New Surly Long Haul Trucker frame vs 95 Trek 830 frame - Cro-Moly Battle to the Death
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New Surly Long Haul Trucker frame vs 95 Trek 830 frame - Cro-Moly Battle to the Death
Just as I am about to kick off the major overhaul of my 1995 Trek 830 Mountain Bike, to make it more Commuter friendly and refreshed, I get the brilliant idea of perhaps buying a Surly Long Haul Trucker frame instead and putting all my new parts on to it and putting my Trek 830 into retirement for now.
So I am starting this thread to get people's opinions on how big a difference in ride quality they think there would be between my Trek 830(which like the Surly LHT has a Cro-Moly frame) and a new Surly LHT?
I know the Surly has much more versatility for added racks and various things to it, but that is not a factor in why I am considering the Surly LHT frame & forkset.
In the contest between the old Trek 830 and the Surly LHT, I'm only interested in how noticeable or not, the difference in feel of comfort and anything else, be it speed or stability or whatever, that is likely to exist between my Trek 830 & the Surly LHT.
Now unless someone is going to shock me and tell me otherwise, yes I expect the Surly LHT to be better across the board, but is the difference big enough to justify in your opinion the cost of buying the Surly LHT, versus reusing my existing frame at no cost to me?
I'm pretty much only an urban rider, cars are just about always constantly around me, and I tend to switch regularly from road to footpath depending on where I am riding.
I won't be using either bike as a mountain bike, but as a more rugged 7.x FX for want of a better term.
Definitely appreciate any insights and feedback that people have.
Cheers.
P.S. Either way, the bike will be setup to use a flat bar handlebar.
So I am starting this thread to get people's opinions on how big a difference in ride quality they think there would be between my Trek 830(which like the Surly LHT has a Cro-Moly frame) and a new Surly LHT?
I know the Surly has much more versatility for added racks and various things to it, but that is not a factor in why I am considering the Surly LHT frame & forkset.
In the contest between the old Trek 830 and the Surly LHT, I'm only interested in how noticeable or not, the difference in feel of comfort and anything else, be it speed or stability or whatever, that is likely to exist between my Trek 830 & the Surly LHT.
Now unless someone is going to shock me and tell me otherwise, yes I expect the Surly LHT to be better across the board, but is the difference big enough to justify in your opinion the cost of buying the Surly LHT, versus reusing my existing frame at no cost to me?
I'm pretty much only an urban rider, cars are just about always constantly around me, and I tend to switch regularly from road to footpath depending on where I am riding.
I won't be using either bike as a mountain bike, but as a more rugged 7.x FX for want of a better term.
Definitely appreciate any insights and feedback that people have.
Cheers.
P.S. Either way, the bike will be setup to use a flat bar handlebar.
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You may be surprised. The Surly LHT is a versatile bike, but it's built with heavy duty tubing for serious loaded touring. That strong tubing gives it a very stiff ride without a heavy load.
Your 830 was also built with heavy duty tubing. But the Surly LHT may not be any more comfortable.
Are there any Surly dealers nearby that have an LHT you could test ride? Do they have Surly dealers in OZ?
Your plan isn't a bad one, but the LHT may just not be the right candidate.
That said, there aren't a lot of lighter frames currently made for 26" wheels.
If you want a 26er frame with a responsive ride, the best bet may be another 90s MTB--but a high end one made of better steel.
Your 830 was also built with heavy duty tubing. But the Surly LHT may not be any more comfortable.
Are there any Surly dealers nearby that have an LHT you could test ride? Do they have Surly dealers in OZ?
Your plan isn't a bad one, but the LHT may just not be the right candidate.
That said, there aren't a lot of lighter frames currently made for 26" wheels.
If you want a 26er frame with a responsive ride, the best bet may be another 90s MTB--but a high end one made of better steel.
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You may be surprised. The Surly LHT is a versatile bike, but it's built with heavy duty tubing for serious loaded touring. That strong tubing gives it a very stiff ride without a heavy load.
