cooker

Didn't you know? Here everybody insists that crippled old ladies must ride bikes everywhere! Or so I keep hearing.

SHBR

If the car is paid for, and the cost of ownership is reasonable, I could understand that.

Not here, or for most people who must have the latest greatest and are willing to sell their soul to have it.

If you have a car, use it, its a damn shame that there are so many people that have a car just for show, as in it gets driven less than most cyclists ride their bike.

cooker

Nobody disputes that you can. I would never argue that Maelochs shouldn't keep a car he is fond of, as that is totally up to him, but it is interesting to hear the reasoning.

As I said, totally up to you. Still - all those hypotheticals are up against an actual record of one use in 9 months. And if you can only take the lawnmower in on Sunday - wouldn't that also be your wife's day off? Why not use her car?

Maelochs

My wife works alternate weekends, and goes out of town on the Sundays off---she attends group exercise/socializing group in a nearby city, and goes to a specialty grocery store there for stuff which the generic markets in our tiny town don't carry.

You do seem to have a hard time accepting that people who don't do what you would do can still be decent and rational people.

If you really don't want to me to have a car ... offer me enough cash to make selling it worth my while.

If you will not ... well ... that pretty much wraps it up, eh?

It is funny when the hypothetical gets real ... money talks and the ones who walk away .....

cooker

LOL - I drive more than you, which I've made no secret of, so I'm certainly not making any moral judgements or criticism of your lifestyle or character. And it's not even about you. This thread is about "how to live a car-free life", and you voluntarily participated in it and offered up your personal details as fodder for discussion, and I thought it was kind of interesting to explore your reasons for not getting rid of a car you use so little, as a kind of case study.

Maelochs

I don't care how much you drive. Why would I? So you claim.

Well, then ... You Made it about me.



Anyway .... I have thought through most of my life and I try really hard to get all of it in balance. I have thought about the stuff you ask and the the stuff you hadn't thought to ask and the stuff you don't care enough to think about ... "The unexamined life is not worth living," some guy said.

I trend more towards Thoreau and living intentionally, myself.

By the way ....


Not here, in This forum. Really?

cooker

For a variety of reasons, including the fact that your taxes might be supporting my driving more than your own, or I might be polluting the air you breathe and so on. It's completely valid to care about other people's behaviour if it it affects you. However, in this instance, I was surprised you thought I was criticising you for driving once in 9 months, or implying you weren't "a decent and rational person" or holding myself up as a better example, when it's already a matter of public record that I drive more than you. So in this case, my point in mentioning it was to try to clear the air (ironic metaphor, when it comes to driving).

tandempower

Wouldn't it be amazing if people worried less about how car free they are relative to other people and more about how to live more car free?

Maelochs

I do not control how you live.

Everybody's behavior affects me. How much they drive, what they eat, what they buy ... but the real issues are beyond us. If everyone on this forum and everyone we know immediately stopped driving it would not matter At All.

This toxic society is likely to grow more toxic for quite a while, because most of the production machinery and processes which we consider too damaging to use in this country ... we sell to countries with laxer standards. meanwhile the rest of the world seeks to emulate the comfort and convenience--and ample energy availability--- we take for granted.

I do not care what you do unless you are immediately and deliberately harming others.

I as Much more interested in injustice than the environment--after a futile decade of campaigning and having seen No one catch on very much and our energy usage and pollution production continue to steadily climb .... and people continuing to think that individual efforts make Any difference .... and refusing to unify politically, so that nothing Really changes ....

We are choosing to poison ourselves, and bandaids on our souls like "I don't run the water while brushing my teeth and I keep the thermostat at 67 in the winter" .... laughable.

No matter what any of us do on the environmental front personally, things are going to get worse for quite a while.

Seriously ,... do you Really think whether or not I drove to the store this weekend affects your air quality to any real degree/ Any measurable degree? If so ... demonstrate it.

Driving less or more really isn't a big deal. That is one reason i don't care about "car-free" or 'car-light." unless about five billion people change their lifestyles drastically and immediately .....

Until our entire society radically changes it values ... not the values it professes to hold, but the values it lives by ... everything is screwed.

How many people are willing to dedicate their lives to changing the world? not two hours twice a week after work and one Sunday every other weekend .... how many people are willing to live their lives for others and for the future?

I don't care how much you drive. I don't care how much anybody drives.

When people care for each other as much as they care for themselves, we might have a chance.

Otherwise ... sorry but everybody here, myself included, are pretty much living a life of "I've got mine .... too bad for the other seven billion."

