Bird Scooter incident in Raleigh, NC
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Bird Scooter incident in Raleigh, NC
I realize that this is only peripherally bike related, but nevertheless thought it brings up some important issues related to responsibility. Guy on the scooter was going a bit fast on the sidewalk, however the driver appears to exit the garage without much caution. Scooter guy is in the wind and the incensed driver is seeking compensation from Bird. In my opinion this is yet another incident that could have been easily prevented by both parties operating their vehicles prudently. Raleigh was blindsided by the appearance of the scooter company, but in response to the huge number of complaints (as well as injuries) recently passed an ordinance prohibiting use on sidewalks. They are allowed to use bike lanes. In this instance, it seems likely that had the scooter operator been on the street the crash would have still been likely.
Scooter crashes into car
Scooter crashes into car
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no one expects a pedestrian to be moving at 15mph. for all we know the car driver was being cautious, looked left then looked right, but while looking right the scooter flew at him. in my opinion these things should be in the roadway & should have to abide by motorized vehicle laws or at least bicycle laws with reflectors, lights, helmets, etc
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A person riding a scooter isn't a pedestrian.
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no one expects a pedestrian to be moving at 15mph. for all we know the car driver was being cautious, looked left then looked right, but while looking right the scooter flew at him. in my opinion these things should be in the roadway & should have to abide by motorized vehicle laws or at least bicycle laws with reflectors, lights, helmets, etc
This is the intersection and a view to the left.
https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9932...7i13312!8i6656
Last edited by Paul Barnard; 12-05-18 at 10:53 AM.
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don't like scooters on the bike path because they are not bikes, but mechanized transportation devices
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I have had one close call with a bicyclist in all my years of driving and it happened right around the corner from my house about a year ago. As I pull out of my subdivision onto the main road, there's a tall privacy fence and a hedge row in the yard to my left. The fence and hedges run right beside a sidewalk. In order to see far enough down the street to make sure it's safe to pull out, I have to move well into the area where the sidewalk intersects the street.
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Scooters in California are required to be on the road (not sidewalk), operated by 18 year olds an up and operator wear a helmet. almost none of these are observed.in actual use
I think the answer is that laws should be changed so it is the scooter company that gets the citation and the fine, not the operator. That would incentivise scooter companies to put better controls in place as to location, verification of rider age, and providing helmets
I think the answer is that laws should be changed so it is the scooter company that gets the citation and the fine, not the operator. That would incentivise scooter companies to put better controls in place as to location, verification of rider age, and providing helmets
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Uh, no. If you watch the video, the car is ready to pull out of traffic, and begins to do so when the scooter rider rams right into the back driver's side door. The car was already across the sidewalk in the driveway from the parking garage. The guy riding the scooter wasn't paying attention at all, then left the scene of the accident.
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This isn't really a bicycling issue, but those things are just too fast and poorly controlled to be on a sidewalk. That car is not going fast and has already pulled out 3/4 of its length when the scooter hit it in the rear door. That means the scooter had several seconds to stop, and yet still ran smack into the car.
Having watched people slalom around pedestrians on a crowded sidewalk on these things, they're just a major accident waiting to happen. Either they need to be operated in the streets or not at all.
Having watched people slalom around pedestrians on a crowded sidewalk on these things, they're just a major accident waiting to happen. Either they need to be operated in the streets or not at all.
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This isn't really a bicycling issue, but those things are just too fast and poorly controlled to be on a sidewalk. That car is not going fast and has already pulled out 3/4 of its length when the scooter hit it in the rear door. That means the scooter had several seconds to stop, and yet still ran smack into the car.
Having watched people slalom around pedestrians on a crowded sidewalk on these things, they're just a major accident waiting to happen. Either they need to be operated in the streets or not at all.
Having watched people slalom around pedestrians on a crowded sidewalk on these things, they're just a major accident waiting to happen. Either they need to be operated in the streets or not at all.
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And from what I see the driver needed to commit to straddling the sidewalk crossing to be able to see well enough to safely enter the roadway. There are a lot of sidewalks situations that are similar. I described one earlier in this thread. While you are right that this is not a bicycling issue, the lessons certainly apply well to bicyclists.