Your 830 was also built with heavy duty tubing. But the Surly LHT may not be any more comfortable.
Are there any Surly dealers nearby that have an LHT you could test ride? Do they have Surly dealers in OZ?
Your plan isn't a bad one, but the LHT may just not be the right candidate.
That said, there aren't a lot of lighter frames currently made for 26" wheels.
If you want a 26er frame with a responsive ride, the best bet may be another 90s MTB--but a high end one made of better steel.
Your 830 was also built with heavy duty tubing. But the Surly LHT may not be any more comfortable.
Are there any Surly dealers nearby that have an LHT you could test ride? Do they have Surly dealers in OZ?
Your plan isn't a bad one, but the LHT may just not be the right candidate.
That said, there aren't a lot of lighter frames currently made for 26" wheels.
If you want a 26er frame with a responsive ride, the best bet may be another 90s MTB--but a high end one made of better steel.
Seeing that I am a serious Clyde, I pretty much need a tough bike like my Trek 830 or something like a LHT, as I will be putting a heavy load on any bike I ride.
I don't find the prospect of riding my Trek 830 a troubling one, but if the Surly LHT was a reasonable/large improvement, then I would probably just go with the LHT.
How much of the LHT's fanfare is pretty much only due to its hauling/touring capabilities and literally nothing to do with its comfort levels unloaded?
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The Soma Grand Randonneur V2 is a really nice bike and I almost purchased one before I lucked up on my Riv.
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Don't forget that you'll also need a new headset and stem. LHTs will also generally have a shorter top tube because they expect you to put your hands on the hoods. At least usually.
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#7
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Surlys are heavy.
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This titanium bike has been sitting on my local CL for a while. Half the price of an LHT frame, approximately, and it must be overpriced since it hasn't sold. It's not a good touring bike, having an early suspension fork and no rack braze-ons. But it gives you an idea how far your money can go. You can probably do just as well in your own market.
1990s RALEIGH mtn bike John Tomac signature series
It was a $1500 bike when new
https://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/B...n+Tomac+Design
1990s RALEIGH mtn bike John Tomac signature series
It was a $1500 bike when new
https://www.bikepedia.com/QuickBike/B...n+Tomac+Design
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#9
No one carries the DogBoy
I ride a disc trucker and I'm about 220. I don't find the ride to be stiff, but it is very tank-like. Mine is set-up as a commuter/tourer with all the racks, dyno wheel on 26" wheels with 1.9" wide slick tires. Given that you are looking for versatility and a flat-bar bike, have you looked at the troll? It might do more what you want and is more flexible than the LHT in terms of gearing/brake options. The wheelbase is a bit shorter, and while its still a heavy-duty machine, it always "felt" faster to me. It also gives more range for tire clearance. The big negative from my perspective is that the troll has horizontal dropouts that make changing tires with fenders mounted a huge PITA. Were I in your shoes, I'd probably get a new frame just because I always want a new bike, but if money is a concern, there is nothing wrong with the 830.
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I made a pretty similar decision a couple of years ago. I had an '89 Specialized RockHopper (mid-grade ChroMo rigid MTB like your Trek) and then bought a LHT frame and moved all the parts over. The main difference is that I was using drop bars on both.
What others have said about the LHT being stiff when not loaded is true. I particularly noticed it with the fork. The fork on the LHT is really heavy and stiff, made to carry a big front load. You'd take an extra hit on this since you plan to set the bike up with flat bar (more upright, less weight on the fork). I weigh about 200 pounds, so my bikes are always carrying a decent load too, but the only time I've really loved the ride of my LHT is when I loaded it up with gear and took it out touring.
If you want to buy a new frame, I say look for something that was designed for flat bars -- maybe a Surly Troll. The geometry will work out better for you. That said, I don't think you're going to find a new ChroMo frame to be much of an upgrade over the 830.
