Barry2 

I've been testing a IOS App called Breakaway.
It permits you to preset a HR and the App controls the trainer resistance (watts) to maintain the HR you have set.
As you tire HR remains the same (within reason) and the watts go down.

Trouble with the App is the Licensing, it's confusing at best and contradicts itself at worst.

Any other known Apps that will regulate trainer Watts to maintain a preset HR ?

Thanks

Barry

unterhausen

That's really interesting. The first question that comes to mind is "what could go wrong?" It could be the spiral of (literal) death.
I assume that at some point you push a button that says you have had enough?

PeteHski

I have had a few stationary bikes with that function built in, but never found it very useful due to the lag in HR with changes in power. I always used a power target instead and adjusted according to my stabilised HR.

unterhausen

I agree about the lag. Back when my chest strap still worked, the lag in my heartrate doing intervals was pretty long. I suppose regulating to heartrate would be more useful if you wanted to do lower intensity efforts, but riding at the level of effort for a long time is deadly. I swear the workouts I hated the worst on trainerroad were the ones where it just ramped power up to what should have been zone 2 for me and left it constant. That's why zone 2 rides on zwift are so much better. Give me a hill occasionally.

PeteHski

Yeah, it would ramp up the power at the start before your HR had time to respond and then cut the power right back when HR eventually overshot the target. I never found it a very useful function.

I also agree about long constant power Z2 intervals being mind numbingly tedious. I swapped those long ago for Zwift group or solo rides on courses with a few rollers to break up the monotony.

spelger

agree with all of this. also, visual stimulus and mental stimulus alters heart rate as well. why should those effectively have any bearing on power? rhetorical question.

Carbonfiberboy 

I've been using mostly HR for almost 30 years to control my effort. I also have power. It's true, HR lags power, but power tells you nothing about your current physiological state. Power is wonderful for intervals up to maybe 20' because in that short time, your physiological state is continuously changing. For longer periods HR is a much more reliable source of information. Comparing HR to power over long periods, say over 30' is very valuable. If your HR is steady w/r to power, you're in good shape. Otherwise it's otherwise and you can work on that. You get to know what HR you can sustain for what length of time and what you can't. On a long ride you can judge fuel and hydration by watching your HR. More information is better.

zacster

When I first got back on the trainer my HR would go up immediately with any kind of surge of power, but as I've gotten myself into shape I see that I can sustain a higher power without my HR going up until I really start pushing it. It has made me a lot better on the sprints as I can start from higher power before I max out my HR. Zwift has raised my FTP automatically 3 times in the last two weeks as it has gotten easier to sustain. It was still a pretty low bar from where I started.

unterhausen

They should tell you what they think your ftp is more often as motivation, their estimate of mine is low enough to be embarrassing. "You should be in D races. You'll get dropped, but we don't have anything slower."
I don't think it's really that low, but I'm afraid to do an ftp test and find out for sure.

Barry2 

OK, I guess the original subject of this thread is well gone. I’ll play.

I had all kinds of issues with 20min FTP tests.
Went out too hard/slow and could not get a repeatable result.
I switched to an ERG controlled ramp test on my trainer. Maybe not the most accurate FTP result, but it gave repeatable results and I could gauge my own improvements.

Now my coach calculates my workouts using an FTP wattage far above what I believe I’m capable of for an hour.
Even way above my ramp test results.
Maybe “capable” is the wrong word, maybe “prepared to suffer” is more accurate.

seeing as we are talking embarrassingly low… most I’ve ever managed to hold for a full 1 hour straight is 150w.
Did this indoors and it didn’t kill me. My coach is training me with an FTP set to 195w (and it’s increasing).

BTW: if you just want a per ride estimate of FTP intervals.lcu will do that (eFTP).
It has a free option and will take your ride data from other services (example Strava)

Barry

60 years old
Cycling since 2019

unterhausen

I believe that saying it's your one hour power is really just a shortcut. I think the ramp test is probably the most accurate for me. I did a couple of 8 minute tests, and I can suffer for that long if I want to make my ftp higher out of vanity. I think 20 minute tests are just too long for me, and I get discouraged. Getting a ftp that's too high is bad for systems like trainerroad, where they set the intensity based on your ftp. BTDT

I really should put a power meter on one of my outside bikes, I mostly have them to track training stress though.

zacster

When I started up again I set my FTP 40w lower than I had left it. It was the only way I could do any structured training so I figured I must be close. I didn't want to push my HR as high as I had in the past, at 69 you have to concede a bit. I've really pushed it a few times recently with no ill effects so I'm a little more comfortable now. My cardiologist said I was fine too. All that said I know I was totally spent when I did an FTP test a few years ago and didn't want to take the risk to exert myself that much again, and if you're scared to exert yourself, then you don't really know what you are capable of. When Zwift upped my FTP last week I could've probably gone even harder. I was nowhere near the max yet.

Barry2 

I've a crank PM on one bike and PM pedals on the other. If I had a do-over I'd go with pedal PMs on both.
The portability of the pedals is very convenient.

Barry

Trakhak

Are you using Zwift? A post before yours noted that Zwift automatically adjusted that rider's FTP number upward based on responses to workouts. Xert does that, too. My FTP was automatically raised 10 watts in the course of about two months, and my watts/kg went from 3.2 to 3.8.

unterhausen

I just ride around on zwift, no workouts, and not too strenuous. I forget what I was looking for the other day when I found ftp. Never seen it before, so I'm not sure how long they have been estimating ftp. I assume that 2 years ago it would have been much higher, because I pushed myself on zwift much more. Got to start doing harder workouts again, but I have been sick a lot since January.

Trakhak

I've never used Zwift, so I'm not sure how it works, other than that a lot of people use it to do group rides with electronic or human riders. I find interval-based workouts more motivating/less boring, so that's what I do.

An advantage to those is that they can be tailored to the rider's current condition and goals, without the need to do an initial FTP test. Xert is the one I was using this winter. Now I've switched to MyWhoosh, which has a lot of the functionality of Zwift (although with a tiny fraction of Zwift's user base so far) and currently is free for all users. You input your age, weight, and estimated FTP, and you get workouts customized based on your data. Worth checking out.

unterhausen

Zwift has intervals, I just never use them. The ftp estimate they give me is from JRA. Trainerroad will estimate your ftp, or so they say, but I haven't seen them do it, so I don't know.