bblair

I had a beautiful, blue Paramount stolen on a tour (TOSRV) in 1977. Now, I have found a frame and would like to restore it to relive past glories.

I know that these projects can get to be a money pit. Not sure if I should send it to Waterford for a complete paint and overhaul, or do some myself or leave as is. Should I try to restore to original parts, meaning full Campy, 52/42 and a 5 speed freewheel, or upgrade to modern parts and wheel. Old stuff is out there, but either trashes or crazy expensive.

I do plan to ride it, so not just for show, but not my main ride for long and especially very hilly rides.

Will upload pictures as I go.

merziac

We need pics now, we're not the patient type when you say Paramount, restore and "I have found a frame".

I would encourage you to evaluate carefully what you want it to do. You can keep the original vibe by retaining some of the original parts but if you make it more rideable, you will ride it more, it usually takes some experimenting to get where you want to be.

bblair

I understand. But....I haven't even received it yet! Just thinking out loud and looking on Ebay for parts and trying to decide which direction to go. Thanks for chiming in.

SurferRosa

There are so many options. Starting out will depend greatly on the current paint and future needs.

I bought this 1960 Paramount as a single speed, so I had basically start from scratch. I decided on a budget build with as much vintage Campy as I could grab on the cheap. It's a hodgepodge, with a gran sport crank, super record brake levers, record hubs, NR derailleurs, a new cartridge bb, japanese pedals, and (alas) modern calipers. But it stops. And it didn't break the bank.

merziac

No worries, we're like a dog with a bone, and we love Paramounts.

crank_addict

Sounds like a terrific project. Enjoy the experience and do whatever fills your fantasy. No rules is best.

Oh, and here's a new thread about the subject. Thank you old Schwinn and company ;")

wrk101

If you want to stay correct and not go broke, the cheapest route includes these two steps:

1. Accept paint wear and tear as patina. Its not a new bike, and its just fine IMHO to show its age.

2. Find a second Paramount, from the same year. Do a parts transplant, then sell the "donor" frame on Ebay. This will be much cheaper than doing a piece meal buy.

Another cheaper alternative is to find a bike from the same era and drivetrain, but not with the Paramount name. Less desirable named bikes can be found with similar parts. Maybe the purist would not approve, but most would appreciate it.

My 1974 Paramount was bought as a frameset only. The guy I bought it from used it as a donor bike to build his Paramount! I built it up with parts that were acquired on other bikes that were not Paramounts. I have no doubt not all the parts are Paramount "correct", but its close enough for me. I believe the paint and decals are original. The thing about decals and paint, its only original once. You can spend a lot of $$ trying to recreate original paint, but its still not original. On the other hand, Schwinn bought parts from the same suppliers that supplied other brands of bikes.

Darth Lefty 

I would say, don't worry about "correct" unless it's also really a "restoration," and if you want to ride it regularly, it's not. People who bought and owned these bikes altered them to suit themselves. Modern drivetrains especially are so, so much better, even if you string them up with friction shifters.

My own (my Dad's) Paramount is sitting, because I've finally come to accept that the 80mm stem my Dad put on it years ago took it from two sizes too big for him down to one size too big and it's never going to really fit me either. I'm 5ft8 and it's a 23 inch. I just haven't decided what to do with it. My kids might get tall enough but they have no connection to my Dad, he passed when the youngest was 7mo.

Pcampeau

Congratulations on getting a Paramount again after so many years. Do you know which era Paramount it is? Do you know which type? Is it a P15-9 touring model or a racing model? They can still be built up how you like but different models will present different options.

RiddleOfSteel

Having a bike stolen is horrible. And that bike being a Paramount, in its heyday? Gutting. So glad to hear you have a 'new' old one arriving!