What others have said about the LHT being stiff when not loaded is true. I particularly noticed it with the fork. The fork on the LHT is really heavy and stiff, made to carry a big front load. You'd take an extra hit on this since you plan to set the bike up with flat bar (more upright, less weight on the fork). I weigh about 200 pounds, so my bikes are always carrying a decent load too, but the only time I've really loved the ride of my LHT is when I loaded it up with gear and took it out touring.
If you want to buy a new frame, I say look for something that was designed for flat bars -- maybe a Surly Troll. The geometry will work out better for you. That said, I don't think you're going to find a new ChroMo frame to be much of an upgrade over the 830.
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#11
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Probably a wash when compared to the 830, which even in its day was not a light bike.
ColSanders, personally I think the LHT has enough nice modern touches that you'll enjoy it, and new bikes are fun. If you were originally planning a total rebuild of the 830 with all new components, I think you might well get more fun out of making the frame one of your upgrades as well. And the 26" LHT is surprisingly fun to ride, the smaller wheels really give it a more nimble feel that you don't tend to get with 700C touring bikes. It will probably feel pretty similar to the 830, but probably even better - it might sound crazy, but that 1 1/8" threadless headset really does make a bike feel more precise IMO.
ColSanders, personally I think the LHT has enough nice modern touches that you'll enjoy it, and new bikes are fun. If you were originally planning a total rebuild of the 830 with all new components, I think you might well get more fun out of making the frame one of your upgrades as well. And the 26" LHT is surprisingly fun to ride, the smaller wheels really give it a more nimble feel that you don't tend to get with 700C touring bikes. It will probably feel pretty similar to the 830, but probably even better - it might sound crazy, but that 1 1/8" threadless headset really does make a bike feel more precise IMO.
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The LHT will have a shorter top-tube than your 830 and more importantly, it will have a much lower bottom bracket. My experience is that a lower BB = a more "stable" feeling bike and a higher BB = a more "agile" feeling bike. This is based on both riding different bikes with different BB heights and riding two 700c bikes with 26" wheels and evaluating the resulting lowering of the BB.
If you are a large clyde, I wouldn't worry about the comments on the LHT being overly stiff since you'll probably weigh more than some riders plus all their touring gear. The LHT will probably be lighter because the Trek 8xx series of bikes were entry level and on the heavier side.
Having said all that, if you are looking for a work-horse of a bike to transport you from point A to point B, the LHT might be the best choice although the 830 would do the same job just fine. If you are looking for a bike that is more fun to ride the 830 might be a better choice.
Finally, if you are looking for a bike that is a blast to ride (rather than being mere transportation) you should check out the Surly Troll. It might not be a huge difference from your 830 but there will be some. I went from a 1995 Trek 730 Multitrack to a Surly Karate Monkey. The two bikes have almost the same geometry but I like the KM more because 1) it has a 1 1/8" steerer, which is much more rigid than the 1" my 730 has, 2) it has a longer top-tube so less toe overlap and 3) it is just more fun to ride. The only things that kept me from going with a Troll frameset are the fact that I have good, custom built 700c wheels and the lower stack height of the Troll would result in a lot of spacers under the stem to get the right bar height.
If you are a large clyde, I wouldn't worry about the comments on the LHT being overly stiff since you'll probably weigh more than some riders plus all their touring gear. The LHT will probably be lighter because the Trek 8xx series of bikes were entry level and on the heavier side.
Having said all that, if you are looking for a work-horse of a bike to transport you from point A to point B, the LHT might be the best choice although the 830 would do the same job just fine. If you are looking for a bike that is more fun to ride the 830 might be a better choice.
Finally, if you are looking for a bike that is a blast to ride (rather than being mere transportation) you should check out the Surly Troll. It might not be a huge difference from your 830 but there will be some. I went from a 1995 Trek 730 Multitrack to a Surly Karate Monkey. The two bikes have almost the same geometry but I like the KM more because 1) it has a 1 1/8" steerer, which is much more rigid than the 1" my 730 has, 2) it has a longer top-tube so less toe overlap and 3) it is just more fun to ride. The only things that kept me from going with a Troll frameset are the fact that I have good, custom built 700c wheels and the lower stack height of the Troll would result in a lot of spacers under the stem to get the right bar height.
