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Training Status??? (IV)

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Training Status??? (IV)

Old 06-30-19, 07:47 PM
  #13651  
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Had a solid week and everything seemed to go as planned, outside of shortening my ride because I can't handle 15% climbs. Sitting at 88 ctl. Watts are still down, but if I ever start eating like a normal person they should be fine.
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Old 06-30-19, 10:02 PM
  #13652  
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Originally Posted by cmh View Post
What are the physics of gains due to humidity? I'm not doubting your knowledge, it just isn't intuitive to me (whereas the heat and pressure gains make sense).
Water vapor is molecularly very light compared to air. Add more water vapor to the air, and its density will decrease. A gallon of water (8.34 pounds) will produce about 1600 "gallons" of steam, if that helps you visualize how not dense water vapor is...
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Old 07-01-19, 10:23 AM
  #13653  
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Originally Posted by Cypress View Post
Water vapor is molecularly very light compared to air. Add more water vapor to the air, and its density will decrease. A gallon of water (8.34 pounds) will produce about 1600 "gallons" of steam, if that helps you visualize how not dense water vapor is...
Thanks - that squares with the google searching I did and does help me visualize it.
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Old 07-01-19, 10:50 AM
  #13654  
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Friday I had some time once home, so went out for an easy 45min to hour or so. I peppered it with some all out 15 sec sprints. I think my best was only like 1100 for 5 secs but almost 900 for 15 secs. After doing that hard workout at lunch. There's a false flat to/from my cul de sac I use. Up the little rise is great for full effort extraction. Downhill good for speed/form. I think the tiny false down I got it up to 34mph.

2 hours gravel last night at a chill pace overall. Got home right at dark as the bugs were coming out. Tried to steal a KOM back, but it ain't gonna happen on the cross bike with knobbies. I'll need the other bike, and a rested day.

Did my 2 sets of 3x3min at 350w at lunch. I was very close to nailing that 6th rep. Many more times this workout will be done in coming month.

I was surprised I could do that given the TSS last week and the 2 hours last night.

320w for 20min will happen this year! Another goal will be to set some new 2min power max. That needs to get into the 400's. I've hit right at it, but it needs more snap.
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Old 07-01-19, 08:06 PM
  #13655  
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Fasted all day today (2PM yesterday until about 5PM today) to hopefully stave off some of the weight gain over the trip. A race in 12 days and I gained 6lbs over the work trip. Today was just an easy hour on the gravel bike before breaking my fast. Still managed some PR's on segments I ride a lot. Maybe the gravel is just running fast or something, but I wasn't pushing hard and it was hella hot.
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Old 07-02-19, 06:51 AM
  #13656  
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Originally Posted by Ttoc6 View Post
Fasted all day today (2PM yesterday until about 5PM today) to hopefully stave off some of the weight gain over the trip. A race in 12 days and I gained 6lbs over the work trip. Today was just an easy hour on the gravel bike before breaking my fast. Still managed some PR's on segments I ride a lot. Maybe the gravel is just running fast or something, but I wasn't pushing hard and it was hella hot.
The gravel here the last two days has been slow, due to dry/dusty conditions.

They have a machine in the park they use after huge storms to level/fix the washout parts of the gravel roads. After they use them, it takes a good gentle rain and a dry day to get fast again.

When it's super dry right after they do the roads, it's lots of loose gravel and sandy/dusty stuff that really bogs you down.

Last night I did another 30mi of MUP/gravel after the lunch workout. Just easy/tempo.

Lots of little mini slides and lots of "pling" as you kick up the loose stones. I'm a weenie, so a slide to me constitutes going 10 to 12 mph around a tight corner and maybe sliding 3 to 6 inches sideways. Like, nothing.
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Old 07-02-19, 11:29 AM
  #13657  
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Originally Posted by Hermes View Post
IMO, it is the size of the aerobic engine that matters. For a UCI grand tour pro, they can sit in the peloton in recovery or low z2. At that aerobic level, they are not burning much glycogen. And they ride a lot at that power level because if they rode a lot at higher power, they would run out of glycogen. We all have the about the same amount of glycogen storage.