We get the world we deserve. In that world, we get the lives we deserve. If you are happy with the way you are living---not your income or lifestyle, but How you actually go about the business of being a living being ... good for you.

i got a little upset not because you or I drive more or less, but because you were trying to tell me to live by your standards, and I am not much impressed by your standards .... they might work fine for you, and power to you, but I don't think they'd work at all for me.

My goal is to devote more and more of my life to helping others who are the victims of injustice. I am lazy and selfish, but i am making progress and doing more each passing year to make the world better for the people for whom it is often the worst.

If I had to drive or fly or whatever to save more people from being tortured and killed, I would Not hesitate.

I spent a lot of time on "Save the Whales" and the fur seal pups and the Yanomami indians (which was really "save the rain forest") before I realized that if the human race did not learn to be honest, tolerant, and caring it would be best if we did poison ourselves off this planet, to let nature take another try.

"Car-free"? India had so many jealous men attacking women by throwing acid on their faces they had to pass a law making it difficult to buy acid ... but the law is not enforced. In a lot of India,. gang rapes are considered not great but not a big deal. In China, people are arrested for their faith and killed on demand to supply organs for China's organ transplant business.

While here in America, so long as the cable TV works, people simply don't care What happens, short- or long-term, even if it happens to their neighbors. "I'm okay, forget you. My favorite show is on."

Car free?

tandempower

Everything matters. Every little detail of the universe adds up to make up the universe.

This stuff is welcome discussion material in P&R, but it tends to get people in trouble here, FYI.

Again, P&R material; but I'd love to discuss the relationship between independence and collectivism/unification with you there.

You have to start somewhere.

If things have to get worse to get better, than aren't they getting worse when they are getting better? . . . generally speaking, that is.

Individual actions have cumulative and collective effects when combined with the actions of other individuals. Have you ever been in a stadium or even just a classroom? If you just focus on each individual separately, none of them usually do anything that has much effect on anyone else, but when you are dealing with the combined effects of all the other individuals conforming to and behaving relative to each others' behavior, it adds up to the noise, pollution, etc. and everything that comes with that.

P&R is really the place to discuss these ideas. Why don't you join that sub-forum?

It doesn't really matter, because those of us who do care about it can't switch off our consciences, so all we can really do is try to live in a way that rings true and share our thoughts with others.

Don't assume that people are always caring for themselves when they're acting selfishly and/or greedily/etc. Often they are harming themselves out of desire, pleasure, fear, anger, or some other combination of emotions and confusion.

Is it bad to discuss your standards with others who have different standards? Is it honest to pretend like you don't hold be accountable to the standards you consider relevant on some level, even while you may accept them on another level for being human?

Again, P&R material - but could you just consider that maybe LCF is an investment in social/environmental/economic justice. I'm sorry to mention this here when it's a topic that has to be discussed in P&R and not here, but just take it as an invitation to P&R. Here, I'll start a thread there: https://www.bikeforums.net/politics-...l#post20139171

Yes, you can concern yourself with all these other issues while living car-free. There's no conflict of interest.

Walter S

No that was you that made it about you by putting numerous personal details in your post. You’re obviously proud of your rational. Maybe that’s why you take offense when people read it and react with something other than praise and admiration.

Like most people Cooker treats your opinions with kid gloves. If you’re offended that’s more revealing about you than him.

Maelochs

Dude .... Seriousl;y?

I had no idea that you were such an internet novice.

let me try to augment your education.

Those little yellow, black, and white circles ( ) are supposed to represent a person laughing loudly. In internet communication, they mean, either "This is really funny" or "I think i am making a really funny joke."

Sorry no one told you that.

No need to thank me.

Machka 

Isn't this forum fun!!

cooker

Well, then you got upset over nothing, because if you reread my posts without your preconceptions, you may see that I did nothing of the sort.

cooker

some of that injustice is aggravated or perpetuated by North Americans' massive oil consumption (not yours).

Roody

And you seem to have a hard time accepting that we don't come here to read defenses (or attacks) of the automobile. We come here to discuss living without an automobile to the extent that each of us wants to do that. You don't have to chime in with your reasons for not being carfree, as that is not the subject of discussion.

cooker

He's actually very car light, and I have no beef with him. He ventured that drives his car only a couple of times a year, and in the spirit of the thread title "How to live a car free life" I asked about ways he could get rid of it. He has his reasons why not, which is up to him, but there was no reason to think I was demanding he live up to my standards, when I also own a car, and try to minimize my driving - I'm in the same situation as him.

Jim from Boston

Boston is probably one of the most Car-free cities in the world, and having a car is often detrimental. We live near the transportation hub of Kenmore Square. Our easily accessible Car-free / Car-light modalities at home and work are:

• subway and Commuter Rail
• taxis and Uber
• car rentals, including Zipcar
• shopping and personal services within walking distances
• a convenient place to stay overnight at work
• my cycle commutes are on pleasant routes in the reverse of the usual commuting direction.

