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Strangeness - are my tire sidewalls defective?

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Strangeness - are my tire sidewalls defective?

Old 09-24-19, 03:17 PM
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Strangeness - are my tire sidewalls defective?

I've been riding on these tires since mid-August and they've been progressively popping fibers on the sidewall between the sidewall and the tread. Strangely enough, the majority of the popping fibers are on the driveside both front and rear.

A couple pics:





Would you continue to ride these? In my estimation, at some point enough fibers will have let go to the point the rest fail - and I can foresee this being a quick, catastrophic type of failure. While currently the wheels/tires have been shifted to my short-ride (school) bike, I would like to know what people think. I'll keep using them if I'm overreacting, but will retire them if the consensus is that they're dangerous to use.

DD

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Old 09-24-19, 03:31 PM
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Who's the manufacturer? Are they old stock or new? I would just contact the mfgr and see what they say (if they're still around).
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Old 09-24-19, 03:35 PM
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You're sure it's not some rub on the drive side? Reverse the tire on the rim and ride it for a while. If the fraying continues, then it just happens that it's that side of the tire evidencing the defect (and yeah, I'd say it's a defect, if the tire is fairly new). If it starts fraying on the "new" drive side, then look more closely for a rub.
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Old 09-24-19, 03:39 PM
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I think you're leaning to the right.



(Could frame misalignment cause this type of issue? I really think it's a defect))
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Old 09-24-19, 03:46 PM
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Originally Posted by TenGrainBread
Who's the manufacturer? Are they old stock or new? I would just contact the mfgr and see what they say (if they're still around).
They are Michelin Selects - don't know exactly when they were produced, but they were NOS and supple when I first mounted them.

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 03:49 PM
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Originally Posted by madpogue
You're sure it's not some rub on the drive side? Reverse the tire on the rim and ride it for a while. If the fraying continues, then it just happens that it's that side of the tire evidencing the defect (and yeah, I'd say it's a defect, if the tire is fairly new). If it starts fraying on the "new" drive side, then look more closely for a rub.
Nope, nothing rubbing the tires on either side, so that's ruled out. I have never seen anything like this except for really old tires on barn finds that are obviously ready for the trashcan. Never had it happen with a brand-new tire, vintage or not.

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres
I think you're leaning to the right.
We should keep politics out of this forum.

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Old 09-24-19, 03:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Ex Pres
I think you're leaning to the right.


Originally Posted by Ex Pres
Could frame misalignment cause this type of issue? I really think it's a defect.
I don't see how frame misalignment could cause this if there's no rubbing going on. I, too, think it's a defect - and I wonder how bad it is/might become.

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 04:09 PM
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IIRC, one of the issues with the extra-light version of the Grand Bois Hetre tire was that the tread was relatively thick up to the edges, yet the sidewall was very flexible. This difference in flexibility caused tire failures at the sidewall near the tread. I kinda wonder if something similar is happening here. The tread has become a little firmer with age, and it's forcing the sidewall to flex a little extra at that junction, causing the fabric to fray.
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Old 09-24-19, 04:52 PM
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I think you have defective tires where the sidewall rubber is too thin to retain the sidewall pliers. Those fibers extend down to the bead and if enough of them let go, your bead could separate from your sidewall. Similar happened to an old Specialized Turbo foldable tire I had. The sidewall latex dried out and ceased to hold the kevlar/cotton sidewall fibers together and they let go at the bead, causing the innertube to blow out of the sidewall at the section where the bead separated from the sidewall.
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Old 09-24-19, 05:17 PM
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Keep ridin' 'em, but wear an extra tire around your neck like Stu.

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Old 09-24-19, 05:23 PM
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Same thing is happening to my ears... I'd take them off and hold up to a light to see how thin they are compared to the other side. And trim those unsightly things, lol.
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Old 09-24-19, 06:01 PM
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They look like they are old and the fabric has decayed. I've seen this happen to cotton tires many times. Can also affect rayon blend, etc. IMO they are toast and you should not ride them.

Here in lala land fabric can decay pretty quickly, I suppose from a combination of heat and ozone. Rubber goes south quickly too. I have to carefully consider sidewall fabric choices for this reason, especially for bikes that aren't ridden often.
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Old 09-24-19, 06:07 PM
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I've had that a couple of decades ago, rode them anyway. I think an electric facial trimmer took care of it.

Perhaps DD leans left, he just flipped his wheel around to keep us off guard.
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Old 09-24-19, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
They look like they are old and the fabric has decayed. I've seen this happen to cotton tires many times. Can also affect rayon blend, etc. IMO they are toast and you should not ride them.

Here in lala land fabric can decay pretty quickly, I suppose from a combination of heat and ozone. Rubber goes south quickly too. I have to carefully consider sidewall fabric choices for this reason, especially for bikes that aren't ridden often.
Agreed.

I would retire them.
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Old 09-24-19, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
IIRC, one of the issues with the extra-light version of the Grand Bois Hetre tire was that the tread was relatively thick up to the edges, yet the sidewall was very flexible. This difference in flexibility caused tire failures at the sidewall near the tread. I kinda wonder if something similar is happening here. The tread has become a little firmer with age, and it's forcing the sidewall to flex a little extra at that junction, causing the fabric to fray.
Hmmm, this has me thinking. You know, when I first started riding on these tires (same wheelset, used on two different bikes) I would hear a funny noise and now I wonder if it is the tires flexing and popping threads. The noise is hard to describe - kind of a creaking noise, but not quite - but it's obvious the noise is coming from the wheel, and I think it's the tire flexing.

