Are carbon wheels too harsh for gravel?
#26
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he said the C24's were noodly, and you swapped it out to deep section carbon. So yeah totally not what he said.
It's still there and quoted for everyone to read. LOL
It's still there and quoted for everyone to read. LOL
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Other way around. Bigger tires almost always have lower pressure, and therefore experience lower pressure drop in the spokes. All else equal, lower pressure tires make for stronger wheels IOW.
If you have a spoke tension gauge you can empirically measure this. You can even measure the difference of tubeless versus tubes, as the two setups lead to different tension-drops.
As I said...lots of myths propagated by enthusiasts that are bunk.
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Other way around. Bigger tires almost always have lower pressure, and therefore experience lower pressure drop in the spokes. All else equal, lower pressure tires make for stronger wheels IOW.
If you have a spoke tension gauge you can empirically measure this. You can even measure the difference of tubeless versus tubes, as the two setups lead to different tension-drops.
As I said...lots of myths propagated by enthusiasts that are bunk.
If you have a spoke tension gauge you can empirically measure this. You can even measure the difference of tubeless versus tubes, as the two setups lead to different tension-drops.
As I said...lots of myths propagated by enthusiasts that are bunk.
Reality check
I just swapped 28's for 38's and when I carve I now rub my disc rotors on the pads. Nothing else changed but the tires. more rubber, more grip, more force, more flex. It isn't a myth.
I don't need a gauge, I need stiffer wheels.
what's next? you'll claim that carbon being the winner in strength to weight is a myth too?
do you even ride bro? I mean like ride?
#30
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Reality check
I just swapped 28's for 38's and when I carve I now rub my disc rotors on the pads. Nothing else changed but the tires. more rubber, more grip, more force, more flex. It isn't a myth.
I don't need a gauge, I need stiffer wheels.
what's next? you'll claim that carbon being the winner in strength to weight is a myth too?
do you even ride bro? I mean like ride?
I just swapped 28's for 38's and when I carve I now rub my disc rotors on the pads. Nothing else changed but the tires. more rubber, more grip, more force, more flex. It isn't a myth.
I don't need a gauge, I need stiffer wheels.
what's next? you'll claim that carbon being the winner in strength to weight is a myth too?
do you even ride bro? I mean like ride?
Swapping tires makes your hub flex? Now that is funny.
Tell your car mechanic your summer tires ruined your alignment. He'll get a good laugh too.
#31
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What is your real world experience in ridding Carbon?
What carbon wheels, on what bikes, at what performance level, and for how many hours/miles?
Enlighten us. or entertain us.
What carbon wheels, on what bikes, at what performance level, and for how many hours/miles?
Enlighten us. or entertain us.
#33
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You can try to compare them
https://btlos.com/road-bike/700c-29m...yclocross-rims
https://btlos.com/road-bike/700c-29m...yclocross-rims
#34
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So...racers pick deep section carbon...because they slow them down because they're "quite noodly"...does that make sense?
Like I said...any wheelbuilder will giggle. Any rim that adds any noticeable compliance is on the verge of catastrophic failure. Any real meaningful differences in compliance are due to tire/tube and pressure or in the rider's head.
Like I said...any wheelbuilder will giggle. Any rim that adds any noticeable compliance is on the verge of catastrophic failure. Any real meaningful differences in compliance are due to tire/tube and pressure or in the rider's head.
Bike wheels do not flex vertically. Certainly not enough to notice while riding, and probably not enough to even measure with reasonably accurate tools. Unless of course, as Marcus here said, the wheels is so loose as to be on the verge of falling apart.
If you really don't believe it...measure the diameter of your wheel, then measure the diameter of it with a person standing on it.
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This is pretty much spot on.
Bike wheels do not flex vertically. Certainly not enough to notice while riding, and probably not enough to even measure with reasonably accurate tools. Unless of course, as Marcus here said, the wheels is so loose as to be on the verge of falling apart.
If you really don't believe it...measure the diameter of your wheel, then measure the diameter of it with a person standing on it.
Bike wheels do not flex vertically. Certainly not enough to notice while riding, and probably not enough to even measure with reasonably accurate tools. Unless of course, as Marcus here said, the wheels is so loose as to be on the verge of falling apart.
If you really don't believe it...measure the diameter of your wheel, then measure the diameter of it with a person standing on it.
#36
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I’m not familiar with floating spokes...what are those?
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before tubeless wheels, all spokes were able to float a little in the rim - that is when the wheel was compressed the spoke was not compressed, they could float a little - and in effect push into the tube on a big hit. Without rim tape, the spoke would press into the tube and sometimes cause a flat.
On a rim with a sealed rim bed (one that does not need rim tape to be tubeless, where the spokes are compressed on a big hit) I've had spokes brake under compression. Its a bit different than a tension brake - which for me usually happens at the J bend.
On a rim with a sealed rim bed (one that does not need rim tape to be tubeless, where the spokes are compressed on a big hit) I've had spokes brake under compression. Its a bit different than a tension brake - which for me usually happens at the J bend.
#38
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before tubeless wheels, all spokes were able to float a little in the rim - that is when the wheel was compressed the spoke was not compressed, they could float a little - and in effect push into the tube on a big hit. Without rim tape, the spoke would press into the tube and sometimes cause a flat.
