Winfried

Hello,

After four years of silent use, the Alfine 11 (the original: SG-S700) has been making creaking noises when pedaling.

Since the ball bearing cage of the drive-side ball bearing (part 18) is broken, I suppose the other two ball bearings (13 and 36) might also be worn out by now.

So I need to extract the Alfine core assembly from its hub.

This video
from Dan Burkhart shows how to use the TL-S701 "Cone Removal Tool", but how should I use the two other (TL-S702 Cone Removal Tool and the TL-S704 Mounting Tool) ?

Thank you.

Picture source : EV-SG-S700-3092A.pdf

Dan Burkhart 

The TLS 701 is the removal tool. The TLS 702 is for setting the drive side cone.
TLS 704 is for setting the seals. This hub is oil bath lubricated and requires special seals that the 8 speed does not need.

Winfried

Thanks. Are the TLS 702 and TLS 704 obvious to use, even without any experience working on IGHs ?

wschruba

There is a dealer service manual out there about breaking the A11 down to the axle assembly. If you can't find it, I'll be able to upload it tonight.

It assumes basic mechanical competence, but almost nothing else. The directions are very easy to follow.

Winfried

Yes, please.

https://si.shimano.com doesn't reply and Google didn't return hits.

wschruba

Attached is the dealer manual for the A11. Unlike the 8 speed hubs, the planetaries do not need clocking during a break-down, since they aren't taken apart.

It is rather easy to follow, again, assuming basic mechanical competence.

Dan Burkhart 

The eight speed planetaries don't require clocking, or phasing, or timing, or whatever term you wish to use, if the carrier assembly is removed from the axle. That is only required if the carrier assembly is further disassembled which is seldom if ever necessary.

Winfried

Thanks a lot for the Overhaul manual !

Pardon my ignorance, but what do you mean with "The eight speed planetaries don't require clocking, or phasing, or timing, or whatever term you wish to use, if the carrier assembly is removed from the axle." ?

Dan Burkhart 

Any geared mechanism with stepped multiple ratios and more than one countershaft, or in the case of planetary gearing, planet pinion shafts, requires that the countershafts or planet pinion shafts be timed,(or phased.) Not something you need to worry about if you don't disassemble the gear carrier.
On hubs that do not have a removable gear carrier sub assembly, such as a Sachs 7 speed as shown in this video, phasing the planetaries is a critical step in re assembly.

Winfried

How IGH's actually work is still beyond my comprehension, but thanks much for the infos :-)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0p_1QSUsbsM

Winfried

£93/$122 in tools for just a one-shot

Winfried

The bad news: The RHS cone woudn't come out, even after following Shimano's instructions, and
Dan Burkhart's video :





Any idea what it could be?

The good news: Even though 1) the bearing balls are still loose on the RHS since I couldn't replace that part after pyring out its broken race, and 2) the other two bearing races looked in good shape so I left them… for some reason, the creaking noise is gone. Maybe some tiny bits of shrapnel from the RHS bearing cage remained in the assembly, and were removed during this operation.

Thank you.

wschruba

I can tell you that the first time it needs to come apart, it requires a scary amount of force to drive the assembly through.

If it is damaged beyond repair, PM me. I have a damaged hub with good carriers and new axle assembly that I would part with for a reasonable price.

Winfried

Thanks. Since Shimano said "gently", I didn't dare hitting it harder, but I'll give it another try.

After almost five years of daily use, the hub works fine otherwise. It looks like I only need to change the RHS ball bearing.

As for the four tools: In Europe, they're available for ~60€ from Bike-Discount in Germany.

Winfried

Turns out you do have to hit the right hand cone a bit harder with the TL-S701. I could successfully replace the RHS "Ball Retainer P (3/16" x 13) " (part 18).

Likewise, when putting the cone back using the TL-S702, you must hit it hard enough for the two tabs to show through:


At this point, I have two problems:

1. The wheel has been suffering from sideway play for a few months now. Does the hub look normal to you, especially the "Ball Retainer S (3/16" x 26)" (part 13 in the diagram)?
2. Also, after putting everything back together, the cassette joint "dialer" isn't going as far as it used to (about 1/4 of a turn), resulting in a loose shifter cable: I must shift up two or three times before the cable tightens. I did check with the Shimano tool, and the anchor bolt is still at the required 184mm so the issue appears to be in the Alfine somehow.

Has someone experienced this, or could offer some hints?

Thank you.

https://vimeo.com/377621740

Winfried

Thanks partly to Dan Burkhart, I'm back in the saddle again.

It appears I didn't hit the drive side cone hard enough with the TL-S702 for the two tabs to show through, which prevented the driver plate from sitting just right. That, in turn, kept the cassette joint from rotating all the way to the left like it should, which made for a loose shifter cable. Not sure there's a way to check for this before putting everything back together, though, so the lesson: Hit it hard, baby.

A small lateral play remains in the wheel which I can't explain since both cones are tight. I'll just live with it.