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Disc Brake Pads: the new toilet paper?

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Disc Brake Pads: the new toilet paper?

Old 11-26-20, 04:52 AM
  #26  
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Pulse braking is absolutely the way to go, even if it's high frequency pulses. You want to get the disc surface temperature up quickly, without heating the core of the disc or the pads too much. The idea is to maximise the temperature difference between the disc surface and the air to maximise heat transfer.away from the disc. But you need to fully release the brake between pulses so the pad also gets some air over it's surface.
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Old 11-26-20, 10:07 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie View Post
Pulse braking is absolutely the way to go, even if it's high frequency pulses. You want to get the disc surface temperature up quickly, without heating the core of the disc or the pads too much. The idea is to maximise the temperature difference between the disc surface and the air to maximise heat transfer.away from the disc. But you need to fully release the brake between pulses so the pad also gets some air over it's surface.
I do pulse/feather the brakes (albeit probably not enough). But I am aware that I ride the brakes more than many people (like the ones who go flying by me on downhills).
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Old 11-26-20, 11:00 AM
  #28  
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while "pulse braking" whatever that is may be the way to reduce pad wear, it increases the possibility of a skid which if it happens on the front wheel can take you down.

it's kind of like people who on older cars would downshift thru every gear to "save the brakes" while transferring the wear to clutch and transmission synchronizers.

Pads are cheap and pretty easy to change, buy several pairs and swap them in before they scar up those brake rotors. and do your braking before you roll into the turn.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA
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Old 11-26-20, 11:11 AM
  #29  
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2nd on Discobrake products.
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Old 11-26-20, 12:03 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by mpetry912 View Post
while "pulse braking" whatever that is may be the way to reduce pad wear, it increases the possibility of a skid which if it happens on the front wheel can take you down.
You don't have disc brakes, do you?

it's kind of like people who on older cars would downshift thru every gear to "save the brakes" while transferring the wear to clutch and transmission synchronizers.
Yup. Those kinds of people.

Pads are cheap
$25 a pair x 30 pairs = $750

and pretty easy to change,
There is that.

buy several pairs and swap them in before they scar up those brake rotors. and do your braking before you roll into the turn.
oh
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Old 11-26-20, 02:14 PM
  #31  
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Maybe you could get away with less expensive pads without the fins. Or aftermarket pads?
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Old 11-26-20, 02:17 PM
  #32  
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I'm going to give the discobrakes a shot. Maybe try it on the rear first.
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Old 11-26-20, 03:58 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
I'm going to give the discobrakes a shot. Maybe try it on the rear first.
I don't understand why you're so afraid of trying non finned pads. I'm sure it'll make zero difference, except on your wallet.
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Old 11-26-20, 04:58 PM
  #34  
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A bit on context:

Someone using disc brakes on their road cycle-touring machine in flat country might only touch the brakes a few times a day for traffic lights, or to pull into a cafe. very light brake use every few hundred KM and might easily do 6000+ km per set of pads. I know here in Australia, I've done long 300km+ day rides on my roadie but because there's so much open country, I might only touch my brakes a handful of times. I've done 150km bike rides that had 3 turns! The rest is open road, no lights, no hard curves, just gentle and meandering hills.

Vice versa, back home in Vancouver (BC) when I was mounting, I was climbing and descending 500-600m of vertical every lap which was only a few kilometers ... and using the brakes HARD for technical black/ double black mountain jank and chunder.

When someone spits out a number like "Same pads since 2015" just be mindful of context.

If you're a 95kg rider who is cautious on descents, that sounds about right. Why not try metallic pads and save yourself a bit of coin over the longterm?
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Old 11-26-20, 05:33 PM
  #35  
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thanks for all this. the metallic pads are much harder on the rotors, expecially if you're not doing hard braking that gets the pads up to temperature.

I'm running Swiss Stop pads on the ebike (and Hawk "street" pads on the Porsche) but I think I'll give the discotech pads a try at the next pit stop haha.

Mark Petry
Bainbridge Island, WA
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Old 11-26-20, 06:20 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Amt0571 View Post
I don't understand why you're so afraid of trying non finned pads. I'm sure it'll make zero difference, except on your wallet.
Brake fade.

