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Using normal standard mountain bike on icy roads?

Old 09-27-18, 06:10 AM
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Using normal standard mountain bike on icy roads?

Hi guys,

preparing for the cold cold winter here in London, UK.

is it really dangerous to ride a normal standard carerra mountain bike on icy cold roads? 100% neccessary to swap tires? I'd be willing to go extra slow.

thanks
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Old 09-27-18, 09:42 AM
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Rubber just doesn't grip ice. Even a fat bike with 4" tires will go down on ice (though at 4" it does go down a lot slower so that you can get a foot down). Tread helps with snow, doesn't nothing with ice.

Some people risk it anyways but I won't. Before studded tires were commonly available I'd talk to people who biked in the winter, every one of them had at one point slammed into the pavement and broken something.

I'd be willing to go extra slow.
Time-wise, it would be a lot faster to just switch tires.
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Old 09-27-18, 11:58 AM
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You can do such stuff if you have enough skills. In my observation most Finns get through the winter on regular MTB tires, but they do it every winter since childhood. People who just start to ride on iced roads will fall many times before acquiring even minimal skills. These falls can be quite brutal. On studded tires you can still fall when going far enough overboard, so they will leave you room to learn.
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Old 09-27-18, 10:14 PM
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You are riding in London? If so, I suspect that you will be fine with standard MTB tires, as it is not cold enough for long enough to create really serious issues (like those of us in the northern US and Canada commonly deal with.) Since the ground is not thoroughly frozen, any icy encounters should be very brief.

For ice that lasts for significant periods of time, I'd recommend studs. I've done icy winters without them, but it was not particularly enjoyable.
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Old 10-01-18, 02:16 PM
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Old 10-02-18, 05:55 AM
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Using normal standard mountain bike on icy roads?
Originally Posted by topshopper19
Hi guys,

preparing for the cold cold winter here in London, UK.

is it really dangerous to ride a normal standard carerra mountain bike on icy cold roads? 100% neccessary to swap tires? I'd be willing to go extra slow.

thanks
I perennially post:
Originally Posted by Rollfast
I've never used studded tires. If it becomes too difficult or dangerous to get about on mtb type treads around here then I don't ride
Originally Posted by mcours2006
That's good advice. However, sometimes it's hard to tell what the conditions are the farther away from home you have to ride, and you don't know if you need studs until it's too late….

Also, living where we are there are many months when the temperature in the AM is below freezing but daytime temps are above, so moisture in the air sometimes forms slick patches on the road.

If I didn't have the security of studded tires I'd give up probably 30% of my commutes just because there's an odd chance that there's slick conditions somewhere.temps are above, so moisture in the air sometimes forms slick patches on the road.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
Nicely said @mcours2006. Early after joining BikeForums in 2008, I deliberated the use of studded tires, and was swayed by this post from Rochester, NY (on a thread questioning the value of fenders vs studded tires
Originally Posted by tsl
I dunno, maybe it's my age showing. Here in Rochester, at least along my commute, there's always ice that miraculously didn't get salted awayI figure gunk washes off quickly and easily. Broken bones would keep me off the bike for weeks while they mend
Originally Posted by anx
I wish I had mine today for 5-10 minutes for the icy patches I hit (see above),but with the warmth they would have overkill for 90% of my ride.

Does using them unnecessarily on 'normal' conditions wear them at all I wonder?
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
Carbide studs are reputed to last a long time. I ride studded tires all winter from December to March, nearly entirely on bare, wet, and/or salted pavement.

My first pair lasted several seasons, and may be still useable…

I really like the Schwalbe tires because I don't seem to feel the increased rolling resistance many claim for more aggressively treaded studded tires.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
On one of my worst commuting days in decades, the roads were so slick, that cars couldn’t make it up one of my hills, yet I could with my studded tires.
Originally Posted by chefisaac
LISTEN to @Jim from Boston

he knows his $hit!

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 10-02-18 at 08:02 AM.
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Old 10-05-18, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by topshopper19
Hi guys,

preparing for the cold cold winter here in London, UK.

is it really dangerous to ride a normal standard carerra mountain bike on icy cold roads? 100% neccessary to swap tires? I'd be willing to go extra slow.

thanks
Yes, it's possible...I did it for the better part of 30 years...but you will fall at some point. Even if you ride as carefully as possible, the front wheel will scrub out and you'll go down faster than you ever thought possible. A studded tire on ice is much better and results in far fewer falls.