I will see how it continues to react on my short 2-mile school commute, but I don't think I'll take this bike too far from home. If a tire fails, I'll be walking home for sure!

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Chombi1
I think you have defective tires where the sidewall rubber is too thin to retain the sidewall pliers. Those fibers extend down to the bead and if enough of them let go, your bead could separate from your sidewall. Similar happened to an old Specialized Turbo foldable tire I had. The sidewall latex dried out and ceased to hold the kevlar/cotton sidewall fibers together and they let go at the bead, causing the innertube to blow out of the sidewall at the section where the bead separated from the sidewall.
I've seen that happen once or twice - happened to me, too, but in my case there was no indication of prior fraying. The bead just failed one day when I was using a nylon tire lever on it when repairing a flat. Luckily I was home at the time!

In my case, I note none of the ends are fraying at the rim - just the tread. If they go, I believe they will at the tread.

These tires were nice and supple when I put them on. Running at 105psi recommended max. Oh, well...

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by clubman
I've had that a couple of decades ago, rode them anyway. I think an electric facial trimmer took care of it.

Perhaps DD leans left, he just flipped his wheel around to keep us off guard.
I was thinking of getting up to speed and then leaning down with an X-Acto blade and letting it slice them off while riding

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 06:58 PM
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Old 09-24-19, 07:04 PM
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that's the noise exactly - back before I knew any better, I once re-used a set of old and badly worn armadillos that should have been trashed long beforehand. The sound is like spokes settling in after a fresh truing, or maybe like the creaking of loosely-clamped saddle rails - but quieter.

I spent an entire afternoon's riding puzzling over what could be not tight enough, until the entire sidewall blew out spectacularly. Lightbulb went off when I saw all the frayed plies ...

Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
Hmmm, this has me thinking. You know, when I first started riding on these tires (same wheelset, used on two different bikes) I would hear a funny noise and now I wonder if it is the tires flexing and popping threads. The noise is hard to describe - kind of a creaking noise, but not quite - but it's obvious the noise is coming from the wheel, and I think it's the tire flexing.

I will see how it continues to react on my short 2-mile school commute, but I don't think I'll take this bike too far from home. If a tire fails, I'll be walking home for sure!

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 07:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Salamandrine
They look like they are old and the fabric has decayed. I've seen this happen to cotton tires many times. Can also affect rayon blend, etc. IMO they are toast and you should not ride them.
The tires are older, but they were in super shape and supple when mounted. Heck, with the exception of the fibers popping, the sidewalls are in awesome shape - and the tread is wearing at a low rate, too. The fuzz has me worried about long-term viability, certainly, but I've seen dried-out sidewalls before and that isn't at all the case here. It seems more a design flaw as suggested earlier in the thread.

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by niliraga
...or maybe like the creaking of loosely-clamped saddle rails - but quieter.
That's exactly what it sounds like! Yeah, okay, I'd better take them off or else suffer an explosion and possible damage to metal, cloth, and skin

Thanks!

DD
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Old 09-24-19, 07:15 PM
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Take the bike outside, slowly rotate the tire as you hold a butane lighter flame to the fibers. After they're burned off, go for a ride.
Problem solved.
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Old 09-24-19, 07:31 PM
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I'm just not a fan of the idea of using old rubber.

I ought to see if my old Specialized Ground Controls are out in the garage.

These Ground Controls came on my Stumpjumper- I thought they were pretty cool. The looked and felt kinda dry to me, but I rode them all over the place- I mean, a tire is a tire- right? So one day, I'm riding over to my brother in law's house- I hear this "flip-flip-flip-flip" sound, and I see what I think is a leaf stuck to my tire, and the noise is the "leaf" hitting the fork leg. I stop and realize the sidewall had separated and a big ol' "thumb" of innertube was sticking out between the strands and the "thumb" of innertube was striking the fork leg on every rotation. Because I thought these Ground Controls were something really special, I tried patching up the interior of the tire with patches and even a big patch of innertube- but it kept separating once I got the tire up to pressure.

I don't really know what could have happened- probably just a catastrophic bang flat, but no idea if it would have put me on the ground or whatever. A few years later, I had a set of Specialized "Touring" and "Expedition" tires that looked and felt about the same way. As plush as those tires felt- I knew riding on them was not a wise thing to do.
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Old 09-24-19, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Drillium Dude
I've been riding on these tires since mid-August and they've been progressively popping fibers on the sidewall between the sidewall and the tread. Strangely enough, the majority of the popping fibers are on the driveside both front and rear.

A couple pics:





Would you continue to ride these? In my estimation, at some point enough fibers will have let go to the point the rest fail - and I can foresee this being a quick, catastrophic type of failure. While currently the wheels/tires have been shifted to my short-ride (school) bike, I would like to know what people think. I'll keep using them if I'm overreacting, but will retire them if the consensus is that they're dangerous to use.

DD
Much as I hate to say it, these tires are dried out on one side and are weak therefore they gotta go. The tread and one side may be brand new but the point is, one side is too weak to ride. It's quite painful to fall at speed so either ride slowly or replace the tires, your choice.
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