Agree with all of that--there are very few situations in which I will ride on a sidewalk, and I would never do so at speed.
I forget that there are actually adults who consider riding on the sidewalk normal and/or safer than the street. It's a terrible idea in large part because of driveways, and even worse than the situation you're describing are driveways where the driver has no choice but to back out. It's bad enough dealing with that in the street, being on the sidewalk just cuts down the time you have to anticipate it.
#19
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The parking garage is likely the most liable for this collision.
Line of sight is blocked leaving the garage for both drivers and sidewalk users. The garage has not compensated for that by either putting up a mirror and/or visual/audio warning system that a car is leaving the garage.
Boston may prohibit bicycles from sidewalks, but many cities/states do not or just limit the area to the center of downtown. Many cops would ticket a scooter if they used the road.
Sounds like the city only has rules and not laws/ordinances for the scooters. There will likely be several legal battles between cities and scooter companies because of this.
Scooter rider may have some liability if the sidewalk has a 10 mph limit and it can be proven the scooter was going 15 mph or over. Lots of runners travel at 12 mph.
Line of sight is blocked leaving the garage for both drivers and sidewalk users. The garage has not compensated for that by either putting up a mirror and/or visual/audio warning system that a car is leaving the garage.
Boston may prohibit bicycles from sidewalks, but many cities/states do not or just limit the area to the center of downtown. Many cops would ticket a scooter if they used the road.
Sounds like the city only has rules and not laws/ordinances for the scooters. There will likely be several legal battles between cities and scooter companies because of this.
Scooter rider may have some liability if the sidewalk has a 10 mph limit and it can be proven the scooter was going 15 mph or over. Lots of runners travel at 12 mph.
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#20
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The insanity is widespread in Fort Lauderdale.
The dockless scooter sharing has service from Bird, Bolt and Lime.
It is terrifying to operate a motor vehicle in the covered area. Every intersection must be inspected for high-speed traffic approaching from any direction on the roadways and sidewalks, with traffic and against traffic.
These are operated without any regard to rules of the road. There are many, many, many all over the area. The operator skill level ranges from zero to acceptable, with most clustered near zero.
My speculation is that the problem is much worse when the bars are letting out.
People are going to die! (Moment of drama is over...) Seriously though, it is horrible and out-of-control.
Don't let this happen to your town.
The dockless scooter sharing has service from Bird, Bolt and Lime.
It is terrifying to operate a motor vehicle in the covered area. Every intersection must be inspected for high-speed traffic approaching from any direction on the roadways and sidewalks, with traffic and against traffic.
These are operated without any regard to rules of the road. There are many, many, many all over the area. The operator skill level ranges from zero to acceptable, with most clustered near zero.
My speculation is that the problem is much worse when the bars are letting out.
People are going to die! (Moment of drama is over...) Seriously though, it is horrible and out-of-control.
Don't let this happen to your town.
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#21
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The insanity is widespread in Fort Lauderdale.
The dockless scooter sharing has service from Bird, Bolt and Lime.
The dockless scooter sharing has service from Bird, Bolt and Lime.
They instead instruct to "Always obey traffic laws", without specifying a single one.
#22
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The Bolt app instructs that scooters are not league to operate on public roads, that they must either operate in a bike lane or on the sidewalk.
The Bird app says to only operate in bike paths, to not operate on sidewalks and doesn't mention the roadway.
The Bird app says to only operate in bike paths, to not operate on sidewalks and doesn't mention the roadway.
Last edited by wingless; 12-05-18 at 04:36 PM.
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They provide a rules link that doesn't specify ANY of the operation rules. They instead instruct to "Always obey traffic laws", without specifying a single one.
They probably figure it is best if the operator obeys them all .... what a concept.
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Similar incident in Indy earlier in the year. https://fox59.com/2018/09/20/downtow...ould-be-filed/
Here, too, e-scooters are not to be ridden on sidewalks. But, of course, folks ride them on sidewalks.
Here, too, e-scooters are not to be ridden on sidewalks. But, of course, folks ride them on sidewalks.
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They should change the name from Lime and Bird to Darwin Scooters. Hey, he's not on the sidewalk!