I think it is true that bonk / fasting rides can improve fat utilization to an extent but not to turn a 300 watt FPT racer into a 400 watt racer. Professional athletes in general are genetic freaks and have the combination of genetic attributes that coupled with training allows them to compete as a professional in sports. If hard training was the answer to achieving a very high level of proficiency in sport, we would all be olympians.
we talk all the time about marginal gains in cycling, trying to get a second here or there. What you can't quantify (or probably you can but I haven't seen it) is what extra % of mitochondial density and activation you can only get on hours 4-5-6-7 of a ride that most of us amateurs rarely see. There's got to be something to 30 hour training weeks or the pros wouldn't do them.
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Old 07-02-19, 01:59 PM
  #13658  
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I think it's just the skewing of the whole time and intensity inverse relationship.

A hobbyist racer like myself has plenty of time to recover and have pretty much all the intensity per week you can. Because you have almost infinite time off the bike to recover compared to the pro.

The pro, has all the time in the world on the bike. So, instead of having a 9-5.......they spend that time on the non-intensity time AND the intense time. Since it is lower intensity, you can eat more of it.

I'm pretty sure recent studies show that SS and other higher intensities still cause more of those changes......but at the cost of reduced time. If they've already maxed the intense time they can spend, they're left maximizing the less intense time to build up more.

It's a horrible analogy, but in golf you can only hit so many hard shots on the driving range per day. Like, maybe 200 or so? That's your higher intensity. But, you can chip and putt until you're bored out of your skull. That's your z1/z2 work. Low intensity. Aderall, golfers, look it up. It's a doping thing. They can both focus during events and during mundane training for longer. Like putting and chipping for hours on end.
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Old 07-02-19, 03:40 PM
  #13659  
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Threshold climbing today. Ug. However, it was a fabulous gorgeous day and the beach was busy and sun worshipers were out warming up for the 4th.
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Old 07-02-19, 10:53 PM
  #13660  
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Not a good night on the bike. Felt great, expected to break pr's but do to a mix of poor pack navigation and bad timing the opposite happened and by the end of it I wanted to toss my bike off a cliff. TBF, about 80% of my issues are bike handling or just not managing where I am in the pack. Its never been good, but since my accident 2 years ago its never gotten back to where it was. So I either figure it out or I don't and if I don't I shouldn't even bother racing (granted the cornering I have an issue with is on descents at speed not on the flats).

The other big thing is our team has picked up a few riders, and these guys are just 10 levels above me. They're all great kids, but there's no scenario where I can help them in any form. That doesn't sound like a big deal, but getting your teeth kicked in at every group ride is a huge confidence killer. Last race we went against another team full of Junior Cat 3s and they kinda called our team out because of my poor race (which is probably why that weekly race only has Cat 3's and a few really fast 4's racing it).

I rant here too much I know so hopefully this is the last one!
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Old 07-03-19, 05:45 AM
  #13661  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
I think it's just the skewing of the whole time and intensity inverse relationship.

A hobbyist racer like myself has plenty of time to recover and have pretty much all the intensity per week you can. Because you have almost infinite time off the bike to recover compared to the pro.
I disagree. People that aren't pros don't have time to recover, which is yet another reason why they can't handle the training load.You simply can't recover the same way (all talent aside) when you're working all day and coming home to kids/wife/pets/house chores/etc., etc. I managed a staggering 38 hours of training in 4 weeks (!!) last month and it did me in enough to have to take a 5 hour recovery week last week, which still left me tired.
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Old 07-03-19, 07:04 AM
  #13662  
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Assuming a sedentary job. Sure, I get up for coffee, to see colleagues, go to meetings, or to walk something out on the site for 30min once in a while..........but I've got a sedentary job. We also watch some Netflix or whatever at night once the kids are in bed. Sure I mow grass, help cook and clean, and wrangle the kids and entertain them. I would assume the guy in our local A ride hammer group that has the hardest time is the guy who has a construction crew. On his feet all day often in non airconditioned unfinished houses. No idea how he manages.

Also, to claim ignorance........it wasn't my idea, I just tend to agree with the idea to a point:

"And for time-crunched cyclists, both the need for prolonged recuperation and the risk of overtraining are already reduced because your busy work and family schedules result in relatively low training volume and abundant time for recovery."

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...-for-cyclists/

The way I understood CTL to work, if somehow you managed over a longer period of time to get up to bigger volume ......it wouldn't kill you because you would have adapted to it over time. Lots of the triathlete folks over on Slowtwitch injure themselves (usually on the run training) by ramping up CTL too quickly. Basically they sit negative for TSB for months on the run (or combined all sports) then wonder why they hurt themselves, or they're exhausted and the gains stopped. They went from 3 hours a week to 10+ overnight.