On another bike, I have TRP hylex, which have fin-less pads, and I had such poor luck with them I put Shimano calipers on. (I only just did this so I don't have any real evidence that this is an improvement).
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Old 11-26-20, 07:38 PM
  #37  
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if you wear out the clutch from downshifting a car or a motorcycle, then you have crappy downshifting techniques and can't blip properly.

dragging your brakes all the way down the hill because you are afraid of losing your brakes and dying, unfortunately actually means that by dragging your brakes all the way down, you are really improving your chances of losing your brakes and dying.
But you know that, and I know that its something that some people can't ever get their head around and change. Also, hammering your front brake hard much harder than the rear dumps a lot of speed much faster than the rear, but again, its a technique thing that needs to be learned, and done over and over so that it becomes an instinct.

I'm another person that can get 10,000 kms out of a set of brake pads, fronts. Or more out of rears.
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Old 11-26-20, 11:33 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood View Post
A bit on context:

Someone using disc brakes on their road cycle-touring machine in flat country might only touch the brakes a few times a day for traffic lights, or to pull into a cafe. very light brake use every few hundred KM and might easily do 6000+ km per set of pads. I know here in Australia, I've done long 300km+ day rides on my roadie but because there's so much open country, I might only touch my brakes a handful of times. I've done 150km bike rides that had 3 turns! The rest is open road, no lights, no hard curves, just gentle and meandering hills.

Vice versa, back home in Vancouver (BC) when I was mounting, I was climbing and descending 500-600m of vertical every lap which was only a few kilometers ... and using the brakes HARD for technical black/ double black mountain jank and chunder.

When someone spits out a number like "Same pads since 2015" just be mindful of context.

If you're a 95kg rider who is cautious on descents, that sounds about right. Why not try metallic pads and save yourself a bit of coin over the longterm?
As the person who “spit out [that] number”, I am mindful of the context. I even stated what my context was. I live in mountains and ride in mountains and understand how to use my brakes to the best effect without over taxing them. I was merely pointing out that dragging brakes on downhills is going to wear out pads very quickly.
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Old 11-26-20, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
As the person who “spit out [that] number”, I am mindful of the context. I even stated what my context was. I live in mountains and ride in mountains and understand how to use my brakes to the best effect without over taxing them. I was merely pointing out that dragging brakes on downhills is going to wear out pads very quickly.
It wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular! Just reassuring the OP that maybe their circumstances are more intense than others' ... that's all.

But yeah learning to be comfortable with speed and using brakes also plays a massive role!
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Old 11-26-20, 11:54 PM
  #40  
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At first, I was also changing quite often but after a year I was able to practice feathering so when braking I try to go smoothly as possible.
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Old 11-27-20, 08:01 AM
  #41  
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I'm the other person getting great pad life out of my BB7 pads on a heavily loaded touring bike riding in often mountainous areas, but I'm not a brake dragger and am comfortable at speed and judging when to control speed.

my actual proof--photos of my front pads after about 6000km of nearly all touring kilometers, so 4000 miles for you Imperialists.
and the link to the thread I put up to give some reference to folks wondering about pad life, but emphasizing my riding style and the importance of how one uses ones brakes that makes ALL the difference.
Quite literally, your mileage will vary.

https://www.bikeforums.net/touring/1...ld-vs-new.html
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Old 11-27-20, 08:07 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by cutdbeard View Post
At first, I was also changing quite often but after a year I was able to practice feathering so when braking I try to go smoothly as possible.
in my experience, feathering has nothing to do with it, but simply how much time the pads are spent rubbng against the rotors. If descending a hill you keep the brakes on moderately , dragging for lets say 20 secs, VS one hard application of 1 second to bring speed down, then let bike run, than another 1 second--its simple math--less pad to rotor contact of time, and less buildup of heat.

