Joe Remi

True, this is the place to discuss Bromptons and Bike Fridays.

AvnerBen

The March update has come at last!
The assembly process had to be restructured, some part of the locking mechanism had to be refined, The factory had to be tidied up, and two more hands had to be hired for the finishing job. These technicalities behind, they should now be on the road to full production. No numbers yet on production rates for the remaining 1700 odd orders in queue.
Peter addresses some concerns that came at the forum. Yes, the bicycle will just accommodate in a standard 62" suitcase. The cardboard packages in which the bike ships to customers are 65", because of cardboard strength.
Peter addresses in great detail the concerns about the strength of the helix mechanism and the prospect of dirt getting into the helix, sit post and between wheels and frame. If I understood correctly, the mechanism is somehow self cleaning. The helix is built to withstand am astronomical number of foldings.
Mudguards are under design. Peter hopes mudguards, universal front bag adapter and cases, both hard and soft, to be ready for summer.

Peter also addresses the issue of weight. The frame is not going to change in the near future. However, some parts may be replaced, saving up to 1.5 pounds. The prospect of weight just below 20 pounds for 10 speed bike is not trivial but feasible.

Peter also addresses the issue of tires. Additional high quality 24" tires from Kenda to be available from the site, later.

Will I get my helices for the summer vacation? (I am in the 1300's). Holding fingers... 👌

Joe Remi

Swapping parts for a weight savings of 1.5 lbs. is not going to create an under-20 lbs. 10-speed Helix.

RatonLaveur

I think it's rather good that Peter addresses all the points described here. Indeed 1.5 pounds knock-off is not going to drop the whole under 20 pounds but I'd rather have the founder and CEO of helix give a reasonable, albeit disappointing to some, estimate. I know all too many people in the industry (CEOs included) who'd have waved around the prospect of major optimisation and room for progress. It seems to me like Peter says "enough". He redesigned the bike fully. He took painstakingly long to bring his vision to a compromised by realistic outcome, and I for one appreciate the attitude he's displaying. Development creep and shifting goalposts is a scourge.
​​​good luck producing/getting the bikes!
​​

Raxel

a) Exactly WHAT parts? Helix doesn't have that many parts to shave weight to begin with, and I highly doubt they can shave that much without significantly increasing the price.
b) Even if he can somehow shave 1.5lbs, 10 speed bike will be 23.5lbs, not "just below 20 pounds".

Revoltingest

For the sake of accuracy, the update didn't say "under" or "below" 20 pounds.
Even a 1.5# reduction looks costly.
But my "costly" might be someone else's cheap.
$500 might do it, but I wouldn't spend it to make the change myself.
If Helix offered a weight reduction package based upon substituting lighter
components, this could be pretty cost effective...much cheaper than our
buying duplicate but lighter components after receiving the new bike.
I'd rather have Peter select the components, Helix do the assembly, while
I do no work other than paying a little extra. I could go for that.

AvnerBen

​​​​​​The update mentions:
1. custom parts - dropouts, swingarm, wheel to-wheel-connection - up to half pound.
2. Other components - saddle, cranksets and rims - up to one pound.

MrFlamey

I know we were asked not to share too much from the backer portal, but I think the issue of weight has been so tediously over-discussed here that having anything other than the full quote from Peter regarding weight is doing him a disservice. Here it is (this is just a small portion of the update):

Sounds to me like he first identifies a couple of areas for weight reduction that may be possible in the future, then mentions for those with more money than sense there are further possibilities if you are willing to spend on replacing standard components with currently available light weight parts. If I recall correctly, he also mentioned in a previous update that he went overboard with the Ti tube wall thickness when ordering it, and that they could get away with a thinner tube. Personally I don't really care, I just want to get my bike one day

Joe Remi

I don't think weight has been tediously over-discussed here. Some people just don't like talking about it, and for them there are dozens of other topics right here on this forum they can tediously over-discuss.

FolderBeholder

How true.
There's always SOMETHING to discuss ad naseum...