For some reason, the "one timer" half marathon or marathoner doing it for fun or a fund raiser somehow can grasp the concept of ramping up training load better than competitive athletes sometimes. Even if not knowing what they're doing. They lookup a plan that ramps their load up over XX weeks before the event and peppers in a few shorter speedwork sessions.

I was even in here asking how to burn extra hours this week, lol, so some hypocrisy in action on my part. Just the excitement of having the time to ride.
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Old 07-03-19, 07:31 AM
  #13663  
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Speaking of getting excited with extra time to ride.......

Did the group ride last night. It was so stinking hot and humid. I was feeling a tad tired for it, but went out before the ride and did a little 5 mile warmup and ate a snack and drank some of my mix then was ready to go.

I don't mind folks having their fun, but we're still dealing with annoyances. It's better, nobody decided to run stops to try to "win the group ride". But still had someone go over the double yellow.

The sprint, 1min and best 3min power was good given the current training load.
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Old 07-03-19, 08:23 AM
  #13664  
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this is kind of a silly conversation anyway. WT pros are training for races that are categorically different than anything american amateurs do on a regular basis. i'd be willing to bet even the best crit racers in the US aren't doing massive hours.
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Old 07-03-19, 09:21 AM
  #13665  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Assuming a sedentary job. Sure, I get up for coffee, to see colleagues, go to meetings, or to walk something out on the site for 30min once in a while..........but I've got a sedentary job. We also watch some Netflix or whatever at night once the kids are in bed. Sure I mow grass, help cook and clean, and wrangle the kids and entertain them. I would assume the guy in our local A ride hammer group that has the hardest time is the guy who has a construction crew. On his feet all day often in non airconditioned unfinished houses. No idea how he manages.

Also, to claim ignorance........it wasn't my idea, I just tend to agree with the idea to a point:

"And for time-crunched cyclists, both the need for prolonged recuperation and the risk of overtraining are already reduced because your busy work and family schedules result in relatively low training volume and abundant time for recovery."
I'm not sure I fully agree. Yes, there's plenty of time for the muscles to recuperate, but the endocrine response from other life events can't be ignored. If you're stressed out and your cortisol levels are high, you may be otherwise sedentary but still not able to recover adequately.
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Old 07-03-19, 10:39 AM
  #13666  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
Assuming a sedentary job. Sure, I get up for coffee, to see colleagues, go to meetings, or to walk something out on the site for 30min once in a while..........but I've got a sedentary job. We also watch some Netflix or whatever at night once the kids are in bed. Sure I mow grass, help cook and clean, and wrangle the kids and entertain them. I would assume the guy in our local A ride hammer group that has the hardest time is the guy who has a construction crew. On his feet all day often in non airconditioned unfinished houses. No idea how he manages.

Also, to claim ignorance........it wasn't my idea, I just tend to agree with the idea to a point:

"And for time-crunched cyclists, both the need for prolonged recuperation and the risk of overtraining are already reduced because your busy work and family schedules result in relatively low training volume and abundant time for recovery."

https://www.trainingpeaks.com/blog/t...-for-cyclists/

The way I understood CTL to work, if somehow you managed over a longer period of time to get up to bigger volume ......it wouldn't kill you because you would have adapted to it over time. Lots of the triathlete folks over on Slowtwitch injure themselves (usually on the run training) by ramping up CTL too quickly. Basically they sit negative for TSB for months on the run (or combined all sports) then wonder why they hurt themselves, or they're exhausted and the gains stopped. They went from 3 hours a week to 10+ overnight.

For some reason, the "one timer" half marathon or marathoner doing it for fun or a fund raiser somehow can grasp the concept of ramping up training load better than competitive athletes sometimes. Even if not knowing what they're doing. They lookup a plan that ramps their load up over XX weeks before the event and peppers in a few shorter speedwork sessions.

I was even in here asking how to burn extra hours this week, lol, so some hypocrisy in action on my part. Just the excitement of having the time to ride.
But you don't have the experience of chronic, high-level training. So your ability to handle five hours a week doesn't really say much about how you would recover were you doing 15 hours a week of "proper" training.

That quip on training peaks doesn't fully encapsulate the recovery needs a chronically high and demanding training load actually entails. Not needing prolonged recuperation simply means that people doing that type of training can essentially maintain a decent fitness level year round without the need for a significant offseason. That type of training also typically means a plateau and lacks the highs and lows of periodization.

Short bouts of overextensive training that you're referring to from the bucket-list crowd really has no bearing on the situation. Your body can handle acute bouts of stress pretty well up to a point. They're not training for performance so much as completion, so there's a lot left on the table. And then they're done and that's it.