That said, I still commute most of the time on a mountain bike with knobs but without studs. Studded tires are just horrible to ride on! They are heavy and if there isn't any ice on the road, noisy as all get out. I just have a bike that is set up for studs that I grab when the roads are bad. But most of the time, I just use the mountain bike and some extra care if there are patches of ice and snow on the ground.

Most people won't agree with this because it is kind of counterintuitive, but I also use clipless for all my rides. I'm not worried about getting my foot down during a fall on ice because putting a foot out to catch you isn't going to catch you at all and is more likely to result in injury. I've crashed more times then I can count...even at speeds that are kind of stupid on ice...but I've never had a serious injury.

Part of the trick is to train yourself to resist the urge to put out your legs or arms to "catch" you. You aren't going to "catch" anything and you are more likely to break a bone doing so. If...no, when you crash (which is still possible with studs), keep everything attached to the bike as much as possible. Let as much of the metal bits of the bike as possible hit the ground first. This will take a lot of the energy of the impact away.

During and after the impact, relax. Don't tense up and "brace for impact". Bracing for impact is the single worst thing you can do in any crash situation. Your muscles are tight, your bones and joints are rigid and any shockwave from the impact will travel along those rigid members causing damage along the way. If you are relaxed, the impact dissipates in the muscles and the joint absorb the impact better. If you become a rag doll, you can still get hurt, for sure, but the injury will be lessened.

Finally, a bit of prudence is warranted even if you have studded tires on a bicycle. You may have them but odds are that the idiots in the cars don't and odds also are that the idiots in the cars are...well...idiots. They will be driving too fast for the conditions and they will claim that mysterious "black ice" jumped out and grabbed the wheel and that no one could have known there was ice lurking under that wet pavement. It will all be on the police report. You'll be squished but at least the paperwork will have been done

Just to be clear, I'm not saying don't ride, just use a bit of judgement. Sometimes it's better to take the bus than have your 3rd dimension invalidated.
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Old 10-05-18, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
…Finally, a bit of prudence is warranted even if you have studded tires on a bicycle. You may have them but odds are that the idiots in the cars don't and odds also are that the idiots in the cars are...well...idiots.

They will be driving too fast for the conditions and they will claim that mysterious "black ice" jumped out and grabbed the wheel and that no one could have known there was ice lurking under that wet pavement
.

It will all be on the police report. You'll be squished but at least the paperwork will have been done

Just to be clear, I'm not saying don't ride, just use a bit of judgement. Sometimes it's better to take the bus than have your 3rd dimension invalidated.
Nicely said @cyccocommute. I have posted:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I’m an early morning reverse, outbound urban commuter from downtown to a suburb, and for winter commuting I ride Marathon Winter studded tires.

When it snows, especially at night, I seek out major thoroughfares, since they are the first plowed and the best maintained. I find the Marathon Winters are rideable through up to about three inches of snow.

There is usually not much traffic in my direction at that time of day, and but major concern for snowy roads is still traction for the traffic. I wear a rearview mirror and carefully monitor upcoming (and oncoming) cars for skidding.

On one occasion I was able to go up a hill that the cars could not negotiate, so I enjoyed a short traffic-free ride until traffic entered from side streets further up the hill.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
Generally I get kudos or just indifference towards my cycling, mostly as a year-round commuter here in Metro Boston, even after my serious accident four years ago.

The most hostile remarks, particularly in Winter, are from those drivers who fear for themselves to hit me.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 10-05-18 at 11:03 AM.
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Old 10-07-18, 07:01 AM
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Studded tires can be helpful, but always stay aware of other dangers too.

I have no issues with the noise or lesser traction of spikes. Only thing maybe, winter riding requires extra attention (e.g. road condition, weather) meaning you can get weary more easily (especially after a day’s work). Getting enough sleep, staying hydrated, having warm clothing ... are all things to very much pay attention to as well. Dangers like ninja’s and road idiots remain ever present.

I’ve tried studded tires last winter for the 1st time. All I can say is, I will do so again next winter.
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Old 10-07-18, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Bikewolf
Studded tires can be helpful, but always stay aware of other dangers too.

