rsbob 

https://www.globalcyclingnetwork.com...les-in-germany

The future is here? Or possibly there.

CodyDog

Interesting article. Wish it offered more detail which included demographics.

rydabent

Here in Lincoln Ne, a large percentage of the bikes and trikes I see on the bike trails are now electric. The good thing about this is if you look at some of the people riding, if it wasnt for E-bikes, I think they would be home on the couch. A personal example of this is a guy I worked with, who used to laugh at my biking, now has two E-bikes. One for himself and one for his wife. And they do ride them all the time.

Then I too have had and E-trike for the last year and a half. But the thing is at 85 I feel that I am losing leg strength, so I have a new trike on order that is not electric. I am hoping to regain back my former leg strength. Again I am in the snowbelt, and hate riding in the cold. When warm I ride from 20 to 35 miles every other day.

I guess what Im saying here is dont be in a hurry to go electric, yes they are nice and fun to ride, especially as you get older, but maintain your strength for as long as you can.

TiHabanero

Rydabent, you point out an important detail about e-bikes that most of us don't think about, leg strength and general conditioning of the lower body and back. My brother's wife bought an e-bike from me a few years back at age 75. Her reason for doing so after riding a bicycle on a regular basis for over 20 years was that she didn't want to work as hard to ride the bike. Valid reason, and the whole point behind the electric assist.
What she didn't take into account was that the muscles involved in the pedaling motion are not being asked to take on the task in the same way, it is less strenuous and demands much less from the muscles. This can be a benefit for some, but a detriment for others whom do not need the lower effort even at an advanced age. If looking to purchase an e-bike it is wise to understand this.

Smaug1

I ride both electric and “acoustic” bikes. I do a fair bit of work on most of my e-bikes. I can do as little or much as I want.

For grocery runs the weight doesn’t matter much. For communing, e-bikes are GREAT; I don’t have to arrive sweaty.

Tonight, I’ll probably get an ebike ride in to save my legs for the St. Paddy’s Day ride tomorrow.

icemilkcoffee 

I hate to bring this up again, but one of these days this is going to blow up all over the media and there will be a big backlash against e-bikes:
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/3573...en%20and%20men.
Even regular cycling doesn't provide enough load to load the bones. E-bike will lessen that load even more.
I think all e-bikes must have a function where every 5 minutes it will reverse the load cycle and force you to stand up and ride doubly hard to recharge the battery.

Calsun

It is entirely different for bicyclists in Germany. I have spent time in some of their larger cities and they have streets that do not allow any motor vehicles during daylight hours. There are bridges that are for bicycles and pedestrians only to use. It was common to see men and women in business attire bicycling to work or to go shopping and using the bike as basic transportation and not for sport.

But there people have the option of excellent public transportation options within cities and the availability of 200 mph trains to go from one city to the next. (in comfort). A family does not need to own a single car unlike the USA where two or three or more are needed for family members to get around.

Transportation planning and funding since WW II has been designed to encourage use of automobiles and discourage use of public transportation and this has been successful and very profitable for the auto, tire, gas, real estate, and construction businesses.

slow rollin

This is why I see lots of elderly people at the gym. Many are/were sedentary and with the lack of overall fitness have reduced bone density and are weak. Hopefully over the years more people will strength train/hike/do stuff that helps increase bone density.

PeteHski

I thought it was roadies who do a high volume of riding (including pros) who suffered most from low bone density issues. In which case I don’t really see how e-biking would be any worse in that respect. As I understood it, it is actually cycling itself that causes the problem. So if there was going to be a media backlash (which I very much doubt) it would be against high volume road cycling as your only form of exercise.

Another quote from your linked study:-

“a review of the medical literature shows that paradoxically, road cycling has a negative effect on bone strength”

Duragrouch

If e-bike use will reduce car use, wonderful. I already see this happening in cities without extensive public transportation, and scarce parking, both at residences, and other places like employment and shopping. My city is friendly enough that I can wheel my bike into stores, as I won't leave it chained outside, that is now zero protection against theft. A few miles out geographically, perhaps up to 10 miles, people will need good and safe bike routes, and can use manual or electric. Further out, most people will drive, unless there are good bike routes and they want to save the money of buying a car at all, that's a huge savings.

The USA is, in general, not set up for bikes and public transportation, and it should be.

Most of europe does not have suburban sprawl; Farmland is precious. Even in the countryside, you see high-rise residences, to preserve farmland. Most people that work in a city, live in that city. New York City was at its peak when that was the case, instead of millions coming into the city each day for work, doubling or tripling the city population.

zymphad

Not surprising since I would guess cycling is a big part of transportation in Germany. I see very few electric bikes around me since cycling is more hobby than transportation. People too afraid to ride a bike around here in general. Was sad to see Peloton sales skyrocket but my co-workers who bought it said they would never ride a real bike since they are afraid of drivers.

I still can't fathom good reason to have motors on MTB, gravel or road bikes. But on bike for daily transportation, makes a lot of sense.

TC1

And for some mysterious reason, cyclists love to promote the idea that cycling is dangerous -- when it is actually not, at all, and when doing so is actively deleterious to that safety.

For the same reason that humans put motors on almost literally everything, laziness.