KentS

For instance, what about steel? I got a Torelli Zona Cross a couple of months ago and it feels pretty good to me. Is it possible to fabricate the Helix with standard triple butted tubes in the main (only) "triangle"? Does steel make the fabrication easier and cheaper? If you use overly thick titanium in the main tubes does that wreck the legendary feel of a titanium frame? Is there actually any such thing as a legendary feel using titanium if you aren't building a diamond frame anyway? How much weight does fine triple butted steel add to the build vs. over-sized plumbing pipe titanium?

Jipe

First, the legendary feel of titanium is... partly legendary several titanium frames do not provide this legendary feel (some are too stiff and uncomfortable, some are too soft and lack rigidity...).

Second, it depends of the type of titanium used and indeed of the diameter and thickness of the tubes.

Third, it depends of the shape of the frame and indeed, helix frame is different from a diamond frame what should change the feeling. For instance, the titanium fork and rear triangle of the Brompton do not provide any improvement on comfort, they just weight less than their steel equivalent. When I see the Seattle Cycle Burke, I have many doubts about its comfort.

About steel, yes, part of the costs will be reduced if the frame is made of steel instead of titanium but the complex CNC parts of Helix (and related costs) will remain.

The price of steel and weight of a steel frame depends a lot of the type of steel used. If you use the new stainless steel type like Columbus XCR or Reynolds 953, I am pretty sure you can make a frame that weight less than the current frame but the cost will probably not be much lower and again, there are all these CNC machined parts and complex design that impact both weight and cost.

ImplodingVoice

Great point. I know you're also referring to the quality of steel used. From what I know, the highest-quality steel endures time and wears better than the low-grade steel. I'm interested in the quality of the source materials more than the weight of those materials.

lurker222

Bike noob here. What niche does this fill that the Change bike does not?

Revoltingest

Much smaller fold.
And it's titanium.

chesky

How about real performance? I don't care about the size as long as it's folded, so Change Bike is better?

Lalato

This is a bike from a kickstarter project... and the number currently out in the wild is tiny. We're talking barely pushing a second digit. This means that no one here knows anything about the performance yet. All we know are the facts of the bike. It folds relatively small for its size. It is made of titanium. It has a single sided fork. I weighs over 20 pounds.

If you like the Change Bike... then get one. No harm, no foul.

GrantFlower

I believe this will be a quality product. They will start selling preorders in March. I have investigated Ti frames and it is not easy. The atmosphere affects the weld, hence it is more complicated than steel or aluminum. Realistically I would either do it in the USA or Ukraine. I have connections in Ukraine, and they have an abundant supply of legally obtained titanium I learned that there is a large grey market for Titanium that is not legal. Honestly last year sales doubled, and so far this year we are experiencing another doubling.....so a four fold increase in a short timespan. I have no idea what is going on but we are not setup for much more of an increase.

Revoltingest

We'll post that when we start receiving our bikes.
I've no doubt that Changebike is better for some people & applications.
But the fold is too large for me, & the Helix is cooler, so I'll stick with it.

Raxel

It is up to how you define performance.

If you ignore the folded size (I do, as long as they fit in car trunk) Change BIke is better in every possible ways (Cheaper, lighter, objectively stronger, comes in multiple sizes, can use suspension fork and knobbies, etc)
If you value the folded size a lot, Helix is better. But then there are folders with smaller wheels.. (Brompton, EEZZ, etc)

linberl

Isn't the Change bike either 26" or 700c? That makes comparison like apples and oranges, regardless of fold.

Ozonation

Sort of. I *think* the premise of the Helix is that at 24", it offers a near "full size" ride compared to most folders that have only 16" or 20" wheels. At the same time, unlike ChangeBike or other full size bikes that can be folded or disassembled, the Helix offers to fold down to near Brompton-sized folded dimensions without having to disengage any parts but still offer the compact form factor that a smaller wheeled bike offers when transporting folded. So, the Helix might represent that "sweet spot" between functionality, rideability, and foldability. We're all just waiting for actual use reviews from the new owners!

Joe Remi

Change Bike is full size and folds in half like Montague and some old (I think they still exist in Japan) Bridgestones. The comparison to Helix is uhhhh ridiculous.

towndock

So, 5 bikes shipped in February. 5 bikes shipped in March. Any sign of that rate improving?

tds101 

I agree. Comparing the Helix to the Change Bike is like comparing an SUV to a hatchback,... Totally rediculous.