the sci guy 

Probably buying this bike this weekend. I had a set of Weinmann single pivot brakes on an older Raleigh at they were worthless. Can I expect better performance out of these? Or should I be prepared to pick up some replacement?
Obviously I won’t know more until I ride it but my experience has been dual pivot > single.

bOsscO

Probably worth replacing those pads with new ones before your test ride to help inform your decision.
Then if you do decide to replace/sell the calipers they have new pads!

madpogue 

Those Shimano 600s were among the best available at the time. Not really meaningful to compare them to Weinmanns on an old Raleigh, especially if it had steel rims. Condition/quality of the pads, as stated, is another major factor.

That said, if you do decide to replace them, you'll have no trouble finding someone to buy the 600s.

the sci guy 

yeah i'll replace the pads because i always put new pads on bikes i buy. i'm more concerned with the stopping power is all.

T-Mar

Those are 1984-1987 Shimano New 600EX brakes. They were standard equipment on the Cilo Aelle of this period. They were good brakes for their day but brake technology underwent a couple of serious performance leaps in the next few years. First, 1987 saw the introduction of SLR brakesets with greatly reduced system friction, allowing lighter return springs and providing a lighter feel with better modulation. SLR first appeared on Shimano New 105 in 1987 but the 600 level had to wait until 1988 with the release of 600 Ultegra. Then, in 1991 Shimano introduced dual pivot calipers on Dura-Ace and 600 Ultegra.

You don't mention the Weinmann models but these are almost certainly significantly better and can be improved even more with new pads. Still, they won't match the performance of dual pivot calipers of only a few years later.

SurferRosa

Cleaned up, they'll work absolutely great with a nice true wheel, good rim surface, good pads that are properly mounted, and a little htfu.

the sci guy 

aside from completism - it wouldn't be remiss throwing some modern tektros on there then

icemilkcoffee 

In the interest of completism, I would throw dual pivot Shimano 600 brakes on there.

the sci guy 

touché salesman

natterberry 

Compared to other brakes I’ve worked on, not a fan. I’ve personally found them harder to adjust than say a Campy Record from the same time period.

I prefer brake calipers with the spring mounting/retainer piece to be a fixed part of the brake bolt.

Classtime 

I put Ultegra 6500 calipers and SLR levers on my #1 Rider 1986 Allez and couldn't be happier with the brakes (unless they were 7700). I'm going through a phase right now. The last 18 months were spent mostly on mid 80s single pivots and now I'm taking a break.

DuraAcer

Well done Sir! I have also upgraded my Shimano 600-Tricolor to Dura Ace 7403 double Pivot and also upgraded my STIs to Claris 8-Speed and i could not be happier. Looks very good and not out of place like a lot of classic steelbikes with new components (imho). The shift- and brake-performance is incredible good with my RD-7402, absolutely crisp and precise.

I have the the black 105/Ultegra Shimano brake-pads and also the Kool-Stop Dura Type 2 (KS-RHDDL) , the KoolStop pads are much softer, so the modulation is immediately better and the silver polish looks much better then the black pads.


Best regards!

dddd

One thing that makes a big difference in how any caliper brake performs, leverage-wise, is the reach dimension of the frame, and the resultant position of the pads along the slots. With pad position in the upper range of the slots, the leverage should be ample.

So unless the leverage and braking power comes up short after installing fresh pads,I would keep these vintage calipers on board.

As for centering these, after the exact height of the stem has been settled on, I believe that the center bolt socket in front can provide some control of the centering while the mounting bolt is tensioned.

Kabuki12

I had those on a Trek 600 and they were great. I think with good pads they would be good. I have some Modolo pads on one of my bikes that are a fibrous brown color that stop better than anything I have tried. I can’t remember what they are called but they almost have a cork look to them, awesome!

SurferRosa

Sintered? 😬

the sci guy 

Thanks for the input everyone. I’m going to obviously try them out for a while and see how it goes, but was just trying to see what y’all thought since I’ve got basically no experience with them.

I may try to update the bike with some modern STI levers but it’s just a 6 speed and I didn’t think they made them in that size. Can I upgrade the cassette without needing new wheels?

no I don’t know what the rear spacing is yet nor what size wheels, etc. I’ll know more when I see it Sunday.

SurferRosa

A 6-speed cassette? If a 6-speed cluster, more likely, it's a freewheel, right?

And, yes, you can "upgrade" it. <wince>

dddd

Lots of bikes with 6s Shimano cassette hubs were put out in the later 80's, but won't handle more gears without at least a freehub body or wheel transplant.

Rear spacing would likely handle up to 7s.

tkamd73 

Nice bike, I’ve got a set of those calipers on one of my rides, they work well enough, that I’m not going through the bother of changing them out for dual pivots. Definitely change out the pads though. That said I do have a set of Shimano 105 dual pivots (1055) in good shape that I’ll trade you even up, for those 600 single pulls.
Tim

the sci guy 

good to know thanks. I figured it’d require a new wheel to accommodate the space for more than 6 or 7 speeds.

Anyone know if the same generation 600 (not tricolor) downtube shifters are friction only or can they be indexed?

madpogue 

That was the dawn of the SIS era; there was an SIS retrofit kit available for the "New 600 EX" gruppo. The rear derailleur is distinguished as labeled "Shimano 600 SIS". If the bike is from that time, it's more likely to have a freewheel rather than a cassette.

JohnDThompson 

They should be fine with new pads, but be prepared for more grip strength than modern dual-pivot calipers require.

"Sinterized?"

They have a reputation for chewing through rims.

The Golden Boy 

Those brakes are *nice* but... As T-Mar mentioned, SLR brakes of the next generation of 600 made braking much easier. If you squeeze the caliper in your hand, you can feel the resistance of the springs- and before your pads ever make contact with the rim, you have to overcome that spring resistance. If you're used to dual pivot brakes, they'll already have some form of SLR incorporated into the design as well as the leverage of the pivots, so they won't work quite as nicely as more modern brakes. BUT... those shiny 600 brakes look really nice and they work better than older brakes and are significantly smoother in their action. I've got a set set aside for that "someday" project.

For those of you that know such things (ahem T-Mar ), when did thrust bearings replace bushings in 600 calipers?

I used to find the tri-color stuff really attractive, but I really like the shiny stuff (6400 stuff is still really nice). I'd find the nicest, shiny, modern-y stuff and go with that. When I rebuilt my Trek 400 Elance, I went with 6400 braking- and put dual pivots in the front and single in the rear- just because I thought it was cute.

I realize you said "more likely" but don't forget about Uniglide- I've got a 6 sp Uniglide cassette on my 78 Trek- I'm kinda stuck with it until I decide to replace the wheels... but they work pretty nice. Plus, isn't it possible to build a 6 speed cassette on a free hub with the proper amount of spacers?

Road Fan

My experience is that they are terrible - squishy flex, poor pads, and very difficult to center and make to remain centered. I find Campy NR calipers and especially Campy dual pivot calipers will eat them for lunch.

Kabuki12

I think so , they are not rubber like the rest of my bikes. They stop really well and take getting used to. If you grab a fist full you will stop like right now!