non-fixie 

A Nöll Pro?

Yes. Apparently.

I was at a swap meet this morning and it was sitting there. For €40.

I had no idea what frame it was, but it looked rather nice. And it was my size. And it was cheap. And it included a Stronglight headset and a smooth bottom bracket of unknown origin (to me anyway).

I had promised mrs non-fixie not to buy anymore bikes or frames

But, hey, you know.

So, this is what I came home with:



















Luckily mrs non-fixie has been immersed in the C&V scene long enough to understand.

What I've found out about Nöll so far:

Achim Nöll has been building frames in Fulda, Germany, since the early eighties, and he's still at it. Here's his website:

Nöll Fahrradbau - www.noellfahrradbau.de

Judging by the decal style, which seems to have changed in the early nineties, this is a late eighties frame.

The Mannesmann frame decal is intriguing. I know Mannesmann supplied the steel for Oria tubing, but beyond that it's a bit fuzzy. Some internet sources say that 34CrMo4 is the stuff Columbus SLX is made of. Anyway, I haven't weighed the frame yet, but it feels and sounds light. FWIW.

I have most of a Veloce gruppo somewhere, that might look nice.

Anyone else out there got a Nöll? Or know about the brand?

non-fixie 

Just removed the BB, and this is what came out. Italian!

thinktubes 

Cool "everything" on this one.

non-fixie 

It looks to be the house color: "nöll blau":



And I found a pic online of what looks to be the same frame, albeit with the later style decals:

non-fixie 

Some measurements:

Seat tube: 61cm (C-T)
Top tube: 56cm (C-C)
Chain stays: ~ 43.5cm

Interesting. The short TT should suit me well. The long chain stays are surprising.

Oh, and the rear width is 126mm.

crank_addict

Never heard of Noll but appears a nice find. Condition looks great.

Curious of the top line frame tubing from Mannesmann.

The Mannesmann Group had a long and diverse history, other markets outside of cycling. Involved with and or owned other European cycling related manufactures, possibly at one time acquired Sachs and then spun off to Sram.

Lascauxcaveman 

Red bikes may be faster, but bikes with umlauts are more "metal." \^^/

Chombi1 

I was going to say too that the umlaut on the name makes it really cool!
The lugs look very nice. Is the tubing OS?.
Quite a large frame, hope it fits you perfectly. Curious to know how this cool, understated German frame rides...

xiaoman1 

That's really a beauty and the price was super good...stack height on the for seems rather....
Good luck with the build, Ben

non-fixie 

Thanks, Ben. WRT the stack height: this is a "trick" also employed by Giant, on the frames with the forward-sloping top tubes, which they introduced in the late eighties. Apparently to accommodate bars at a level that could be used by others than twenty-something professional riders.

My Cadex 980C:



Peloton Superlite, which was a little too big for me, and went to a taller coworker:

non-fixie 

I made a quick mock-up based on my measurements, to see what it would look like. Looks promising, but what keeps puzzling me is the chain stay length. I'd have expected a shorter wheelbase on a model called "Pro".

Thoughts?

martl

Nöll was quite prominent as a framebuilder for some time, his name popped up frequently in the magazines like "Tour". Very good quality stuff and wasn't cheap in his time. You might actually get more info whewn you contact him, he may have kept his order books around.
AFAIK he did custom jobs so the long rear half may be at first owners request.

Nice find, although the powder coat does not much for the aesthetics i daresay (its probably original though).

Mannesmann as the inventor of the seamless tube did supply bicycle tubesets for a long time, also Oria used them as basis for their custom products like Gilco, i heard. 34xxx was their best and it is claimed it was stronger than a similar Reynolds tube. Bit on the heavy side and it wasn't butted/thinned as much. I found a posting in a german bike forum where someone says his rather large Nöll (he had a 61,5) had a thinner tube brazed in the seattube to reinforce the BB section. (-> https://forum.tour-magazin.de/showth...04#post2804104)

TenGrainBread 

Yes, as @martl said I would guess the chainstays were a request on a custom order. Perhaps the original owner lived in a mountainous region and wanted more stability for descending, or something.

himespau 

Yeah, a little surprising given that it's called Pro and lacks eyelets/braze ons for rack or fenders.

non-fixie 

Thanks, @martl. Yes, the whole geometry has a made-to-measure feel to it: the short top tube, the extra steerer length and the "sportif" stays. I don't think I'll be able to fit more than 25mm tires, let alone mudguards. It was clearly meant as a go-fast bike.