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This titanium bike has been sitting on my local CL for a while. Half the price of an LHT frame, approximately, and it must be overpriced since it hasn't sold. It's not a good touring bike, having an early suspension fork and no rack braze-ons. But it gives you an idea how far your money can go. You can probably do just as well in your own market.
1990s RALEIGH mtn bike John Tomac signature series
It was a $1500 bike when new
1993 Raleigh MTi 1000 John Tomac Design - BikePedia
1990s RALEIGH mtn bike John Tomac signature series
It was a $1500 bike when new
1993 Raleigh MTi 1000 John Tomac Design - BikePedia
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I'm not sure about a great deal. It's a weird combo of great quality and really obsolete. The handlebar transplant makes it look hinky. It's a size too big for me.
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#17
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This titanium bike has been sitting on my local CL for a while. Half the price of an LHT frame, approximately, and it must be overpriced since it hasn't sold. It's not a good touring bike, having an early suspension fork and no rack braze-ons. But it gives you an idea how far your money can go. You can probably do just as well in your own market.
1990s RALEIGH mtn bike John Tomac signature series
It was a $1500 bike when new
1993 Raleigh MTi 1000 John Tomac Design - BikePedia
1990s RALEIGH mtn bike John Tomac signature series
It was a $1500 bike when new
1993 Raleigh MTi 1000 John Tomac Design - BikePedia
I ride a disc trucker and I'm about 220. I don't find the ride to be stiff, but it is very tank-like. Mine is set-up as a commuter/tourer with all the racks, dyno wheel on 26" wheels with 1.9" wide slick tires. Given that you are looking for versatility and a flat-bar bike, have you looked at the troll? It might do more what you want and is more flexible than the LHT in terms of gearing/brake options. The wheelbase is a bit shorter, and while its still a heavy-duty machine, it always "felt" faster to me. It also gives more range for tire clearance. The big negative from my perspective is that the troll has horizontal dropouts that make changing tires with fenders mounted a huge PITA. Were I in your shoes, I'd probably get a new frame just because I always want a new bike, but if money is a concern, there is nothing wrong with the 830.
One of the things about the LHT that intrigues me is the long chainstays, but thank you for your feedback.
I made a pretty similar decision a couple of years ago. I had an '89 Specialized RockHopper (mid-grade ChroMo rigid MTB like your Trek) and then bought a LHT frame and moved all the parts over. The main difference is that I was using drop bars on both.
What others have said about the LHT being stiff when not loaded is true. I particularly noticed it with the fork. The fork on the LHT is really heavy and stiff, made to carry a big front load. You'd take an extra hit on this since you plan to set the bike up with flat bar (more upright, less weight on the fork). I weigh about 200 pounds, so my bikes are always carrying a decent load too, but the only time I've really loved the ride of my LHT is when I loaded it up with gear and took it out touring.
If you want to buy a new frame, I say look for something that was designed for flat bars -- maybe a Surly Troll. The geometry will work out better for you. That said, I don't think you're going to find a new ChroMo frame to be much of an upgrade over the 830.
What others have said about the LHT being stiff when not loaded is true. I particularly noticed it with the fork. The fork on the LHT is really heavy and stiff, made to carry a big front load. You'd take an extra hit on this since you plan to set the bike up with flat bar (more upright, less weight on the fork). I weigh about 200 pounds, so my bikes are always carrying a decent load too, but the only time I've really loved the ride of my LHT is when I loaded it up with gear and took it out touring.
If you want to buy a new frame, I say look for something that was designed for flat bars -- maybe a Surly Troll. The geometry will work out better for you. That said, I don't think you're going to find a new ChroMo frame to be much of an upgrade over the 830.
Interesting to hear you don't think the LHT would be much of an upgrade over the 830, for my usage.
