Originally Posted by Commodus

Lots of people are falling back on this old nonsense that Lance was just 'leveling the playing field.'

This is completely untrue. There have always been drugs in cycling, and even, at times, organized doping programs within teams. The problem with Lance is that he not only used the best dope available, and retained the exclusive services of the best doping doctor in the world; but he also sought out and destroyed the careers of those trying to clean up the sport.

We're talking about a guy who would openly mock teammates who hesitated to use, and then of course would refuse to put them on the Tour team if they didn't.

During Lance's time, drug regimens developed that were extremely effective and extremely dangerous. If you were willing to take the risks, and your body responded well to them and you could afford it, you were riding with a huge advantage. It only takes a cursory examination of Lance's career before and after his cancer to see that this was a rider who was not likely to ever win a GT, who suddenly turned into one of the greatest stage racers of all time.

Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer

Maybe, his weight loss did play into that more than his detractors are willing to admit. I do remember reading that Lemond said that he'd be "petrified" if he gained even a pound of muscle. Weight is a huge deal in cycling; and it's clear to me that Armstrong lost at least 10lbs after his bout with cancer.

Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer

The problem for you is that he was working with Ferrari before and after. So, if you believe he doped pre-cancer (which I "always" assumed) and believe he doped post-cancer (which I now conclude he did) the question is: why did he "suddenly" become a GC rider post cancer, if he was doping his whole--if not, most of his professional career with Ferrari? Maybe, his weight loss did play into that more than his detractors are willing to admit. I do remember reading that Lemond said that he'd be "petrified" if he gained even a pound of muscle. Weight is a huge deal in cycling; and it's clear to me that Armstrong lost at least 10lbs after his bout with cancer.

Originally Posted by ravenmore

I believe during his last couple of tours he was down around 165.

Originally Posted by Rotten Bastard

Look how much mileage Wiggins got out of losing 16 or so pounds.

Originally Posted by Rocket-Sauce

Just playing devil's advocate here, but why do you assume Wiggo didn't dope? He, along with the rest of his Cofidis squad, withdrew from the Tour in '07 after Moreni failed a doping test.

It is hard to find a pro rider with NO ties to doping scandal.

Originally Posted by AzTallRider

No new news in awhile. Anyone else think someone will stir the pot again before TdF starts?

Originally Posted by Cat4Lifer

Weight is a huge deal in cycling; and it's clear to me that Armstrong lost at least 10lbs after his bout with cancer.

Originally Posted by PeddlingPilgrim

i think the facts4lance twitter account and the actual site was a crazy floyd landis job, is this right? facts4lance is private now, has this been posted?

https://goo.gl/kC3vJ

"GreyManrod‎ @cycletard We are celebrating the arrival of full ****** @joelfelicio tempered by the disappearance of Facts4Lance.com"

greymanrod is floyd:

https://neilbrowne.com/2011/05/is-the...tes-interview/

Originally Posted by Rotten Bastard

I agree that it's hard to take things at face value these days, but Wiggins has been really outspoken about the whole doping issue. The '07 withdrawal was just a matter of him being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Plus, he's been really transparent with his training data, especially in '09 when he was with Garmin. If there's anyone who's clean these days, it's Wiggins.