: . Just Googling "hand position on the hoods" shows the majority of riders making contact between the web of the hand and the vertical part of the hoods. I agree that this shouldn't be a "death grip" that puts any significant pressure on the web of the hand, but the hands need to be positioned to touch the hoods to get solid finger contact on the brake levers.

I think part of the problem with my 505 levers is the position on the bars. I should rotate these upwards so that the hood are more vertical. On my other bikes I have a least a centimeter of the hoods above the web of my hand. On the 505s, my hand is flush or slightly above the top of the hoods. I don't have large hands, so this indicates that the whole brifter is too low. I'll have to unwrap the bar tape to do this, but I think it needs to be done.

Thanks for the suggestion in any case.

Abe_Froman

It's definitely an issue with the shifters. They're super comfy normaly...but racing cross today i actually ended up with a blister on my thumb from the area you're talking about.

Oso Polar

Well, yeah, typically you'll not get that much space with hydro. Comfortable finger position, I guess, depends a lot on the actual palm and finger thickness + finger length.

"Curve of the drop bars sandwiched between the ring and little fingers":


This is a screenshot from the video you provided. With my relatively thick and short fingers I actually find this position very comfortable and secure in situations where I need a hard grip on the handlebars and brakes while still on the hoods (e.g. bumpy downhill): ring, little finger and thumb provide a very secure tight grip around the bar curve while index and middle fingers are on the brake lever. Ring finger alone is thin enough that it doesn't get into the way of the brake lever in case I need to press it hard, index and middle fingers are strong enough to press it hard.

Normally (for me) I'll have fingers pretty relaxed, thumb on one side, all other fingers on the other side of the hood, not really gripping. Similar to this screenshot (from the same video), slightly back from this position (so that pinky goes even a bit lower on the curve - though not much lower):


The thing is that though you may touch this vertical part of the grips, I believe you don't really need to push against them and make you hand twist up on this part: it should lay on the flat part of the grips and in this case fingers (including thumb) will be mostly pointing downward, not mostly forward (as on one of your photos) and should probably fit before the bulbous part. I admit I use Ultegra hydro with more traditional hoods but they still have open metal parts at the bottom. They actually have kind of a drawing, a grid pattern on the rubber of the hoods - which stops just a bit after the upper curve starts. I found out that if my hands are not sitting above this pattern (so that the very end of this pattern is still visible) then my fingers don't get into these internal metallic parts. So, it is a very good hint from a manufacturer on recommended hand position. Well, may be 105 is just really that odd...

Actually, this is what made me think that your hands are positioned too high. Hmm, this is a possibility, I guess, though on your photos brifters don't seem to be too low to me - your photo shows that flat part of the hoods is horizontal and slightly pointing upward, not down. Did you adjust your brake levers reach? If you didn't do this yet, put them as close to the bars as possible, may help a lot with small hands.

Metieval

Pull, not push!

it will change everything.


the bar is for steering, not upper body support.