Nonetheless we own a car (with a deeded parking space). We bought it after the second child, and it became too hard to take a stroller on the rush hour subway while escorting the first one to school. Even though I’m the main breadwinner, it’s my wife’s car, and I have to negotiate to use it, now also with my adult son.

I’ve been an avid cyclist for decades, so that and other Car-free transportation is fine with me. I posted to this thread on LCF, "What's awesome about Living Car Free":

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

…I’m car-lite too, mostly due to family activities, but I’m the most amenable to car-free. My major motivation to ride is not sociopolitical, or environmental, but physical. However, a useful and enjoyable side benefit, it enhances my reputation….

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

And I have equally pleasant driving and mass transit alternatives…Sometime ago I tried to schematically diagram the comparisons between my three transportation modes:

Overall Satisfaction:
BIKE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN>>>CAR

Intensity of Focus:
BIKE>>>CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>TRAIN

Convenience:
CAR>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>BIKE>>TRAIN

voyager1

Getting back to the OP. I do wonder how most women he tries to date or ask out respond to his lifestyle of car free. I imagine somewhere like NY or Boston where a car is an enormous expense not having a car wouldn’t seem weird.... but Boulder CO though?

tandempower

This topic comes up from time to time in the LCF subforum. It should be indexed under the general theme of "discouraging LCF using social exclusionary tactics." Maybe there's an automotive marketing forum somewhere you could raise the issue in terms of how to promote driving and car-ownership by refusing to date people who LCF.

Maybe attractive women/people could sign up for rewards/bonuses/etc. by submitting proof of how many dates they rejected because the person asking them out didn't have a car. It would be sort of like the practice of offering bounties for scalps or for returning escaped slaves, but with less violence and external scarring.

cooker

He's successful in his career, well off and charming, and I imagine, if he's looking, he could find a fair number of men or women who might be interested in dating him based on those factors. In fact, some might be more put off by his frequent and possibly extended travels out of country than by his home lifestyle, but if his car-free status is a concern, better they not date anyway.

voyager1

Well actually, the reason I mentioned it was because he point blank talks about it in the video briefly. I was just curious that was all. I consider myself a conscious car light even before I got my bike this past year. I think in the United States many people would be very judgmental about not having a car. Back in my single days a long time ago, I tried an online dating site and one of the things it asked was if you had a car.

Right now my wife and I have a car and a minivan (and two small kids). I told my wife that I have no intentions of buying myself another vehicle. When I retire (which is a couple decades away) I plan on getting rid of my car. We will just be a one car family. Part of this is money and part of this about living my beliefs and I feel very strongly that humanity's consumerism is what is oiling the gears of destroying the planet.

I have no doubts that my Honda Civic HF can go plus 20 years. Americans today buy new cars just because they get bored with the one they have.

voyager1

Fair points. After watching some of his videos, Boulder CO looks like a very cool place to live.

tandempower

If you are a materialistic person looking for materialistic friends/dates, then there are other ways to do it besides having an impressive car. In fact, if you would drive a car that is less than impressive, you might do better impressing a materialistic date than with a pathetic car. To achieve this alternative-materialistic effect, try buying other expensive items to impress your date, like expensive tech, jewelry, clothing, shoes, or ask them out to an expensive restaurant but then tell them you LCF on principle so they'll have to either meet you there or you'll have to meet somewhere and walk/bike together.

Whatever you choose to do, you have to be confident and willing to walk away from someone who doesn't live up to your standards from what you expect. Few dates want to deal with someone who is desperate enough to try anything to impress them, because that would make it difficult for them to give an excuse to get out the relationship when it no longer suits them. Just my opinion.

They buy them to keep up with the Jones', I think. Conformity is sad. It is blind materialism/consumerism. People blow off their environmental conscience by telling themselves they can't change the world or by comparing themselves to others who are doing worse than they are. Still, you can't really generalize about 'Americans' or any other group. Doing so promotes stereotyping and collective identification, which is toxic. Instead of saying, 'Americans,' I would say 'many car buyers' and then leave the national identity out of the equation. Whatever you have to say about them will probably apply to plenty of people all over the world who share a similar lifestyle and economic behavior.

SHBR

My wife has been car free, gosh, her WHOLE life.

Car ownership has never been a topic of discussion, we met each other for the first time near a subway station of all places.

I do find its a bit sad that there are so many "commercial couples" out there though.

Surely there are higher values than materialistic values.