I may indeed just go with my original plan and stick with the 830.
Probably a wash when compared to the 830, which even in its day was not a light bike.
ColSanders, personally I think the LHT has enough nice modern touches that you'll enjoy it, and new bikes are fun. If you were originally planning a total rebuild of the 830 with all new components, I think you might well get more fun out of making the frame one of your upgrades as well. And the 26" LHT is surprisingly fun to ride, the smaller wheels really give it a more nimble feel that you don't tend to get with 700C touring bikes. It will probably feel pretty similar to the 830, but probably even better - it might sound crazy, but that 1 1/8" threadless headset really does make a bike feel more precise IMO.
ColSanders, personally I think the LHT has enough nice modern touches that you'll enjoy it, and new bikes are fun. If you were originally planning a total rebuild of the 830 with all new components, I think you might well get more fun out of making the frame one of your upgrades as well. And the 26" LHT is surprisingly fun to ride, the smaller wheels really give it a more nimble feel that you don't tend to get with 700C touring bikes. It will probably feel pretty similar to the 830, but probably even better - it might sound crazy, but that 1 1/8" threadless headset really does make a bike feel more precise IMO.
The LHT will have a shorter top-tube than your 830 and more importantly, it will have a much lower bottom bracket. My experience is that a lower BB = a more "stable" feeling bike and a higher BB = a more "agile" feeling bike. This is based on both riding different bikes with different BB heights and riding two 700c bikes with 26" wheels and evaluating the resulting lowering of the BB.
If you are a large clyde, I wouldn't worry about the comments on the LHT being overly stiff since you'll probably weigh more than some riders plus all their touring gear. The LHT will probably be lighter because the Trek 8xx series of bikes were entry level and on the heavier side.
Having said all that, if you are looking for a work-horse of a bike to transport you from point A to point B, the LHT might be the best choice although the 830 would do the same job just fine. If you are looking for a bike that is more fun to ride the 830 might be a better choice.
Finally, if you are looking for a bike that is a blast to ride (rather than being mere transportation) you should check out the Surly Troll. It might not be a huge difference from your 830 but there will be some. I went from a 1995 Trek 730 Multitrack to a Surly Karate Monkey. The two bikes have almost the same geometry but I like the KM more because 1) it has a 1 1/8" steerer, which is much more rigid than the 1" my 730 has, 2) it has a longer top-tube so less toe overlap and 3) it is just more fun to ride. The only things that kept me from going with a Troll frameset are the fact that I have good, custom built 700c wheels and the lower stack height of the Troll would result in a lot of spacers under the stem to get the right bar height.
If you are a large clyde, I wouldn't worry about the comments on the LHT being overly stiff since you'll probably weigh more than some riders plus all their touring gear. The LHT will probably be lighter because the Trek 8xx series of bikes were entry level and on the heavier side.
Having said all that, if you are looking for a work-horse of a bike to transport you from point A to point B, the LHT might be the best choice although the 830 would do the same job just fine. If you are looking for a bike that is more fun to ride the 830 might be a better choice.
Finally, if you are looking for a bike that is a blast to ride (rather than being mere transportation) you should check out the Surly Troll. It might not be a huge difference from your 830 but there will be some. I went from a 1995 Trek 730 Multitrack to a Surly Karate Monkey. The two bikes have almost the same geometry but I like the KM more because 1) it has a 1 1/8" steerer, which is much more rigid than the 1" my 730 has, 2) it has a longer top-tube so less toe overlap and 3) it is just more fun to ride. The only things that kept me from going with a Troll frameset are the fact that I have good, custom built 700c wheels and the lower stack height of the Troll would result in a lot of spacers under the stem to get the right bar height.
The look of the Troll, the shorter chainstays and horizontal drops, really put me off it, so looking through Surly's range, the LHT is the only one that seems like a good fit for my current circumstances.