The longer I train, the less stock I put in CTL. Theoretically, sounds cool. Practically? In the real world? Doesn't work for me. A frantic day at work or a trip to the zoo can "ruin" a workout. Training by feel has benefited me greatly in this regard, with little loss in fitness that couldn't be made up with a bit more volume were I inclined.
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Old 07-03-19, 11:34 AM
  #13667  
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IMO this is all really dependent on the individual; its hard to evaluate how someone deals with stress or how difficult their workload and life is off the bike.

I only have a wife, work from home 2 days a week, and have a sedentary job that is stress free (since my stuff never goes down ). I also know how to manage what little stress I have (whining on forums helps, though it annoys everyone). Hypothetically, I could train 20+ hours a week (I'm at 15ish atm) if my body could handle that. That's a huge contrast from a person with kids, a tight budget, an overbearing boss, a stress job with physical demands and long hours, etc.

What the average USAC racer needs probably isn't that high. The top end of 45+ Masters racers (at least the ones that post on Strava) only average about 12 hours a week.
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Old 07-03-19, 09:04 PM
  #13668  
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Good little discussion!

Last night's groupride went about how I expected. Got dropped quick.. Today was supposed to be recovery.. but I had two mechanicals and got stuck on the trail by a rattler for quite a while.

Tomorrow should be fun!
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Old 07-04-19, 08:21 AM
  #13669  
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Yesterday, Fiesta on my road bike. Warmup, accelerations, jumps and 2 laps at endurance pace. The wind was from the south and just below the velocity that starts to blow sand into the air. There was a 10 mph difference between the home and back sections for the same power.

My wife and I went to the Lot Theatre to see Aladdin, the Disney movie. This was a recovery play because the Lot has seats that recline and we could get our legs up. I was not sure about going to a Disney movie (musical) but it was really good. Much better than most of the movies we have seen and good for the entire family. We came out feeling better than we went in.
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Old 07-04-19, 08:48 AM
  #13670  
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Hour early dad ride in time to get the kids when they woke up. I like this ride and will start doing it more. I can get time in and not feel guilty because my wife still gets to sleep in.

Mostly z2/z3 of 7 with one hard effort to try and get a slightly better max HR estimate.

Felt good. Been off the bike almost 2 weeks due to work and work travel, it goes so fast these days.
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Old 07-04-19, 01:39 PM
  #13671  
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July 4th 5000 feet of freedom. One of the biggest climbs I know of. 5000 feet straight up, probably a hundred bike friends all partying at 6am. Almost all dirt / gravel. Tonight I'll ride up a different mountain on my mtb to watch fireworks at night.
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Old 07-06-19, 07:05 AM
  #13672  
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90 minutes or so. Hair over 20 miles, 1400 feet.

That's a lot of climbing for me, and it was all pretty steep and punchy. Also my longest ride yet since I've been back.

Was aiming for Z1 (of 3), heart was above that a lot, power wasn't too far off though. I think my threshold is probably too high. I might need to do an actual test to get a baseline. I've been off too long to get it right by feel.

Check out my activity on Strava (if you're some weirdo who likes looking at slow fat guys going slow up hills) : https://strava.app.link/8pM7Vaqq6X
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Old 07-06-19, 08:25 AM
  #13673  
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Gym yesterday...Band walking, bridges with shoulders on bosa ball using kettlebell, box jumps and deads. I am following the low rep protocol with heavier weights. My body weight is going up. So much for less reps but more weight just makes one stronger. I am not eating more or cycling less. I will have to watch my calories a little more carefully. My transient (short term power) is up. My seated starts have been some of my best.
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Old 07-06-19, 02:48 PM
  #13674  
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Recovery ride yesterday. Easy ride today with 3 efforts. One hard, two kinda hard. A-priority race in a week. I've got some chest congestion going on and I'm gonna do everything I need to get this gunk cleared out.
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Old 07-06-19, 09:29 PM
  #13675  
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I believe I hit a point in my diet where I have to modify my eating habits to keep losing weight. I'm going to have go cold turkey on diet sodas (I drink 3-5 a day), sweetened almond milk, and cut back on the energy / protein bars (which are my lunchtime work crutch).

We'll see how it goes, imo this is probably going to be much much harder than training, especially cutting beverages and if my appetite doesn't change significantly I won't be able to sustain it for more than a few weeks. I always see 'training' as a funny thing, because we're riding a bike and yeah we may be suffering, but its a fun activity (at least for me it is).
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