My 'first' Paramount (I sound horrible saying this, but I'm selling the second, newer one!) and essentially my forever bike was nearly done for when it and I crossed paths at a volunteer night at a co-op. Snapped steerer, missing parts, hogged out brake bridge, roasted decals and rough paint. It was in a really bad way. Time, some money, and repairs. IIRC, by the time I got done with repainting it myself and adding decals, I was into the frameset $350 or so. I built it up with a bunch of first and second generation Suntour Superbe components that I had fetched for super cheap. Had it like that for a year, then tasted the forbidden fruit that was/is 700C wheels (lighter, stiffer, stronger than the old single wall 27" ones) and light tires. I've had it in a handful of component configurations, finally settling on a "few of my favorite things" setup with a triple (Seattle hills), a Brooks B17, compact drop bar with STI levers, etc. I've had the bike with Campagnolo electronic shifting, and it was great until the new yet old battery died and I shy away from paying hundreds for a new one. The original Campagnolo headset finally gave up staying adjusted, and I have a new used headset in there now.

That's a lot of text to say, don't be afraid to let the bike be a blank canvas. Mine certainly was. It was even a P15 with the longer chainstays (I love race bikes and tight geometry, and would thus love a P13), which I was unsure about liking initially. Not to worry, it's got great proportions and is a strong yet comfortable frame. Stiff modern wheels makes it a race bike out of the saddle. Vintage wheels and ~30mm tires make it a mileage champion. These Paramounts are the freaking best. Great in every form!

bblair

That is a beautiful bike!

I hadn't considered a "donor bike," that is a great idea. My bike back in the 70's was bought used, so mainly Campy, but Suntour bar-end shifters and freewheel, and, not completely sure, but I think Universal sidepull brakes. I have some old Campy pedals, but I'll go with Look so I can use my shoes.

The big choice, as I see it, that I have to make is wheels and drive train. Old style is 120mm spacing, which was 5 or 6 speed friction shifting. Newer stuff is, I think, 126 or 130mm, so that might mean a frame adjustment.

bblair

Did you have your Paramount professionally painted? From here, it looks really great.

davester

120mm OLD was 5-speed or Ultra-6 (i.e. narrow spacing). 126mm was 6 or 7 speed freewheel or a 7-speed hyperglide cassette freehub. 130mm is for 8 through 11 speed cassette freehubs. Stretching a frame from 120 to 126 is "usually" OK, though the brake bridge should be clamped while doing so to avoid breaking one of the brazes. 120mm to 130mm is a more hazardous endeavor and there is a small to moderate chance of bending or breaking things even if care is taken. Also, you will need to realign the dropouts after widening or suffer future broken axles and/or dropouts (ask me how I know).

If I was doing this, I'd probably go to 126mm OLD and use a freehub/cassette system. I'm currently running two bikes with Nuovo Record hubs fitted with 7-speed freewheels and have broken several axles doing so, even though the dropouts were properly aligned. In fact, I just broke one last week, riding a rough road. A cassette would be more reliable.

Another alternative is to use 126mm OLD and use Sheldon's "8 Of 9 On 7 -- or 9 of 10 on 7" method. This involves using a 7-speed hyperglide hub with 9 or 10 speed cassettes but missing one cog on each. See here for details: https://www.sheldonbrown.com/k7.html

As for the overall question of how to outfit the bike, my personal preference is to go with vintage parts modified to give today's performance. For me, this means getting the gearing right by either using something like a Red Clover triplizer on Campy cranks, or a TA crankset with compact crank sized chainrings, or an IRD or Holdsworth vintage-look compact crank, also perhaps a Suntour cyclone GT derailleur that can handle pretty much any type of gearing. Also, its important to use modern low friction lined cables and koolstop pads to upgrade the brakes, etc. if you're going with vintage brakes. Why spoil the classic looks of a bike with modern components when their performance is only marginally better, if at all? YMMV.

bblair

Serial number indicates a 1968 model, so I am assuming 120mm spacing.

Digging through my box o'stuff, I have an old Campy Record front derailleur and a Chorus rear.