#18
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I really don't know which would be heavier or which would make you happier. I was being somewhat flippant, because I didn't like my Cross Checks much, and I would expect to like a LHT less. Just one person's opinion. I don't know your 830 well and probably haven't tried one. My wife has a 1995-ish 820, and it's good for what it is, but it's quite heavy.
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“When man invented the bicycle he reached the peak of his attainments.” — Elizabeth West, US author
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#19
Junior Member
Can you get a 58cm LHT with 26" wheels? I thought Surly only offered 26" wheels on 54cm and smaller? FWIW, I have a mid 80's Trek 850 w/26" wheels and a LHT w/700c's....the Surly is more comfortable and quicker on long rides.
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Long Haul Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes
#21
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Stay with the Trek 820. Build up the best you can and use it as a learning tool.
Given you rid a 58cm, I would go with a 622 (700c) sometime in the future.
I have two commuting bikes (9 miles/14½km each way); one a PDG70 with 559 rims, and the other a Trek 720 with 622 rims. The Trek is heavier, but ~5% faster on my mostly flat (6 under passes) route, and rolls nicer. The gearing in terms of GI (compensates for the tire size difference) is about the same. The Trek has 28-622/35-622 tires, the PDG 32-559/40-559 tires.
I also suggest that you be on the look out for: Trek 930/950/970/990/750/790/520 in your size, and avoid suspension versions.
Given you rid a 58cm, I would go with a 622 (700c) sometime in the future.
I have two commuting bikes (9 miles/14½km each way); one a PDG70 with 559 rims, and the other a Trek 720 with 622 rims. The Trek is heavier, but ~5% faster on my mostly flat (6 under passes) route, and rolls nicer. The gearing in terms of GI (compensates for the tire size difference) is about the same. The Trek has 28-622/35-622 tires, the PDG 32-559/40-559 tires.
I also suggest that you be on the look out for: Trek 930/950/970/990/750/790/520 in your size, and avoid suspension versions.
#22
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Note is says "composite" in the listing. I don't think it is all titanium. I'd do some serious research on these before I pulled the trigger, I seem to remember some models of bikes built around this time having failures over time due to whatever they used to bond the materials together failing.
#23
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Personally I would keep the 830. The Surly isn't really an upgrade in my opinion and the cash savings would allow for a few nicer components on the Trek.
#24
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It would disappoint me to know that the Surly LHT wouldn't feel substantially better and/or more comfortable than my 1995 Trek 830, considering the years that have passed and that the Surly is meant for the roads, even if primarily as a loaded tourer.
As for components, I have already bought all my components and they are pretty much XT everything.
#25
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Stay with the Trek 820. Build up the best you can and use it as a learning tool.
Given you rid a 58cm, I would go with a 622 (700c) sometime in the future.
I have two commuting bikes (9 miles/14½km each way); one a PDG70 with 559 rims, and the other a Trek 720 with 622 rims. The Trek is heavier, but ~5% faster on my mostly flat (6 under passes) route, and rolls nicer. The gearing in terms of GI (compensates for the tire size difference) is about the same. The Trek has 28-622/35-622 tires, the PDG 32-559/40-559 tires.
I also suggest that you be on the look out for: Trek 930/950/970/990/750/790/520 in your size, and avoid suspension versions.
Given you rid a 58cm, I would go with a 622 (700c) sometime in the future.
I have two commuting bikes (9 miles/14½km each way); one a PDG70 with 559 rims, and the other a Trek 720 with 622 rims. The Trek is heavier, but ~5% faster on my mostly flat (6 under passes) route, and rolls nicer. The gearing in terms of GI (compensates for the tire size difference) is about the same. The Trek has 28-622/35-622 tires, the PDG 32-559/40-559 tires.
I also suggest that you be on the look out for: Trek 930/950/970/990/750/790/520 in your size, and avoid suspension versions.
I'd prefer a 700c bike, but as I have already bought replacement wheels and rim brakes and I'm worried about wheel strength, I'm happy enough to go with a 26" wheeled setup for now, with a 700c in my future for sure.