That sounds harsh, but it's true -- and laziness is not necessarily bad. Human beings' inherent laziness is exactly the trait that has led us to develop, well, almost everything that we call 'progress' -- from elevators, to washing machines, to airplanes, to computers. We could have continued chasing down prey and clubbing them with sticks -- but that's hard, so we developed traps, and bows, and guns. We could have continued foraging around for anything edible, but it turns out that if you plant food in a known location, you can sit on your duff for eight months while it grows.

All that said, from talking to a couple bike shop owners that I'm acquainted with, they all say that in the US, one won't be able to buy a motor-free bike in a shop within ten years. They can't sell them now, and no one will even try soon. LBS inventory will be electric only, and anyone who wants a traditional bike will have to order it D2C -- probably from a small group of manufacturers who continue to build them. Except for the enthusiasts on forums like this, no one else wants anything to do with powering their own vehicle, and there are probably not enough of 'us' to support profitable business models.

rsbob 

Agree with most of what you say. I live in a mountain biking meca - trails right out the front door for miles. The hills here are also steep and take a lot out of one to get to the prime single track. I can definitely see how a motor would be highly advantageous, to get the most runs in. A good comparison would be walking up a ski-hill versus riding a chair lift. A motor might be cheating, but it certainly doesn’t hurt when doing 7-17% climbs on a mile +. No one uses their motors on the way down - it would be suicidal. But you do you. 😁

Sierra_rider

Yep, I could see the benefit of an E-bike on some of my nearby trails up in the high country. These aren't the typical XC-style trails, instead they often consist of 2000' technical climbs that take a couple of hours to ride/hike-a-bike up...and then you are rewarded with less than 30 minutes of descending. I still actively seek out self flagellation in my rides, so I'm totally good with my acoustic bike, but I could see how my method wouldn't work for everyone. Even if someone has the technical skills for the downhills, there is a high requisite amount of base fitness to even ride up.

On the flip side of this, IDK that I want to increase the numbers of riders that are able to navigate these trails. At the end of the day, I'm selfish when it comes to my home riding turf and I don't want large numbers of people out there.

Alexthe

I never heard this before if true, ( PubMed ) I wish it weren't the case. Doring Covid ,I rode to work every day, even if I was tired before I left the house I felt rejuvenated wonderful as I entered the office. there are still benefits to riding bicycles, on a regular basis obviously. riding I think it did me a lot of good to finally get on the bike every day, good for the heart and lungs oxygen etc. perhaps there are compensating factors. I wonder what swimming does, a truly great exercise. Well I'm not going to swim to my job anytime soon.

Duragrouch

Motors and batteries are heavy, that is a cost. I already have a difficult time hauling my 55 lbs townie (folder with 4 panniers and trunk bag full of tools) up two flights of stairs due to no elevator. A motor and battery would probably add 10-15 lbs, and that's a lot for me, because with the panniers full of groceries, then it becomes an impossible carry.

Ideally, if you have e-bikes where the big battery comes off easy, and, same for the motor, like a mid-drive so the motor can be smaller, with a gear and contacts on the end, and it plugs into a recess like a cartridge, and the bike can be ridden fine without either, that would be great.

We're getting like the passengers in Wall-E.

rsbob 

Agree about the ‘if you want to ride it, ya got to earn it’. That was my mantra for many years, and when I see others who busted their @$$es to get up there, it’s a sort of brotherhood.

I still have an acoustic mtb and grind up the hills, but with the recent cougar attack within 2 miles of my house - with it’s sibling and mother in the neighborhood, will stick to the road - so I can get quickly splatted instead.

Duragrouch

Yeah I just emailed Seattleish friends about that, two closer to the location than me.

"Earn your turns" was the mantra of telemark skiers, no chairlift or helo.

mschwett 

I’ve owned several e-bikes and none have been anywhere near as heavy as 55lb - the current one is less than half that. there are bikes which are that heavy, but many, many, many are not.

Duragrouch

My current bike is 28 lbs without all the accessories. With a strong rear rack and super-extra-long rack stays (aft rack, folder frame with low seatstays), rear panniers, front rack, front panniers, trunk bag full of tools and tube and lights, clip-on aero bar and full drink bottle, kickstand, heavier L-shaped brake levers to reach the bar-ends, bar-ends, warm backup cloths (fleece tights and jacket and hat), another 500ml of water in the pannier, lines and straps for tying things to the rack like a 6-pack on front, phone, glasses, sunscreen, small first aid stuff, it's 55 lbs, without any groceries. Adding groceries AND a motor and battery, is too much to haul up my stairs. I'd need to sacrifice utility for motorized, perhaps just wear a big backpack to hold the groceries, which is only a couple miles.

I tried to lighten the load, took out the chain tool. Three days later on the bike trail, someone had broken a chain. Put chain tool back in kit.

CrimsonEclipse

More people cycling = yay
I'd love to live in a walkable/cyclable neighborhood

Correct headline:
Saturated market has less growth than a new market.

Garfield Cat

Where and why do we use "acoustic" to a bike? Doesn't acoustic relate to "sound"?

slow rollin

I pluck my spokes to get them a similar tension.
Oh, and I prefer acousticly quiet bikes so I run more grease in the freehub, or buy shimano/old wheels with low engagement+quiet.

I am pretty sure it's a common way of saying "mechanical" bike vs E-bike.

Duragrouch

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unpl...Clapton_album)

Unplugged. Get it?

icemilkcoffee 

The question is WHY cycling causes this problem. The answer is that cycling doesn't put enough of a load on your bones. Now e-bikes, because of the electric assist, put even less of a load on your bones. So that will certainly become a problem over the long run.