I have no issues with the noise or lesser traction of spikes. Only thing maybe, winter riding requires extra attention (e.g. road condition, weather) meaning you can get weary more easily (especially after a day’s work). Getting enough sleep, staying hydrated, having warm clothing ... are all things to very much pay attention to as well... Dangers like ninja’s and road idiots remain ever present.

I’ve tried studded tires last winter for the 1st time. All I can say is, I will do so again next winter.
... Ninjas...?

is that... bike slang? Like for ppl that don’t use blinkie lights or something?
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Old 10-07-18, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by ripkin


... Ninjas...?

is that... bike slang? Like for ppl that don’t use blinkie lights or something?
Yup. Ninjas don’t want to be seen so they travel in the dark without lights. They can be kind of a surprise when you run across one.

There are also salmon ninjas which are people riding at night without lights and the wrong way. I got yelled at once by one because my light “blinded” him.
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Old 10-08-18, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute
There are also salmon ninjas which are people riding at night without lights and the wrong way. I got yelled at once by one because my light “blinded” him.
Obviously, I do not know the details, but lights without a cut-off and/or helmet lights directed straight into the eyes of others can create as much danger as no lights, and in this case squaring the danger on others. At times the offending party are actually runners with helmet lights pointing up.
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Old 10-08-18, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
Obviously, I do not know the details, but lights without a cut-off and/or helmet lights directed straight into the eyes of others can create as much danger as no lights, and in this case squaring the danger on others. At times the offending party are actually runners with helmet lights pointing up.
If the rider is riding on the proper side of the road, no bicycle light will interfere with his or her ability to see. My lights have a wide spread but they don't interfere with motorists coming from the other direction and those are sitting about 6 to 8 feet nearer to me than a cyclist on the other side of the street.

On the other hand, a bicyclist...not a jogger, but a bicyclist...who is riding counterflow to traffic has no expectation of me dimming, dipping or turning off my lights. His contraflow riding was already endangering himself and me. Every state in the US has laws that require bicyclist to ride with traffic, not against it. I can't make accommodation to people who are breaking the law out of "courtesy".

Nor am I going to "blind" him (or her) all that much because they are already riding into the lights of cars coming at them.
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Old 10-08-18, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by topshopper19
Hi guys,

preparing for the cold cold winter here in London, UK.

is it really dangerous to ride a normal standard carerra mountain bike on icy cold roads? 100% neccessary to swap tires? I'd be willing to go extra slow.

thanks
London doesn't have cold winters. I ride year round in Vancouver and I think we get a little more frost than London. It's rare to need studs here so I wouldn't bother in London as long as you have some alternate form of transportation to use once in a while. I bought a set of studded tires a couple of years ago and did end up using them for a couple weeks of abnormal weather but they aren't pleasant to ride on. Usually, around here they salt or treat the roads so even if it's below freezing there isn't much ice. I think just a regular bike is fine, knobby tires on a MTB won't help with traction vs slicks unless you're riding on packed snow.
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Old 10-08-18, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by 2_i
.... most Finns get through the winter on regular MTB tires, but they do it every winter since childhood.
Winter road conditions aren’t uniform or calibrated.
If it’s cold enough, ice and hardpack becomes coarse instead of slick. Riding on regular tires offers no particular challenge.
However, this can to some extent be offset by traffic.
Traffic polishes the ice/hardpack and make it slicker.
At a few degrees warmer, that matted, grippy surface never appears, and each passing vehicle merely deepens the sheen on the already glossy slick road.
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Old 10-08-18, 03:00 PM
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Originally Posted by dabac
Winter conditions aren’t uniform or calibrated.
yup, fun but also maddening ...



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Old 10-08-18, 03:43 PM
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Salmon-style

Originally Posted by cyccommute


Yup. Ninjas don’t want to be seen so they travel in the dark without lights. They can be kind of a surprise when you run across one.

There are also salmon ninjas which are people riding at night without lights and the wrong way. I got yelled at once by one because my light “blinded” him.
I didn’t know that was a thing. Thanks— new to all this.