On a rim with a sealed rim bed (one that does not need rim tape to be tubeless, where the spokes are compressed on a big hit) I've had spokes brake under compression. Its a bit different than a tension brake - which for me usually happens at the J bend.
On a rim with a sealed rim bed (one that does not need rim tape to be tubeless, where the spokes are compressed on a big hit) I've had spokes brake under compression. Its a bit different than a tension brake - which for me usually happens at the J bend.
Durning normal riding...the spoke ends at the nipple do not move....at all. There is a very small amount of stretch of the spoke that is fractionally reduced when load is decreased. A good analogy is imagining a rubber band in place of the spoke. Squishing the rim a bit isnt going to make the rubber band go slack. The same principle appies to steel spokes...if you’re hitting something so hard that you’re forcing the spoke nipple up off the rim bed...You’ve probably gotten a pinch flat already anyways. Or a broken wheel...
What kind of hits are you referring to...like hopping down a curb, or jumping a house?
#39
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Rim material has no discernable suspension effect that would translate to the rider. For all those claiming you can "feel" give in a wheel...guess what, it's something else. Brake rub, disc or rim brake, is caused by the frame and fork flexing slightly, not the wheel. The reason a lot of riders hear disc rub in hard turns is the fork flexing slightly. The caliper is mounted to the fork, so the flex causes it to momentarily come slightly out of parallel with the rotor, causing rub.
#40
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Rim material has no discernable suspension effect that would translate to the rider. For all those claiming you can "feel" give in a wheel...guess what, it's something else. Brake rub, disc or rim brake, is caused by the frame and fork flexing slightly, not the wheel. The reason a lot of riders hear disc rub in hard turns is the fork flexing slightly. The caliper is mounted to the fork, so the flex causes it to momentarily come slightly out of parallel with the rotor, causing rub.
This is simply incorrect. As the article explains, wheels flex three ways - torsionally, radially and laterally. This is fact. It isn't open to discussion.
Incidentally, the article explains why my rear Dura Ace C24 wheel rubs the brakes.
-Tim-
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This is simply incorrect. As the article explains, wheels flex three ways - torsionally, radially and laterally. This is fact. It isn't open to discussion.
Incidentally, the article explains why my rear Dura Ace C24 wheel rubs the brakes.
-Tim-
Incidentally, the article explains why my rear Dura Ace C24 wheel rubs the brakes.
-Tim-
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Wheels flex and it is perceptible. This is not a matter of whether it makes sense to anyone.
Did you read the article? It isn't about imperceptible flex. It is about very real flex which can easily be felt.
Incidentilly, I was not correct when I used the word "noodly" about my Dura Ace C24 wheels. What I am feeling is a relatively stiff rim compared to light spokes and low spoke count. They would rub the brakes less if the rims flexed more. That's the whole point of the article.
-Tim-
Did you read the article? It isn't about imperceptible flex. It is about very real flex which can easily be felt.
Incidentilly, I was not correct when I used the word "noodly" about my Dura Ace C24 wheels. What I am feeling is a relatively stiff rim compared to light spokes and low spoke count. They would rub the brakes less if the rims flexed more. That's the whole point of the article.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 03-29-18 at 02:00 PM.
#43
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This is simply incorrect. As the article explains, wheels flex three ways - torsionally, radially and laterally. This is fact. It isn't open to discussion.
Incidentally, the article explains why my rear Dura Ace C24 wheel rubs the brakes.
-Tim-
Incidentally, the article explains why my rear Dura Ace C24 wheel rubs the brakes.
-Tim-
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Perhaps you did not read to the bottom where it says that harshness due to radial stiffness is "a non issue, short of extreme cases."
The article actually explains wheel stiffness very well, focusing mostly on the more important aspect of lateral stiffness. I would encourage you to read it again with an open mind.
-Tim-
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Lateral stiffness can be felt when you carve.
Rotational stiffness can be felt on climbs/sprints.
Then again not everyone is in tune with their machinery. Doesn't mean they can't 'feel', it means they don't feel it.
I've seen many people throw a wheel into a truing stand and Laterally it is straight as an arrow, yet they have a hop (out of round) that is insanely huge. I couldn't imagine riding that.
On short hills, a rotational stiff wheel will be much more beneficial than a light wheel. I loved the aerodynamic gains from my Shimano C35's, but I hated the rotational stiffness loss. Of course the RS81 is just a mediocre wheel at best.
For me, a bigger tire needs a much stiffer wheel. thus I think for gravel, a carbon wheel is the perfect match.
Rotational stiffness can be felt on climbs/sprints.
Then again not everyone is in tune with their machinery. Doesn't mean they can't 'feel', it means they don't feel it.
I've seen many people throw a wheel into a truing stand and Laterally it is straight as an arrow, yet they have a hop (out of round) that is insanely huge. I couldn't imagine riding that.
On short hills, a rotational stiff wheel will be much more beneficial than a light wheel. I loved the aerodynamic gains from my Shimano C35's, but I hated the rotational stiffness loss. Of course the RS81 is just a mediocre wheel at best.
For me, a bigger tire needs a much stiffer wheel. thus I think for gravel, a carbon wheel is the perfect match.