I see a Campy triple on ebay and am wondering if my stuff will work with that. Back in the day, I had a 52/42 front and a 14-26 rear. No way could I push those gears up hills now! My current bike is compact 34-32 and that is perfect.

I had not considered stress on axles due to dropouts not being parallel. Thanks for sharing.

SurferRosa

Yes, our old Paramounts are 120mm rear spacing. 126 arrived on the scene around 1980. 6- and 7-speed is my sweet spot, so I widened my 1960 Paramount 6mm. It's pretty easy to do with either 2x4 or a set of nuts/bolts. Youtube offers some good videos on this.

RiddleofSteel did it himself. It does look great.

squirtdad

pro tip, become a paid member and leverage C&V sales sub section.....you can see a lot goodness and get some great response with WTB.

all depends on what you want to do: time capsule orgingal, same feel as original but more rideable by using select newer parts, full modern parts, etc

bikemike73 

There is no " right or wrong" when restoring a bike the way YOU want it.

ME......I am a purist so I want all original from the period. I picked up a 1973 P-10 Lemon Yellow 22 in frame bike in October !!!

LOVE IT !!!!

Drove 367 miles ONE WAY to get it !!!!!!!!!

The front wheel was a Fiamme Yellow label , and according to Richard Schwinn " no Paramount would leave the factory with mis-matched rims. I had emailed him, and he responded.

So I searched for a front rim to match the back. A Weinnman clincher rim with raised dimples.

I had to get it from ENGLAND !!!!!!

VERY RARE rim !!!

Took me about an hour and a half to respoke the rim.

It is now all original to 1973 !!!!!

As far as the paint for ANY bike.....its only original ONCE. So unless it is really bad, I leave the paint .

Good luck and don't rush !!!

Take your time

squirtdad

sheldons how to using a 2x4 https://www.sheldonbrown.com/frame-spacing.html

I dids this once 126 to 135.... it works well, but is nerve wracking on the first try

davester

If you're looking at a 144BCD Campy Strada (aka Nuovo Record) triple (which would be the appropriate vintage), be aware that it has a 36T small chainring, which is sort of ridiculous (What were they thinking?!). I think the newer Campy triples aren't much better but I'm not sure. There were some smaller aftermarket 31T chainrings made for the Strada by Jim Merz that will fit, but they are as rare as hens' teeth. Better to go with the triplizer IMHO. That's what I did and it can go all the way down to 24T I believe, using standard chainrings. If doing either, you will likely need to get a wider bottom bracket axle than normal. This is no bid deal, and the Red Clover website has a discussion of how to go about this.

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks! Yup, painted it myself (as surferrosa pointed out). Sanded the primer on my Camaro's large, stock, buffet-table spoiler even.

Frame setting to 130mm would be a cinch by a professional. That opens up a lot of good things. No pun intended..

bocobiking

I had my 1974 repainted at Waterford and put on parts that are ride-able for me, but still kind of vintage: Sugino AT triple, Huret Duopar derailleur, old Huret shifters, Tektro dual pivot brakes, Weinmann brake levers, new rims and NOS hubs, etc. Perfectly ride-able in hilly Boulder, and I like its looks.

bblair

That is exactly what my old bike looks like bocobiking! Are you sure you didn't steal it in 1977? OK, I had high flange hubs, so you're off the hook.

I am going to print your picture with instructions, "make it look like this."

bblair

Got it! Just unboxed and in better condition than I thought. Headset is only half there, so I need bearings and such.

Drillium Dude 

Interesting mix of lugs, braze-ons an Campy 1010A long dropouts. What year is this supposed to be? This could get expensive if you go full-resto because I'm sure that's a repaint and you'd want to start there. Or not

Nice looking basis for a bike, whichever way you go, and I personally like this lug set better than the more common Nervex Pro.

DD

Steelman54 

That looks pretty nice from here, if you want to ride it, it seems ready to go, just build it up. if your looking to fully repaint/restore, Franklin Frames isn't far from Columbus. Mike