I occasionally ride on the sidewalk when the amount of traffic at certain intersections freaks me out, and there are usually no pedestrians out during the times I ride so I don’t feel like I’m jeopardizing anyone moving by foot. But am I breaking some kind of unspoken cycling code? Also, I have been known to ride “salmon-style” for short stretches while I’m waiting for a hole in traffic to cross to the proper side of the stream. Should I not be doing that, either? lol.




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Old 10-08-18, 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by topshopper19
Hi guys,

preparing for the cold cold winter here in London, UK.
Wow! How do you know already that it will be cold?

Originally Posted by topshopper19
is it really dangerous to ride a normal standard carerra mountain bike on icy cold roads?
Yes. Very dangerous.

Originally Posted by topshopper19
100% neccessary to swap tires? I'd be willing to go extra slow.
My estimate only 50% neccessary.
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Old 10-08-18, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by dabac
Winter road conditions aren’t uniform or calibrated.
If it’s cold enough, ice and hardpack becomes coarse instead of slick. Riding on regular tires offers no particular challenge.

However, this can to some extent be offset by traffic.
Traffic polishes the ice/hardpack and make it slicker.
At a few degrees warmer, that matted, grippy surface never appears, and each passing vehicle merely deepens the sheen on the already glossy slick road
.
Good point, @dabac; adds another possibly unanticipated condition remediable by studded tires.
Originally Posted by Rollfast
I've never used studded tires. If it becomes too difficult or dangerous to get about on mtb type treads around here then I don't ride.

I learned the same lesson driving.
Originally Posted by wolfchild
Studded tires are worth the expense. Mine are 8 years old and still good. I only use them when I feel it's necessary, that's why they last for such a long time...It's worth it even if only needed few times during the winter season
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
...BTW @wolfchild, see my counter-proposal (link) above.
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston
I ride studded tires all winter from December to March, nearly entirely on bare, wet, and/or salted pavement...

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 10-08-18 at 04:59 PM. Reason: added second quote by Jim from Boston
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Old 10-08-18, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by ripkin
Also, I have been known to ride “salmon-style” for short stretches while I’m waiting for a hole in traffic to cross to the proper side of the stream. Should I not be doing that, either? lol.
I am sure that every cyclists who posts on bikeforums has broken traffic laws at one time or another... It's OK, do whatever is necessary to make your commute safe, don't worry about what other people think and don't get too legalistic about it. Use discretion and common sense.
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Old 10-09-18, 08:19 AM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by ripkin


I didn’t know that was a thing. Thanks— new to all this.

I occasionally ride on the sidewalk when the amount of traffic at certain intersections freaks me out, and there are usually no pedestrians out during the times I ride so I don’t feel like I’m jeopardizing anyone moving by foot. But am I breaking some kind of unspoken cycling code? Also, I have been known to ride “salmon-style” for short stretches while I’m waiting for a hole in traffic to cross to the proper side of the stream. Should I not be doing that, either? lol.


If there is a bicycle path that runs counterflow, I may use it. That's path as in completely separate from the roadway. But, generally speaking, I don't ride against traffic for any reason. The risks are just too great. Riding counterflow puts you in a place where motorists don't expect you. If they don't expect you to be there, they aren't looking for you and if they aren't looking for you, they will void your 3rd dimension more easily and readily.

You are also in a place where another cyclist has to deal with you if they happen to be riding correctly. That becomes a problem for both you and the other cyclist. Do I pass you on your left and force you out into traffic or do you pass me on my right and force me into traffic. Either way, someone is going to have to cozy up with several hundred pounds of moving metal which may not end well.

There is also the night riding issue that I addressed above. I don't enjoy being a prick but if you are riding towards me on the wrong side of the road, I will not turn down my lights, cover them or make any effort for your comfort. I avoid bike paths at night so that I don't blind pedestrians who are out enjoying the darkness and I try to keep my lights aimed so that I don't blind motorist (although there is very little chance of that for any light) but I draw a line at being courteous to people who aren't following the law. For the reasons above, those people are endangering me and themselves and being, well, a bit prickish.
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Old 10-09-18, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by ripkin
Also, I have been known to ride “salmon-style” for short stretches while I’m waiting for a hole in traffic to cross to the proper side of the stream. Should I not be doing that?
um, er, like riding the wrong way in a one way bike lane in front of a cop. yeah shouldn't do that ...



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