I peeked into the BB shell (this frame is the same size, give or take a few mm), but I see no evidence of any reinforcements in any of the tubes.

I am not a fan of powder coating either, but I must say that it has held up rather well. None of the usual chips and scratches.

martl

i'd call the tire clearance very normal for the era. friend of mine who is a tall guy (6ft3 around) had a made to measure 62cm Altinger which could only run 20mm on the rear wheel, and it had to be deflated for removal.

non-fixie 

Yes, well, if I can fit a pair of decent 25mm tires I'll be perfectly happy.

That Altinger is very tight, but also very attractive! Thanks for bringing this maker to my attention, BTW. I wasn't aware of him, but followed your lead and ended op here. Wow!

martl

I spent at least 20 or 30k km combined over 10 years hanging on the rear wheel of that red Altinger pics show it after it had been sold and taken to the master himself for re-equipping, and a new set of decals. The website is wrong about the tubeset, it consists of a wild mix of tubes custom chosen for the size. First owner says it climbs excellently (can confirm that) and is super stiff.
Altinger is an insider legend, much like Rödl, his predecessor in spirit.

non-fixie 

On each occasion that was just before you passed it, right?

Can't seem to find anything on Rödl ...

non-fixie 

Other bikes and life in general have gotten in the way, but I've finally built up the Nöll with the bits at hand. Campagnolo Veloce "old" 9-speed brifters matched to a SRAM 7-speed cassette via a hubbub. First time I've tried that combo, and it works rather nicely. Other parts are labelled "105", "Dura Ace" and "Triplex".

I've actually managed to cram a pair of 28C tires in there, too.

Clyde1820

Very nice looking bike. Gotta love the color. Yum.

Wildwood 

Nice build from 'parts bin'.
Given the short tt (for 61cm st), stem looks a bit short for you.

With those 28s the ride should be cloud-like.

Agree with @Clyde1820 on great color.

Kuromori

34crmo4 is is a higher carbon version of 25crmo4, and equivalent to 4135 instead of 4130, but basically it's a relative of 4130. It's probably not what SLX was made of since Columbus tended to use 25crmo4 and modified alloys that added elements in order to cause precipitation hardening to counter the weakening of the steel when brazed.

non-fixie 

Thanks. I do try to keep my bin stocked with useful bits.

I am still playing with the saddle-bars-BB triangle. You'd think that after ten or so years I'd have worked that out, but no. Variables like saddle and bar shapes and angles, brake lever shapes and locations on the bars, crank lengths, Q factors and even my shape of the day keep messing up my readings.

I guess what I should do is ride all my bikes back-to-back on the same day in exactly the same configuration - and I have actually thought of doing that - but I don't see how I could make that work without a huge investment of time and money.

The tires are Vittoria Corsa Control Graphene 2.0's which I'd bought a while back out of curiosity. I rode them at ~80 PSI today, which felt like too few P's. I hope the weather allows a few more miles later this week, and I am looking forward to feeling them at 90 or a 100.

The color is a purple-ish blue, which I quite like, but is difficult to capture. Here's another try:

Wildwood 

I can relate to the issue of making the touch points feel more than 'good' on a bike, they have to feel 'right'. With many bikes in the collection, it is impractical (non-sensical?) to make them identical in components/positioning. Narrow bars, narrow Q are priorities for me. I always have to adjust to the wider stance on my triples. And pointy tipped aero hoods (on only 1 bike) are to be replaced next handlebar wrap. I think riding many bikes with varying components over the years often makes us more 'tolerant' with regard to minor geometry differences - at least for outings under 40miles.

As for the Vittorias, the supple sidewall is nice. I run 27/28s a bit under 100psi.