Hard braking, using stronger front brake application , for a short time, will greatly slow down bike, but when you let off, the heat will dissipate quickly, so next time you hammer it, there isnt much heat buildup because the air moving over the surfaces takes some of the heat away.

all braking systems follow this rule, doesnt matter rim or disc, or bicycle or car or motorcycle.
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Old 11-27-20, 08:15 AM
  #43  
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We don’t use up much pad on descents here, the hills only go up.
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Old 11-28-20, 01:40 AM
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The Shimano JO3A pads are really expensive. I get that you might get frustrated, if you go through several pairs a year. Shouldn't be necessary and all the banter over brake technique isn't very helpful either. Its akin to blaming the rider for poor brake performance, cos "he" didnt do the elaborate 15 step brake in procedure just right. Well, Blah! Brakes are there to control speed and is a crucial safety feature that should just work without endless babying and/or frequent, expensive replacements. - You simply shouldn't have to go faster than you want to, or are comfortable with, because of inadequate brakes.

To my knowledge Shimano has several different pads in the J (finned) and G (unfinned) series that would fit your calliper, and endless options in aftermarket rotors and pads too. Yo might want to try some semi metallic pads for longer service life. They may wear a bit more on the rotor, but at good (6 bolt?) rotor isnt expansive and last a long time anyway.

Last edited by Racing Dan; 11-28-20 at 01:58 AM.
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Old 11-28-20, 03:50 AM
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Brake fade.

On another bike, I have TRP hylex, which have fin-less pads, and I had such poor luck with them I put Shimano calipers on. (I only just did this so I don't have any real evidence that this is an improvement).
The rotors already does job of cooling the brake pads and quite effective at it.

The rotors act like heatsinks when the pads are in contact when pressing on the brakes. Even with finned brake pads, the rotor still does the majority of cooling having much bigger area and also sees higher airflow via spinning.

Automobile disc brakes can generate higher temperatures than bicycle disc brakes but you'll never see finned brake pads on automobiles.

I also drag my brakes on steep downhill descents because of heavy traffic but I never experienced brake fade and the pads are barely wearing. I have walmart-quality disc brakeset, really cheapset. Being a light rider probably helps a lot.

Last edited by cubewheels; 11-28-20 at 03:54 AM.
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Old 11-28-20, 06:01 AM
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Originally Posted by grizzly59 View Post
We don’t use up much pad on descents here, the hills only go up.
lordy, it really does feel that way so often doesn't it?
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Old 11-28-20, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by SapInMyBlood View Post
It wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular! Just reassuring the OP that maybe their circumstances are more intense than others' ... that's all.

But yeah learning to be comfortable with speed and using brakes also plays a massive role!
In my case, the traffic volume never gets below medium, not even at 6:00am in the morning!!

Even on steep -10 to -15% gradients, my downhill speeds rarely exceeds the traffic flow at 60 kph (37 mph). It's difficult and dangerous to descend a lot faster than the flow of traffic as the gaps between cars / lanes are also filled with motorcycles.

No choice but just deal with it. Not everyone will have ideal riding conditions, not even good scenery nor clean, fresh air!
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Old 11-30-20, 05:57 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by wgscott View Post
Brake fade.

On another bike, I have TRP hylex, which have fin-less pads, and I had such poor luck with them I put Shimano calipers on. (I only just did this so I don't have any real evidence that this is an improvement).
Only once in my life I have experienced an overheated brake. The rear rotor turned slightly blue and it had a burning smell. I had to replace pads and rotor as after that it would no longer brake properly (it wasn't really dangerous as I could brake, but it required more force than usual). I was using Avid brakes and pads when that happened.

I have descended that same trail lots of times after that, probably more than a hundred, as it's close to my house, and never again I had any issue with both Shimano and Discobrake pads.
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Old 11-30-20, 01:13 PM
  #49  
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One thing that I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned is that if you look at the cup of pads in the first post, a lot of them look like they're still perfectly good. It seems as if you're changing them way more often than necessary. What criteria are you using to determine when to change pads?

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Old 11-30-20, 05:25 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Bnystrom View Post
One thing that I'm surprised that nobody has mentioned is that if you look at the cup of pads in the first post, a lot of them look like they're still perfectly good. It seems as if you're changing them way more often than necessary. What criteria are you using to determine when to change pads?
Calipers. But you are right, which is one reason why I hoard them. What I have found is one side will often wear faster than the other, so I try to re-match them and put them on less critical bikes.
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